Art as crap for the sheep

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

the psychology of bidding is well understood. just not by you.

There is no psychology of bidding in blind bidding venues.

ebay isn't a blind bidding venue.

Yes it is.

nope. it's definitely *not* a blind bidding venue.

you are clueless.


You do not know who you are bidding against. At a live
auction you do.

nonsense.

Both typical of your style of denying without providing any basis of
denial and completely wrong.

what's to provide? it's flat out wrong.

if someone said the moon is made of cheese and someone else says that's
nonsense, proof need not be given since it's clearly nonsense.

of course you know who you're bidding against. just click the bid
history and look.

Idiot.

ad hominem. it's all you can do when shown to be wrong.

That tells you who *has* bid, not who will bid.

same as a live auction. imagine that.

bid history also tells you there's interest and how much there is,
which is what drives up the price. there's also closed auctions to
examine to see what the likely ending price will be.

Are you so
stupid

ad hominem again.

that you think that someone who has bid is the person you have
to prepare some psychological bidding style against to defeat? You
are not aware that someone else can come in and bid?

whoosh.

Some bidders have multiple identities so you can't look up their
buying history to see they've paid for other, similar, items.

you continue to demonstrate your ignorance.

ebay has long obscured the actual user id so you can't look at what
they've bid on, whether or not they have multiple ids, something which
is prohibited.

all you can do is see in which categories they bid and at what point in
the auction they bid, which tells you if you're up against a sniper or
not.

While the practice is against eBay's rules, there are auction listings
where the seller has a friend or another identity place an opening bid
or additional bids to drive the price up. That seller is one that
hopes that you are so stupid that you will come up with some "bidding
psychology" to beat out that bogus bidder.

shill bidding is also prohibited, but you're making my point that early
bidding drives up the price.

shilling can also backfire, because if the item doesn't sell, the shill
is on the hook to buy it and the seller has to pay fees.

the current price is also known, just like in a live auction.

I thought you were talking about sniping? The sniper's max bid is not
known.

i didn't say the maximum bid was known. more of your twisting.

i said the *current* price is known.

The current price shown is not even always the price the leading
bidder has bid. It is an increment above the previous price. The
actual bid may have been higher.

that doesn't matter.

nevertheless, it's often possible to estimate (and sometimes rather
accurately) what the maximum bid is by looking at the bid history,
which is useful information for deciding whether or not to snipe and
for how much.

the difference between ebay and a live auction is that an ebay has a
hard end time, after which no more bids are accepted, while a live
auction will not end while there's active bidding. it keeps going.

That's one difference, but irrelative to this discussion.

it's not irrelevant at all.

it's the *very* reason why sniping works.

if ebay extended the auction any time a bid was placed, which some
other online auctions do, sniping would not work at all.

More
importantly, in a live auction you have the ability to see the
opposing bidder(s) and attempt to "read" them. Psychology can be used
at live auctions. You can, for example, attempt to appear to be
prepared to spend whatever it takes to buy the item by how you dress
and how you act physically. This can work to scare off bidders. You
can't do that in a blind auction like eBay.

so what?

ebay has its own techniques, one of which is sniping, something that
does not work in a live auction.

those who know how to play the ebay game can minimize what they pay for
items and maximize what their stuff sells for. it's that simple.


you're confusing being able to outsnipe (which is impossible) with two
people sniping.

once you snipe, the game is over. there is no second chance. if someone
else sniped higher, you *cannot* bid again. you lost.

Yes, the other snipe outbid you because the other snipe used a higher
max bid.

nope. both bids were placed at effectively the same time. neither
person outbid the other because neither one knew there would be another
bid and how much it was for, although the assumption is that there will
be other snipers.

if someone else does snipe *and* it's higher (it isn't always), the
first person loses. there point is that there is *no* chance to outbid
once the bid was placed. that's how sniping works.

You run around in circles on the wrong path.

nope.

You're still doing it. You are one of those people who grab the wrong
end of the stick and lock onto to it like a pitbull.

projection.

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

People get carried away and bid to win rather than bid to get a bargin.
people get carried away... you can see it happen in real auctions and even
those on TV such as storage lockers....

that's why bidding early is a bad idea if the goal is to get the lowest
price.

Not everyone can stay up 24/7.

there's no need to stay up 24/7 to snipe.

bidding early leads to bidding wars, which drives up the price.

Which is why you bid teh price maxium you want to pay.

and do so within the last few seconds, aka sniping.

if you bid early, you will end up paying more than you otherwise would
have.

you're once again talking about things you know nothing about.

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

People get carried away and bid to win rather than bid to get a
bargin.
people get carried away... you can see it happen in real auctions and
even
those on TV such as storage lockers....

that's why bidding early is a bad idea if the goal is to get the lowest
price.

Not everyone can stay up 24/7.

there's no need to stay up 24/7 to snipe.

As I said you set yuor maxium bid and go to bed, no snipping needed.

then you'll end up paying more than you would otherwise or not get the
item at all because it ended higher than your maximum bid.

bidding early leads to bidding wars, which drives up the price.

Which is why you bid teh price maxium you want to pay.

and do so within the last few seconds, aka sniping.

No that's automated bidding. How can I bid in the last few seconds if I'm
asleep ?

there are numerous sniping tools available.

yet another thing you don't know about how to use ebay.

Another thing you've got wrong.

nothing i wrote is wrong.

the fact is that you don't understand ebay at all.

lots of people don't and end up paying more than they need to for items
or don't get the stuff they want because they foolishly drove the price
up.

it's easy to pick these people out, and in some cases it means not
bothering with a particular listing because it's not going to end at a
reasonable price, all because of idiot bidders.

if you bid early, you will end up paying more than you otherwise would
have.

Not necessariy depends on who else is bidding.

yes necessarily.

bidding early spawns a bidding war, which drives up the price. sellers
like that, as does ebay, but buyers do not.

if you bid late, that can't happen because there's no time for it to
happen, which is why the final price will be lower than it would have
been otherwise.

it's very simple.

you're once again talking about things you know nothing about.

The reason you've snipped most of teh post because if proves once again you know sweet **** all.

nope. the reason i snipped it is because i'd only be repeating myself.

once again, bidding early drives up the price, which as a buyer is
*not* what you want. the way to pay the least for items is by sniping.

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:


Not everyone can stay up 24/7.

there's no need to stay up 24/7 to snipe.

As I said you set yuor maxium bid and go to bed, no snipping needed.

then you'll end up paying more than you would otherwise.

no you wouldn't.

wrong

or not get the
item at all because it ended higher than your maximum bid.

Good, my max bid is what it is, why should I pay more than I want to for an
item. That's the idea behind maximium, it's the most you're willing to pay
for the item.

nobody said otherwise.

the point is to bid *late*, not early.

bidding early leads to bidding wars, which drives up the price.

Which is why you bid teh price maxium you want to pay.

and do so within the last few seconds, aka sniping.

No that's automated bidding. How can I bid in the last few seconds if I'm
asleep ?

there are numerous sniping tools available.

yes, but they aren't much use, they just make you think they are useful.

wrong

They encourage you to spend more than you want to at best at worst they could
be havesting yuor data for all sorts of reasons from harmless ads to key
loggers ready for banking details which are likely to be used when using
ebay.

nonsense.

A fool and his money are easily parted aren't they.

you being the prime example of that.

the fact is that you don't understand ebay at all.

lots of people don't and end up paying more than they need to for items
or don't get the stuff they want because they foolishly drove the price
up.

And some get conned by so called sniping software.

nonsense and irrelevant anyway.

it's easy to pick these people out, and in some cases it means not
bothering with a particular listing because it's not going to end at a
reasonable price, all because of idiot bidders.

Then you still won't get it will you.

i didn't say it's a guarantee.

i said you'll pay less than you otherwise would have.

if you bid early, you will end up paying more than you otherwise would
have.

Not necessariy depends on who else is bidding.

yes necessarily.

if you don;t bid you won't win anything.

you don't say!

bidding early spawns a bidding war, which drives up the price. sellers
like that, as does ebay, but buyers do not.

That's how actions work if yuo don;t like that method of actions use dutch
actions.

you're still not getting it.

if you bid late, that can't happen because there's no time for it to
happen, which is why the final price will be lower than it would have
been otherwise.

it's very simple.

a vary crap and doesnt work.

wrong. it works well.

Items don;t get cheaper on ebay just because you don;t bid on it.

they sell for less, which is what a buyer wants.

you're once again talking about things you know nothing about.

The reason you've snipped most of teh post because if proves once again
you know sweet **** all.

nope. the reason i snipped it is because i'd only be repeating myself.

What about all the limks that advise using teh ebay bidding system rathe
rthan those 3rd party sniupes which dont work as well as ebays build in
system.

what about them?

sellers want you to bid early because that drives up the price. ebay
wants you to bid early because they make more money when the final
price is higher.

buyers prefer lower prices.

bidding early results in higher prices.

smart buyers do not bid early.

once again, bidding early drives up the price, which as a buyer is
*not* what you want. the way to pay the least for items is by sniping.

No it isn't which is why relatively few people use them, and why you don't
see everyting selling for a few $s
ebay has become a sellers market not a buyers one.

whoosh.

On 1/27/2016 5:45 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 January 2016 19:18:06 UTC, nospam wrote:
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

People get carried away and bid to win rather than bid to get a bargin.
people get carried away... you can see it happen in real auctions and even
those on TV such as storage lockers....

that's why bidding early is a bad idea if the goal is to get the lowest
price.

Not everyone can stay up 24/7.

there's no need to stay up 24/7 to snipe.

As I said you set yuor maxium bid and go to bed, no snipping needed.



bidding early leads to bidding wars, which drives up the price.

Which is why you bid teh price maxium you want to pay.

and do so within the last few seconds, aka sniping.

No that's automated bidding. How can I bid in the last few seconds if I'm asleep ?

http://1912pike.com/recipe-sparkling-espresso-with-mint/



--
PeterN

On 1/27/2016 6:33 AM, nospam wrote:
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

People get carried away and bid to win rather than bid to get a
bargin.
people get carried away... you can see it happen in real auctions and
even
those on TV such as storage lockers....

that's why bidding early is a bad idea if the goal is to get the lowest
price.

Not everyone can stay up 24/7.

there's no need to stay up 24/7 to snipe.

As I said you set yuor maxium bid and go to bed, no snipping needed.

then you'll end up paying more than you would otherwise or not get the
item at all because it ended higher than your maximum bid.

bidding early leads to bidding wars, which drives up the price.

Which is why you bid teh price maxium you want to pay.

and do so within the last few seconds, aka sniping.

No that's automated bidding. How can I bid in the last few seconds if I'm
asleep ?

there are numerous sniping tools available.

yet another thing you don't know about how to use ebay.

Another thing you've got wrong.

nothing i wrote is wrong.

the fact is that you don't understand ebay at all.

lots of people don't and end up paying more than they need to for items
or don't get the stuff they want because they foolishly drove the price
up.

it's easy to pick these people out, and in some cases it means not
bothering with a particular listing because it's not going to end at a
reasonable price, all because of idiot bidders.

if you bid early, you will end up paying more than you otherwise would
have.

Not necessariy depends on who else is bidding.

yes necessarily.

bidding early spawns a bidding war, which drives up the price. sellers
like that, as does ebay, but buyers do not.

if you bid late, that can't happen because there's no time for it to
happen, which is why the final price will be lower than it would have
been otherwise.

it's very simple.

you're once again talking about things you know nothing about.

The reason you've snipped most of teh post because if proves once again you know sweet **** all.

nope. the reason i snipped it is because i'd only be repeating myself.

once again, bidding early drives up the price, which as a buyer is
*not* what you want. the way to pay the least for items is by sniping.


Which you just did, again.
Oh well! Nobody had high expectations from you anyway.


--
PeterN

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:


Not everyone can stay up 24/7.

there's no need to stay up 24/7 to snipe.

As I said you set yuor maxium bid and go to bed, no snipping needed.

then you'll end up paying more than you would otherwise.

no you wouldn't.

wrong

One word doesn't prove you right.

there's no need for additional words.

it's flat out wrong.

I've never paid more than I want to by using the normal method of bidding.
I set my pbid and that;s that nothing else needs doing.

but you ended up paying more tha you would had you sniped.

by bidding early, other people bid it up.

As I said my last bid was for £250 I decided I didn;t want to pay more than
£250 and I didn'r I could have tried to but that would have meant going over
what I'd set. I woulf have needed to put in a bid for about £255 Yes I could
have felt great like you do for spending more money than I wanted to.
But I'm not an idiot, I don;t mind 'losing' a bid unlike you.

you clearly don't understand the process.

Unless of course you want to prove it. which you won't.

it's been proven time and time again.

or not get the
item at all because it ended higher than your maximum bid.

Good, my max bid is what it is, why should I pay more than I want to for
an
item. That's the idea behind maximium, it's the most you're willing to pay
for the item.

nobody said otherwise.

the point is to bid *late*, not early.

Why, bids are 24/7 and can last for 10 days.

to avoid a bidding war.

do try to keep up.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:


I've never paid more than I want to by using the normal method of bidding.
I set my pbid and that;s that nothing else needs doing.

but you ended up paying more tha you would had you sniped.

by bidding early, other people bid it up.

I guess you've never seen an auction ending with only a single bid
made.

what does that have to do with anything i said? not a thing.

Unfortunately, some of mine ended up that way. That single bid,
placed early, didn't attract people that bid it up. I didn't get
hurt, but I could have done better with multiple bids.

that's the whole point. multiple bids drives up the price.

it's in the best interest of the buyer to avoid that scenario.

sellers, on the other hand, want bidding wars because it drives up the
price.

On 01/27/2016 03:39 PM, nospam wrote:
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:


Not everyone can stay up 24/7.

there's no need to stay up 24/7 to snipe.

As I said you set yuor maxium bid and go to bed, no snipping needed.

then you'll end up paying more than you would otherwise.

no you wouldn't.

wrong

One word doesn't prove you right.

there's no need for additional words.

it's flat out wrong.

I've never paid more than I want to by using the normal method of bidding.
I set my pbid and that;s that nothing else needs doing.

but you ended up paying more tha you would had you sniped.

by bidding early, other people bid it up.

As I said my last bid was for £250 I decided I didn;t want to pay more than
£250 and I didn'r I could have tried to but that would have meant going over
what I'd set. I woulf have needed to put in a bid for about £255 Yes I could
have felt great like you do for spending more money than I wanted to.
But I'm not an idiot, I don;t mind 'losing' a bid unlike you.

you clearly don't understand the process.

Unless of course you want to prove it. which you won't.

it's been proven time and time again.

or not get the
item at all because it ended higher than your maximum bid.

Good, my max bid is what it is, why should I pay more than I want to for
an
item. That's the idea behind maximium, it's the most you're willing to pay
for the item.

nobody said otherwise.

the point is to bid *late*, not early.

Why, bids are 24/7 and can last for 10 days.

to avoid a bidding war.

do try to keep up.

You do know about "proxy bidding", right? Ebay uses proxy bidding. You
tell eBay the maximum you want to bid, and eBay places a bid that is
$0.10 (or $0.50, or $1.00, depending on the price already) over the
opening or current bid. The price is not your maximum bid, no one knows
what your maximum bid is or will be, and you will get the item for $0.10
(or $0.50, or $1.00) over the first losing bid.

The price did not get driven up by other bidders; those bidders would
have bid anyway. Each of them has their own maximum bid in mind. Proxy
bidding keeps the bid at $0.10 (or $0.50, or $1.00) over the highest
losing bid. The only maximum bid you will ever know is the first losing
bid amount.

Let's try an example:

The seller, nospam, has listed an Acme Widget for sale at $10.00. I
think that Acme Widget is worth $100, so I bid that as soon as I see the
listing. The bid on the Acme Widget is now $10.50, not $100.

Tony Cooper thinks that Acme Widget is worth $75.00 (Clearly, he doesn't
know how much an Acme Widget is worth!), so he bids $75.00. My bid (by
proxy) is now $76.00.

It doesn't matter if Tony or I had sniped the auction. As soon as the
Tony's maximum bid snipe comes in, my maximum bid snipe goes by proxy to
$1.00 more than his.

The exception to this is when a bidder comes in who absolutely has to
have that Acme Widget, like Whiskey-Dave. He originally bid $50, but
when he saw that someone else (both Tony and I) had bid $51 by proxy,
Whiskey-Dave just got carried away- "auction fever- and placed $5 bids
until he got the Acme Widget for twice what he originally intended to pay.

In the early days of eBay, "auction fever" was a very real thing. Now
there is so much stuff on eBay, that if the price is too rich for your
blood, you just move on to the next seller that has an Acme Widget for
sale. Unless that Acme Widget is actually a Canon FX camera or lens-
I'll run that bid sky-high!

(My apologies to Tony Cooper and Whiskey-Dave; I just needed some names,
and your's were the most previous in the thread!)



--
Ken Hart

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:



the point is to bid *late*, not early.

Why, bids are 24/7 and can last for 10 days.

to avoid a bidding war.

do try to keep up.

You do know about "proxy bidding", right?

sure do, and that's exactly why late bidding is advantageous.

Ebay uses proxy bidding. You
tell eBay the maximum you want to bid, and eBay places a bid that is
$0.10 (or $0.50, or $1.00, depending on the price already) over the
opening or current bid. The price is not your maximum bid, no one knows
what your maximum bid is or will be, and you will get the item for $0.10
(or $0.50, or $1.00) over the first losing bid.

The price did not get driven up by other bidders; those bidders would
have bid anyway. Each of them has their own maximum bid in mind. Proxy
bidding keeps the bid at $0.10 (or $0.50, or $1.00) over the highest
losing bid. The only maximum bid you will ever know is the first losing
bid amount.

that's only true if people bid once and once only.

that's not usually the case.

many times, people repeatedly bid trying to become the top bidder,
spawning a bidding war, and the price climbs.

Let's try an example:

yes, let's.

first yours:
The seller, nospam, has listed an Acme Widget for sale at $10.00. I
think that Acme Widget is worth $100, so I bid that as soon as I see the
listing. The bid on the Acme Widget is now $10.50, not $100.

Tony Cooper thinks that Acme Widget is worth $75.00 (Clearly, he doesn't
know how much an Acme Widget is worth!), so he bids $75.00. My bid (by
proxy) is now $76.00.

It doesn't matter if Tony or I had sniped the auction. As soon as the
Tony's maximum bid snipe comes in, my maximum bid snipe goes by proxy to
$1.00 more than his.

an auction with two bidders, each making one bid each, is not a good
example. in that particular situation, it doesn't matter who bid what
and when. the high bid wins.

that's not the usual case.

the more common situation is with multiple bidders, some of whom make
multiple bids.

for example, suppose there's an item with starting bid of $1, let's say
it's a lens for a camera. you decide it's worth $100, so you bid $100.
ebay proxies it at $1. you hope nobody else bids so you can score it
for a buck, but chances are one or more people will bid and it will end
at a more realistic price.

someone else sees the lens with a $1 bid and bids $10 and is instantly
outbid at $11. they decide that $20 would be a good deal. after all,
it's only just ten bucks more and it's a decent lens, so they bid $20
and they're instantly outbid at $21. someone else thinks the lens is
worth at least that much, so they decide to bid a third time, this time
$40, and they're instantly outbid at $41. now they're caught up in the
bidding frenzy. they do a little checking and see that similar lenses
have sold for $70-$100, so they bid $75 and they're instantly outbid at
$76. at that point, they give up.

four bids in a row, that did nothing but drive up the price.

in this contrived example no other bidders bid, so the auction ends and
you win the item for $76.

had you *not* bid early, the first person would have bid $10, and with
ebay proxying it, it would have been $1. they would never have made the
additional bids because they were the high bidder. you snipe at $100
with 3 seconds to go, giving them *no* chance whatsoever to make
another bid, and win the item for $11.

in the first case, you paid $76 and in the second case, you paid $11,
for the same item, with the only difference being early versus late
bidding.

that demonstrates the strategy, but it's not really a good example
because most auctions aren't just two bidders.

bidding wars usually involve several bidders and sometimes *many*
bidders, depending on the item.

here's an actual listing for a nikon 70-300mm lens, not one of their
better lenses, but a good example of a bidding war:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321982672841

22 bids but only 9 bidders. p***u won it, while o***t tried and gave
up. had p***u waited, o***t would have been the high bidder at $53.
then p***u could have sniped and won it for $54. instead, he paid $71
by bidding early.

here's another actual listing, this time a 70-300mm vr lens, a better
lens than the above one, which sold for a higher price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111877010363

that listing has 7 bids but just 2 bidders! had u***o waited, he'd have
won it for $345, as o***j's first bid was $340. had o***j waited, he'd
have won it at $355, as u***o's first bid was $350. by bidding early
(even though it was close to the end), they got into a bidding war and
o***j ended up paying $385 instead of $355.

The exception to this is when a bidder comes in who absolutely has to
have that Acme Widget, like Whiskey-Dave. He originally bid $50, but
when he saw that someone else (both Tony and I) had bid $51 by proxy,
Whiskey-Dave just got carried away- "auction fever- and placed $5 bids
until he got the Acme Widget for twice what he originally intended to pay.

In the early days of eBay, "auction fever" was a very real thing. Now
there is so much stuff on eBay, that if the price is too rich for your
blood, you just move on to the next seller that has an Acme Widget for
sale. Unless that Acme Widget is actually a Canon FX camera or lens-
I'll run that bid sky-high!

there is still *plenty* of auction fever on ebay and a whole lot of
stupid bidders, which is exactly why sniping is a smart move.