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Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer



 
 
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  #111  
Old January 15th 18, 01:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Eco Clean
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Posts: 61
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

- Susan Bugher wrote:

I don't like guessing either and there's no help file.


Hi Susan,

Thanks for providing these two free Windows tiler suggestions.

The Posterazor tiler is so much better that it's not worth spending much
(if any) more time on Posterizia, I think.

One of the web
pages does note "Use any photograph as background. Supported formats are
BMP, JPEG, PNG, EMF and GIF. Uou can even use just part of a photo!"


I think all three handle pretty much any image (I didn't test thoroughly):
1) Posterazor (best, easiest, fastest, most intuitive)
2) Rasterbator (it works & has alignment marks but use #1 above instead)
3) Posterizia (I'm sure it works but I didn't get it to work in 10 minutes)

I've played around a some more with Posteriza, When I selected a photo
and then clicked "more" the app showed me how the image fit on the paper
for the printer's current page selections and gave me options to rotate
or crop it.


I gave up on Posterizia after about 10 minutes, which is all I give a free
ware program when I already have one that works. If I didn't have one that
works, I wouldn't stop at just 10 minutes.

Testing freeware, when you already have one that works, is sort of like
looking at plucking an apple off the tree when you already have a bag full
of them in your arms.

It has to be really juicy to beat out what you've already picked.

Posterazor is juicier than Rasterbator, but not Posterizia, IMHO.

It looks to me as if the easiest way to print exact widths or lengths
could be by changing the margin. Lessee, the default is 10 mm and there
are 25.4 mm to an inch - I input a 50 mm "page margin" and, yes indeed
(smile), got the 2" margin I was trying for on the (single) printed
page. (A little work will be needed to calc the right margin setting for
a grid of pages)


I see where you're going with this, which is sort of to cut off the bad
parts of the apple and then it's just as good as the apple in the bag.


There are some differences between what you saw on your machine and what
I'm seeing here - dunno if it's because our Windows versions are
different or because the printers are different.


My installation logs are really like tape recordings of my interactions in
real time, so a lot could be dependent on the order I did things, and the
buttons I pressed. I should just find a good voice-recorder program and
then convert that to text, and that would be my installation log.

It aso seems to get
stuck on some things when it should be changing the display, something
you also noted.


Yes. I could change things, and it didn't trigger the display. So I had to
go back and forth. I could live with that if it worked but I never did get
it to change the symmetry (which you did with borders).

So - not totally glitch-free but easy to use and a think
most of the glitches are from things I'd normally not be doing.


I'd spend more time on this apple if I didn't already have two of them in
the bag, where Posterazor is far better (IMHO) than Posterizia and
Rasterbator.

Rastergator & Posterazor have the same five-step use model, but the
switches on Posterrazor are far better, mainly in that you can just tell it
the final output size (which is the most important thing) and it figures
out the rest, but also because it can handle inches and because it's much
faster, and because it has more intuitive settings.

The main difference between Rasterbator and Posterazor is that Rasterbator
asks for this cryptic "dot size" which I don't know what it's supposed to
mean since a 1mm dot never shows up anywhere when I tell it to be 1mm and
since it's far slower, I have to wonder what all the crunching is about.

Thank you very much for your suggestions.
1) Posterrazor is a keeper
2) Rasterbator is second fiddle to Posterazor
3) Posterizia might work for some people
  #112  
Old January 15th 18, 01:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Eco Clean
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Posts: 61
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

- Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Plethora of like companies out there.


Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for all your advice, which is greatly appreciated. We will be
sinking these poles in the ground deeply to withstand ferocious winds out
here, and they must last for years outdoors.

Up to now, this has been a purely pragmatic question but I'd like to ask a
theoretical question of you since you brought up the topic vectoring, which
I know little about.

I fully *agree* with you that if people print *directly* to the final
medium, then vectoring is probably critical for smooth edges on the borders
and lines, but what about the fonts?

Q: Aren't true-type fonts supposed to fix that ragged-edge problem?

In a similar theoretical vein, how do I know if the "tiling" program
Posterazor (which works fast & doesn't ask for a dot size) is doing
vectoring or rasterizing?
  #113  
Old January 15th 18, 04:41 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Eco Clean
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Posts: 61
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

- Eco Clean wrote:

Thank you very much for your suggestions.
1) Posterrazor is a keeper
2) Rasterbator is second fiddle to Posterazor
3) Posterizia might work for some people


Here's the current plan because we decided recently to stick with metal
signs for the longevity in high wind conditions.


The pragmatic approach we'll take is the following, since we have strong
winds, rain, and they need to last a long time.

1) We will design with PowerPoint because we don't see (yet) how the
complexity of a vector-graphics program such as Inkscape adds any value
when it can't tile so the tiler is what's rendering the images, and even
then, the X-acto knife is the final vector-graphics renderer.

2) PowerPoint will save to an image which we will tile using Susan's
suggested Posterazor which easily creates a 4-page PDF so that we don't
have to worry about guessing how to print all four corners of the desired
size as we would have to do with Irfanview or LibreOffice tiling
procedures.

3) Those four tiles will be printed to laser-hardened transparencies, and
taped together to make a stencil after cutting out with an X-acto knife and
then spray painting red on white and maybe adding a clear coat of some sort
on the outside. (Vinyl letters would be nice but at 50 cents each letter,
the cost is astronomical compared to spray paint.)

The hardest part likely will be the spray painting to get crisp edges.
  #114  
Old January 15th 18, 04:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Mayayana
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Posts: 1,514
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

"Eco Clean" wrote in message
news | - Jonathan N. Little wrote:
|
| Plethora of like companies out there.

| Thanks for all your advice, which is greatly appreciated. We will be
| sinking these poles in the ground deeply to withstand ferocious winds out
| here, and they must last for years outdoors.

Here's an informative link:

https://www.signs.com/price-calculator/

6 sheets custom vinyl lettering at 12x18, $135.

Are you familiar with commercial vinyl lettering?
It's created on a vinyl plotter, from a sheet
of adhesive vinyl. The letters are cut and then
you apply them from the sheet, so that spacing
is perfect.

Not exactly cheap, but you need to compare
it to the cost of printer ink, spray cans, etc.
I'm guessing that you're already looking at
sinking at least $50 into the project with that
method.

Another way to go about it would be to visit
a local sign shop and see if they'll give you a deal
on it. (I once did that, trading a 6-pack of
homebrew beer for a custom bumper sticker.)

| Up to now, this has been a purely pragmatic question but I'd like to ask a
| theoretical question of you since you brought up the topic vectoring,
which
| I know little about.
|
| I fully *agree* with you that if people print *directly* to the final
| medium, then vectoring is probably critical for smooth edges on the
borders
| and lines, but what about the fonts?
|
| Q: Aren't true-type fonts supposed to fix that ragged-edge problem?
|
It's an issue you have to take in context. There's
a difference between a bitmap enlarged and fonts
printed big in the first place. Remember the link
to software I posted early on? I tried that to make
sure it worked OK. I hadn't looked at it for years.
That uses the most basic Windows API function,
DrawText, to paint text to a DIB or device-independent
bitmap. I created a 600pt A in verdana, then saved
it as a BMP. All raster. The A printed out about 6" high
with perfectly straight edges.

Vector has advantages for flexible sizing of simple
shapes because it uses mathematical formulae to define
the image rather than a grid of color points. But that
doesn't necessarily mean vector is better in a
given usage. And there's also thefactor of getting used
to the software. If that works for you then do it.
If it doesn't, it really dosn't matter.

If you print a typical A of maybe 14 pixels and blow
it up you'll probably get something like an ink smudge.
Or if it's not anti-aliased you'll get a squiggly A. But
with reasonable resizing that's not an issue.

You're also not concerned about slightly fuzzy
edges here.

So don't worry about raster vs vector. Do what
works for the task. Maybe you're enjoying all this
exploring, but it seems to me that you're just wasting
time by going around in circles, looking at each
option over and over rather than systematically
narrowing down the best approach. Maybe it
makes sense for you to do all your exploring and then
come back if there are *specific* questions.


  #115  
Old January 15th 18, 08:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Big Al
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Posts: 9
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

On 01/15/2018 10:41 AM, Eco Clean wrote:
TheÂ*hardestÂ*partÂ*likelyÂ*willÂ*beÂ*theÂ*sprayÂ* paintingÂ*toÂ*getÂ*crispÂ*edges.

Probably. I bought # stencils from the office supply store that were
4x6 size card stock weight. But taping them to my trash can or mailbox
etc then spraying, it's amazing how much air leaks under the edges! I
don't care how much you think you're pushing down on them. I finally
bought the darn large reflector style numbers for the mailbox, but the
trash can can look bad for all it matters.

  #116  
Old January 15th 18, 10:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Eco Clean
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

- Big Al wrote:

The+AKA-hardest+AKA-part+AKA-likely+AKA-will+AKA-be+AKA-the+AKA-spray+AKA-painting+AKA-to+AKA-get+AKA-crisp+AKA-edges.

Probably. I bought # stencils from the office supply store that were
4x6 size card stock weight. But taping them to my trash can or mailbox
etc then spraying, it's amazing how much air leaks under the edges! I
don't care how much you think you're pushing down on them. I finally
bought the darn large reflector style numbers for the mailbox, but the
trash can can look bad for all it matters.


Agree with you that the stenciling will be the hardest part because the
stencil has to be held very tightly against the metal painted steel.

Cutting out the letters evenly will also be tedious.

If vinyl letters weren't 50 cents each, they'd be the way to go.
  #117  
Old January 15th 18, 10:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Eco Clean
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

- Mayayana wrote:

Here's an informative link:

https://www.signs.com/price-calculator/

6 sheets custom vinyl lettering at 12x18, $135.

Are you familiar with commercial vinyl lettering?
It's created on a vinyl plotter, from a sheet
of adhesive vinyl. The letters are cut and then
you apply them from the sheet, so that spacing
is perfect.

Not exactly cheap, but you need to compare
it to the cost of printer ink, spray cans, etc.
I'm guessing that you're already looking at
sinking at least $50 into the project with that
method.


Thanks again for your advice. We are set on steel or aluminum blanks,
mostly because we already have them drilled and painted and because they
will last forever, or as long as we can make them last in a very windy
environment.

We did have one sign where they applied vinyl letters. There were some
minor bubbles (about 1mm or less) in the letters but other than that,
they're fine in terms of quality. Even the small 7/8" letters came out fine
as did the punctuation.

Vinyl letters, in fact, on our own steel and aluminum blanks would be
perfect, if the price wasn't prohibitive, so, pricing is the *only* thing
stopping us from ordering vinyl letters for our custom signs.

The pricing at that web site is great for multiple quantities:
https://www.signs.com/price-calculator/

But for a single 12"x18" aluminum sign with no other options, it's $27 for
just one sign before tax and shipping.

What we really only want are the letters since we already have the blanks.
The letters, really, should be a few cents each, and not fifty cents each.
  #118  
Old January 15th 18, 10:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Eco Clean
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Posts: 61
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

- Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Okay, yes TTFs are vector...


Thanks for the clarifications as this vectoring thing, from a philosophical
perspective, is important if we print *directly* to the final medium.

Does that mean that TT fonts in PowerPoint should print directly to media
the same as those same TT fonts in Inkscape would print directly to media?

What about the borders though? I would think that the borders and lines in
PowerPoint would NOT be vectored, so I would think that the borders and
lines would print better directly to media with Inkscape.

Is that correct?

but if you output to raster which is what to
do when you create a bitmap JPG or BMP. You will get a ragged-edge
pixelated image ...


I see. So in the case of PowerPoint, if we're not printing directly to
media, then we are rasterizing the image when we save as an image format
that the tiler can read.

But isn't that the same situation with Inkscape since Inkscape doesn't do
tiling either so Inkscape has to output the file to an image format that
the tiler would accept.

...Posterazor or any other image tiler app uses which
will not remove the pixelation in the final output.


Yes. Once pixelated, always pixelated. I agree.

So the goal is not to save to an image format, and just tile out of the
creation program, right?

Yes you can mitigate
the issue but a the cost of increasingly large file sizes. And still the
output will not be as sharp as vector.


I'm all for vectors. That's not the issue.

What I seek is a vector program that can easily tile.

Maybe LibreOffice was it, but if that's the case, there are huge gradients
in this term "easy" as I couldn't get LibreOffice to tile as easily as the
tilers do it (e.g., Posterazor).

A vector graphic can be scaled without changing the file. You can scale
from postage stamp to tractor-trailer size and remain clear and sharp.
Note, what I am talking about is *graphic* designs, (curves, fills,
gradients), not photographs.


Yes. We all agree on the scaling.

The problem is theory and practice don't always meet at the home.

At home, the printer is 8.5x11 so when we want 12x18, we have to tile.

So vectors go to hell once we tile.

What we need is a free vector graphics program that easily tiles.
I tried two of them, neither of which tiled easily.

In order to move vector graphics from the realm of theory to the realm of
the real home, we'd need a free vector graphics program that easily tiled.

Which one do people recommend?
  #119  
Old January 15th 18, 10:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Big Al
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Posts: 9
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

On 01/15/2018 04:42 PM, Eco Clean wrote:
- Big Al wrote:

The+AKA-hardest+AKA-part+AKA-likely+AKA-will+AKA-be+AKA-the+AKA-spray+AKA-painting+AKA-to+AKA-get+AKA-crisp+AKA-edges.

Probably.Â* I bought # stencils from the office supply store that were
4x6 size card stock weight.Â* But taping them to my trash can or
mailbox etc then spraying, it's amazing how much air leaks under the
edges!Â* I don't care how much you think you're pushing down on them.
I finally bought the darn large reflector style numbers for the
mailbox, but the trash can can look bad for all it matters.


Agree with you that the stenciling will be the hardest part because the
stencil has to be held very tightly against the metal painted steel.

Cutting out the letters evenly will also be tedious.

If vinyl letters weren't 50 cents each, they'd be the way to go.

Yes, "712" on the mailbox was oh so much easier. And made the curb
appeal of the house much nicer of course.

  #120  
Old January 15th 18, 10:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital,alt.comp.freeware
Big Al
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Posts: 9
Default Make 12x18" signs at home on 8.5x11" B&W laser printer

On 01/15/2018 10:45 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
but if you output to raster which is what to do when you create a bitmap
JPG or BMP. You will get a ragged-edge pixelated image

But can't you lessen that by changing the dpi to something like 600
instead of the 72dpi most images are for screen resolution?


 




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