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#51
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: When in public spaces where you are lawfully present you have the right to photograph anything that is in plain view. When you are on private property, the property owner may set rules about the taking of photographs. I seem to the question of your subject line was debated at length some time ago and the conclusion that was eventually reached was that: 1. A Post Office is a space to which the public may have access but it is not a 'public space' in the strict sense of that term. 2. The post office and its premises are the subject of acts and regulations which define what should or should not be done. 3. Photographs may not be taken within a post office of the staff or the premises without the permission of the post master. I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. that might be true where you live but it isn't applicable to the usa, where the post to which you are replying is referring. for usa post offices: https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet.../html/info_005. html Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use may be allowed at the postmasterąs discretion provided that there is no disruption to Postal Service operations and that the pictures are taken from areas accessible to the public. In these cases, no prior permission is required from the Office of Rights and Permissions; however, no lighting or scaffolding may be set up, and no picture can depict any Postal Service employee, customer, security camera, or cover of mail (i.e., the exterior of a mailpiece, which would show customer name and address among other things). Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they determine that it is disruptive or there are potential security concerns. |
#52
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On Sat, 07 Jul 2018 22:27:53 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: When in public spaces where you are lawfully present you have the right to photograph anything that is in plain view. When you are on private property, the property owner may set rules about the taking of photographs. I seem to the question of your subject line was debated at length some time ago and the conclusion that was eventually reached was that: 1. A Post Office is a space to which the public may have access but it is not a 'public space' in the strict sense of that term. 2. The post office and its premises are the subject of acts and regulations which define what should or should not be done. 3. Photographs may not be taken within a post office of the staff or the premises without the permission of the post master. I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. that might be true where you live but it isn't applicable to the usa, where the post to which you are replying is referring. for usa post offices: https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet.../html/info_005. html Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use may be allowed at the postmasterÂąs discretion provided that there is no disruption to Postal Service operations and that the pictures are taken from areas accessible to the public. In these cases, no prior permission is required from the Office of Rights and Permissions; however, no lighting or scaffolding may be set up, and no picture can depict any Postal Service employee, customer, security camera, or cover of mail (i.e., the exterior of a mailpiece, which would show customer name and address among other things). Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they determine that it is disruptive or there are potential security concerns. You have confirmed most of what I have written, particularly when you wrote: "Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use may be allowed at the postmasterÂąs discretion ... Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they determine that it is disruptive or there are potential security concerns." i.e. the Postmaster has powers which are not relevant to 'public spaces' in the strict sense of that term. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#53
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: I seem to the question of your subject line was debated at length some time ago and the conclusion that was eventually reached was that: 1. A Post Office is a space to which the public may have access but it is not a 'public space' in the strict sense of that term. 2. The post office and its premises are the subject of acts and regulations which define what should or should not be done. 3. Photographs may not be taken within a post office of the staff or the premises without the permission of the post master. I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. that might be true where you live but it isn't applicable to the usa, where the post to which you are replying is referring. for usa post offices: https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet.../html/info_005. html Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use may be allowed at the postmaster1s discretion provided that there is no disruption to Postal Service operations and that the pictures are taken from areas accessible to the public. In these cases, no prior permission is required from the Office of Rights and Permissions; however, no lighting or scaffolding may be set up, and no picture can depict any Postal Service employee, customer, security camera, or cover of mail (i.e., the exterior of a mailpiece, which would show customer name and address among other things). Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they determine that it is disruptive or there are potential security concerns. You have confirmed most of what I have written, particularly when you wrote: "Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use may be allowed at the postmaster1s discretion ... Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they determine that it is disruptive or there are potential security concerns." not quite. you missed this key part: In these cases, no prior permission is required from the Office of Rights and Permissions; which contradicts your #3. basically, photos in the lobby area are not an issue as long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself, however, the postmaster can still tell you to leave. as i said, it may be different where you are, but the original query was about constitutional rights, therefore it's about the usa. |
#54
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 22:34:59 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: I seem to the question of your subject line was debated at length some time ago and the conclusion that was eventually reached was that: 1. A Post Office is a space to which the public may have access but it is not a 'public space' in the strict sense of that term. 2. The post office and its premises are the subject of acts and regulations which define what should or should not be done. 3. Photographs may not be taken within a post office of the staff or the premises without the permission of the post master. I expect someone will correct me if I am wrong. that might be true where you live but it isn't applicable to the usa, where the post to which you are replying is referring. for usa post offices: https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet.../html/info_005. html Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use may be allowed at the postmaster1s discretion provided that there is no disruption to Postal Service operations and that the pictures are taken from areas accessible to the public. In these cases, no prior permission is required from the Office of Rights and Permissions; however, no lighting or scaffolding may be set up, and no picture can depict any Postal Service employee, customer, security camera, or cover of mail (i.e., the exterior of a mailpiece, which would show customer name and address among other things). Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they determine that it is disruptive or there are potential security concerns. You have confirmed most of what I have written, particularly when you wrote: "Informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use may be allowed at the postmaster1s discretion ... Postmasters may restrict any and all photography if they determine that it is disruptive or there are potential security concerns." not quite. you missed this key part: In these cases, no prior permission is required from the Office of Rights and Permissions; which contradicts your #3. Not so. It is clear from the above that the Postmaster cannot grant permission to take photographs when there will be disruption to Postal Service operations or when the pictures are to be taken from areas not accessible to the public. That's when the "Office of Rights and Permissions" comes into the picture. This is quite a different enitity from the Postmaster. basically, photos in the lobby area are not an issue as long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself, however, the postmaster can still tell you to leave. That's another matter but it is still subject to the authority of the Postaster. as i said, it may be different where you are, but the original query was about constitutional rights, therefore it's about the usa. So too was my original response. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#55
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
In article ,
wrote: May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? Yes! There is a little know FEDERAL Law from the late 1800's that prohibits it and is a felony to photograph a postal facility. I'm a professional photographer for 17 years. Very few people know this and you can get into some very deep legal trouble if you are actually charged/ then you should be able to cite it. meanwhile, the us postal service says otherwise. |
#56
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
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#57
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a PostOffice?
On 8/6/2018 12:52 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On Aug 5, 2018, wrote (in ): On Friday, March 29, 2013 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote: Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? Excessive Nymshifter content snipped May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? Yes! There is a little know FEDERAL Law from the late 1800's that prohibits it and is a felony to photograph a postal facility. I'm a professional photographer for 17 years. That is nice, but you don’t seem to have a comprehensive knowledge of Federal Law. I hope your professional photography is better than your legal prowess. You might also have noticed that you are responding to a post from 2013, for which answers have been provided. Very few people know this and you can get into some very deep legal trouble if you are actually charged/ Your actual knowledge on this subject seems to be quite thin, especially as to what might constitute a felony. Who knows what that odd legal term “very deep legal trouble” might actually be. https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2008/html/pb22228/html/info_005.html Pertinent quote: "Here are a few examples of requests that must be directed to the Office of Rights and Permissions: A request to use the images of historic murals for commercial purposes. (Commercial uses may include reproductions of the murals in books or on posters, fine art prints, greeting cards, stationery, postcards, clothing, or other merchandising items such as magnets, coffee mugs, or other materials for resale.) A request that requires the set up of equipment aside from the camera itself (e.g., a tripod, ladder, lighting, or scaffolding). A request to use a high-resolution, professional-grade camera." I read your citations as being ambiguous. While casual images may be taken, unless they show images of personal, if the image is taken by a high resolution camera, (whatever that means,) or for use in making a fine art print, (whatever that means,) you need special permission..... If someone with proper authority asks you to stop and you don't, at the very minimum it could cost you a lot of time, and legal fees. ...and you should find this notice posted in the foyer of every USPS facility. https://about.usps.com/posters/pos7.pdf Well and clearly written: /End sarcastic tag "Photographs for News, Advertising, or Commercial Purposes Photographs for news purposes may be taken in" entrances, lobbies, foyers, corridors, or auditoriums when used for public meetings except where prohibited by official signs or Security Force personnel or other authorized personnel or a federal court order or rule. Other photographs may be taken only with the permission of the local Postmaster or installation head." But, I need permission to take a selfie with an iPhone. -- PeterN |
#58
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On Aug 6, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ): On 8/6/2018 12:52 AM, Savageduck wrote: On Aug 5, 2018, wrote (in ): On Friday, March 29, 2013 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote: Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? Excessive Nymshifter content snipped May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? Yes! There is a little know FEDERAL Law from the late 1800's that prohibits it and is a felony to photograph a postal facility. I'm a professional photographer for 17 years. That is nice, but you don’t seem to have a comprehensive knowledge of Federal Law. I hope your professional photography is better than your legal prowess. You might also have noticed that you are responding to a post from 2013, for which answers have been provided. Very few people know this and you can get into some very deep legal trouble if you are actually charged/ Your actual knowledge on this subject seems to be quite thin, especially as to what might constitute a felony. Who knows what that odd legal term “very deep legal trouble” might actually be. https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet.../info_005.html Pertinent quote: "Here are a few examples of requests that must be directed to the Office of Rights and Permissions: A request to use the images of historic murals for commercial purposes. (Commercial uses may include reproductions of the murals in books or on posters, fine art prints, greeting cards, stationery, postcards, clothing, or other merchandising items such as magnets, coffee mugs, or other materials for resale.) A request that requires the set up of equipment aside from the camera itself (e.g., a tripod, ladder, lighting, or scaffolding). A request to use a high-resolution, professional-grade camera." I read your citations as being ambiguous. What was ambiguous regarding obtaining permission for location type shoots at a USPS facility? I was not going to search through the Federal Code, as the USPS regulations regarding photography were much more accessible. There are similar permit requirements, rules, and ordinances established by most municipalities, and the State Park, or National Park Services. Try to engage in a professional location shoot almost anywhere in Manhattan, San Francisco, State regional Park, or any NP, and see how fast you will be confronted by a local authority. While casual images may be taken, unless they show images of personal, if the image is taken by a high resolution camera, (whatever that means,) or for use in making a fine art print, (whatever that means,) you need special permission..... If someone with proper authority asks you to stop and you don't, at the very minimum it could cost you a lot of time, and legal fees. At the very minimum you would have an educational discussion with the local postmaster or his/her deputy. I would believe that one’s acceptance of the local authority’s educational briefing would negate any further escalation leading to legal fees. That would take an attitude, and acceptance failure on the part of the individual potential rule violator. I have no doubt that there are individuals who would try to argue their point of view, and find themselves explaining their argument in a Court. The real ambiguity is the vague declaration of a potential 30 day jail sentence for any violation of any of the posted rules, or regulations, which as you well know means that there is no threat of a felony, just a misdemeanor. ...and you should find this notice posted in the foyer of every USPS facility. https://about.usps.com/posters/pos7.pdf Well and clearly written: /End sarcastic tag "Photographs for News, Advertising, or Commercial Purposes Photographs for news purposes may be taken in" entrances, lobbies, foyers, corridors, or auditoriums when used for public meetings except where prohibited by official signs or Security Force personnel or other authorized personnel or a federal court order or rule. Other photographs may be taken only with the permission of the local Postmaster or installation head." But, I need permission to take a selfie with an iPhone. The only “selfie” I have shot with my iPhone was the required photo for the *Mobile Passport* app. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#59
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a PostOffice?
On 8/6/2018 4:45 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Aug 6, 2018, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 8/6/2018 12:52 AM, Savageduck wrote: On Aug 5, 2018, wrote (in ): On Friday, March 29, 2013 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote: Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? Excessive Nymshifter content snipped May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? Yes! There is a little know FEDERAL Law from the late 1800's that prohibits it and is a felony to photograph a postal facility. I'm a professional photographer for 17 years. That is nice, but you don’t seem to have a comprehensive knowledge of Federal Law. I hope your professional photography is better than your legal prowess. You might also have noticed that you are responding to a post from 2013, for which answers have been provided. Very few people know this and you can get into some very deep legal trouble if you are actually charged/ Your actual knowledge on this subject seems to be quite thin, especially as to what might constitute a felony. Who knows what that odd legal term “very deep legal trouble” might actually be. https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet.../info_005.html Pertinent quote: "Here are a few examples of requests that must be directed to the Office of Rights and Permissions: A request to use the images of historic murals for commercial purposes. (Commercial uses may include reproductions of the murals in books or on posters, fine art prints, greeting cards, stationery, postcards, clothing, or other merchandising items such as magnets, coffee mugs, or other materials for resale.) A request that requires the set up of equipment aside from the camera itself (e.g., a tripod, ladder, lighting, or scaffolding). A request to use a high-resolution, professional-grade camera." I read your citations as being ambiguous. What was ambiguous regarding obtaining permission for location type shoots at a USPS facility? I was not going to search through the Federal Code, as the USPS regulations regarding photography were much more accessible. There are similar permit requirements, rules, and ordinances established by most municipalities, and the State Park, or National Park Services. Try to engage in a professional location shoot almost anywhere in Manhattan, San Francisco, State regional Park, or any NP, and see how fast you will be confronted by a local authority. While casual images may be taken, unless they show images of personal, if the image is taken by a high resolution camera, (whatever that means,) or for use in making a fine art print, (whatever that means,) you need special permission..... If someone with proper authority asks you to stop and you don't, at the very minimum it could cost you a lot of time, and legal fees. At the very minimum you would have an educational discussion with the local postmaster or his/her deputy. I would believe that one’s acceptance of the local authority’s educational briefing would negate any further escalation leading to legal fees. That would take an attitude, and acceptance failure on the part of the individual potential rule violator. I have no doubt that there are individuals who would try to argue their point of view, and find themselves explaining their argument in a Court. The real ambiguity is the vague declaration of a potential 30 day jail sentence for any violation of any of the posted rules, or regulations, which as you well know means that there is no threat of a felony, just a misdemeanor. I am not talking about felonies, unless things escalate. i am talking about ambiguity in the regulation. ...and you should find this notice posted in the foyer of every USPS facility. https://about.usps.com/posters/pos7.pdf Well and clearly written: /End sarcastic tag "Photographs for News, Advertising, or Commercial Purposes Photographs for news purposes may be taken in" entrances, lobbies, foyers, corridors, or auditoriums when used for public meetings except where prohibited by official signs or Security Force personnel or other authorized personnel or a federal court order or rule. Other photographs may be taken only with the permission of the local Postmaster or installation head." But, I need permission to take a selfie with an iPhone. The only “selfie” I have shot with my iPhone was the required photo for the *Mobile Passport* app. That's more selfies than I have ever taken, with the exception of a growth to send to my dermatologist. -- PeterN |
#60
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Is it really illegal to snap a picture of a clerk in a Post Office?
On Aug 6, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ): On 8/6/2018 4:45 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Aug 6, 2018, PeterN wrote (in article ): On 8/6/2018 12:52 AM, Savageduck wrote: On Aug 5, 2018, wrote (in ): On Friday, March 29, 2013 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote: Is it illegal to snap a photograph of a clerk inside a post office? Excessive Nymshifter content snipped May I ask: Legally, in California, in a Post Office, when nobody objects, is it against the law to snap a photograph or otherwise record the transaction? Yes! There is a little know FEDERAL Law from the late 1800's that prohibits it and is a felony to photograph a postal facility. I'm a professional photographer for 17 years. That is nice, but you don’t seem to have a comprehensive knowledge of Federal Law. I hope your professional photography is better than your legal prowess. You might also have noticed that you are responding to a post from 2013, for which answers have been provided. Very few people know this and you can get into some very deep legal trouble if you are actually charged/ Your actual knowledge on this subject seems to be quite thin, especially as to what might constitute a felony. Who knows what that odd legal term “very deep legal trouble” might actually be. https://about.usps.com/postal-bullet...ml/info_005.ht ml Pertinent quote: "Here are a few examples of requests that must be directed to the Office of Rights and Permissions: A request to use the images of historic murals for commercial purposes. (Commercial uses may include reproductions of the murals in books or on posters, fine art prints, greeting cards, stationery, postcards, clothing, or other merchandising items such as magnets, coffee mugs, or other materials for resale.) A request that requires the set up of equipment aside from the camera itself (e.g., a tripod, ladder, lighting, or scaffolding). A request to use a high-resolution, professional-grade camera." I read your citations as being ambiguous. What was ambiguous regarding obtaining permission for location type shoots at a USPS facility? I was not going to search through the Federal Code, as the USPS regulations regarding photography were much more accessible. There are similar permit requirements, rules, and ordinances established by most municipalities, and the State Park, or National Park Services. Try to engage in a professional location shoot almost anywhere in Manhattan, San Francisco, State regional Park, or any NP, and see how fast you will be confronted by a local authority. While casual images may be taken, unless they show images of personal, if the image is taken by a high resolution camera, (whatever that means,) or for use in making a fine art print, (whatever that means,) you need special permission..... If someone with proper authority asks you to stop and you don't, at the very minimum it could cost you a lot of time, and legal fees. At the very minimum you would have an educational discussion with the local postmaster or his/her deputy. I would believe that one’s acceptance of the local authority’s educational briefing would negate any further escalation leading to legal fees. That would take an attitude, and acceptance failure on the part of the individual potential rule violator. I have no doubt that there are individuals who would try to argue their point of view, and find themselves explaining their argument in a Court. The real ambiguity is the vague declaration of a potential 30 day jail sentence for any violation of any of the posted rules, or regulations, which as you well know means that there is no threat of a felony, just a misdemeanor. I am not talking about felonies, unless things escalate. i am talking about ambiguity in the regulation. ...and you should find this notice posted in the foyer of every USPS facility. https://about.usps.com/posters/pos7.pdf Well and clearly written: /End sarcastic tag "Photographs for News, Advertising, or Commercial Purposes Photographs for news purposes may be taken in" entrances, lobbies, foyers, corridors, or auditoriums when used for public meetings except where prohibited by official signs or Security Force personnel or other authorized personnel or a federal court order or rule. Other photographs may be taken only with the permission of the local Postmaster or installation head." But, I need permission to take a selfie with an iPhone. The only “selfie” I have shot with my iPhone was the required photo for the *Mobile Passport* app. That's more selfies than I have ever taken, with the exception of a growth to send to my dermatologist. If you are going to do any international flying *Mobile Passport* is a must have app. So far I have only used it twice, and I have plans for another trip in the New Year. https://mobilepassport.us The other thing any photographer doing any flying in the USA should have is TSA Pre, which will give you a KTN, or *Known Traveller Number*. That makes check-ins a breeze. https://www.tsa.gov/precheck -- Regards, Savageduck |
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