Anybody that thinks the D70 is not *fast*..

leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.

Alright, maybe 1/1000 is a bit slow. The D70 can do 1/8000 or 1/500 with
flash at best, so your 1/50,000 figure is a bit off.

and...

1: the wingtips were blurred.
2:did you notice that they were flash pictures?


a flash, at low power, is usually very short duration.
if the flash was 1/10,000, and the shutter was 1/2 second,
what effect would the shutter have on the exposure?

leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.

Alright, maybe 1/1000 is a bit slow. The D70 can do 1/8000 or 1/500 with
flash at best, so your 1/50,000 figure is a bit off.

and...

1: the wingtips were blurred.
2:did you notice that they were flash pictures?


a flash, at low power, is usually very short duration.
if the flash was 1/10,000, and the shutter was 1/2 second,
what effect would the shutter have on the exposure?

The only fact that I'm interested in is they are damn nice pics

Nice shooting

Mike



"leo" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

"Bob" wrote in message
news On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:52:49 GMT, Gary Eickmeier

wrote:



Phoenix wrote:
should take a look at what these guys are doing with their hummer
pictures.


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=9502722


http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=9232409

Freezing these hummers depends more on the electronic flash than
any
other factor.

Gary Eickmeier

Sure, but the camera has to scan it's sensor into memory at least as
fast!

Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.


Alright, maybe 1/1000 is a bit slow. The D70 can do 1/8000 or 1/500 with
flash at best, so your 1/50,000 figure is a bit off.

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can
manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.

Alright, maybe 1/1000 is a bit slow. The D70 can do 1/8000 or 1/500 with
flash at best, so your 1/50,000 figure is a bit off.

and...

1: the wingtips were blurred.
2:did you notice that they were flash pictures?


a flash, at low power, is usually very short duration.
if the flash was 1/10,000, and the shutter was 1/2 second,
what effect would the shutter have on the exposure?

That would depend on the level of ambient light, f stop, and how close the
flash was to the bird.

If the aperture was small enough, it might make the picture black, even with
the 1/2 sec shutter speed... again... depending on the level of ambient
light. If the flash was close enough to the bird the low power but 1/10,000
sec. flash time might be enough to still expose the bird and come close to
freezing the wingtips.

It also depends on where the wing tips are during exposure. At the top and
bottom of their stroke, they slow down to a stop... no? (or is their beat
more circular?)

Just my 2 cent ramblings...
D.B.

If the humming bird shots in question where taken with regular flash sync
with the D70 at 1/500th... I'm impressed. But let's not confuse the
duration of the flash pulse with the "speed" of the D70.

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can
manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.

Alright, maybe 1/1000 is a bit slow. The D70 can do 1/8000 or 1/500 with
flash at best, so your 1/50,000 figure is a bit off.

and...

1: the wingtips were blurred.
2:did you notice that they were flash pictures?


a flash, at low power, is usually very short duration.
if the flash was 1/10,000, and the shutter was 1/2 second,
what effect would the shutter have on the exposure?

um? I am talking the D70 can do at optimal 1/8000 sec. Perhaps under ideal
condition, without the need of flash, that the motion can be stopped. At
1/500. It's damn good, just a tiny bit blur, so I don't think it needs
1/50,000 of a sec as you calculated.

leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can
manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.

Alright, maybe 1/1000 is a bit slow. The D70 can do 1/8000 or 1/500 with
flash at best, so your 1/50,000 figure is a bit off.

and...

1: the wingtips were blurred.
2:did you notice that they were flash pictures?


a flash, at low power, is usually very short duration.
if the flash was 1/10,000, and the shutter was 1/2 second,
what effect would the shutter have on the exposure?

um? I am talking the D70 can do at optimal 1/8000 sec.

um? you do know that at 1/8000th,
the whole image is not being exposed at the same time?

check up on the traveling of focal plane curtains,
and the time the first shutter opens
and the time that the second shutter starts to close.


Perhaps under ideal
condition, without the need of flash, that the motion can be stopped. At
1/500. It's damn good, just a tiny bit blur, so I don't think it needs
1/50,000 of a sec as you calculated.

you are blithely assuming that the 1/500 was the controlling variable,
and the secret to the picture. think about the picture,
the numbers, and the problem.

again,
thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.


if the shutter was 1/500, and the flash was 1/10,000
and was 24 inches away from the subject...

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 04:14:20 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
wrote:



leo wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message
news

Sure, but the camera has to scan it's sensor into memory at least as fast!



Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can manage at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

It's just a test of person's skill, long lens and external flash (if needed)
of SLR over compact cameras.

He is thinking that the camera has to scan in the info from the CCD just
as fast as the flash duration, but I don't think that is right.

Gary Eickmeier

The sensor has to be scanned before the image is gone, so you would need to know
the persistance level of the sensor as well as the light duration. If the
persistance is too long you wouldn't be able to capture fast action or move the
camera, since you would get blurring as in a 1960s video camera!

You would also have to know how the sensor is scanned in what parallel mode,
since I discussed this a while back with other techs and we determined that it
isn't possible to series scan a 5m sensor in 1/8000 sec with present day
computers!

I imagine you could test this by spinning around and taking a strobe picture in
the dark with the strobe set to a known high speed.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:49:13 -0700, Crownfield wrote:

leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...
leo wrote:

Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can
manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.

Alright, maybe 1/1000 is a bit slow. The D70 can do 1/8000 or 1/500 with
flash at best, so your 1/50,000 figure is a bit off.

and...

1: the wingtips were blurred.
2:did you notice that they were flash pictures?


a flash, at low power, is usually very short duration.
if the flash was 1/10,000, and the shutter was 1/2 second,
what effect would the shutter have on the exposure?

um? I am talking the D70 can do at optimal 1/8000 sec.

um? you do know that at 1/8000th,
the whole image is not being exposed at the same time?

check up on the traveling of focal plane curtains,
and the time the first shutter opens
and the time that the second shutter starts to close.


Perhaps under ideal
condition, without the need of flash, that the motion can be stopped. At
1/500. It's damn good, just a tiny bit blur, so I don't think it needs
1/50,000 of a sec as you calculated.

you are blithely assuming that the 1/500 was the controlling variable,
and the secret to the picture. think about the picture,
the numbers, and the problem.

again,
thinking aloud...
at 80 bps amd 60mm motion, that is almost 5,000 mm per second.
1/1000 flash will give about 5mm motion during the exposure.
focal plane shuters can not do it.
hummers take about 1/50,000 flash to really freeze their wingtips.


if the shutter was 1/500, and the flash was 1/10,000
and was 24 inches away from the subject...

As far as I know, the max flash sync shutter speed is determined by the max
speed that the shutter is fully open, right? So in the D70, one curtain is open
and the other has not started up until you demand faster then 1/500 sec, then
the shutters become a traveling slit. I would also imagine that the 1/8000 limit
of the camera has to do with the max speed the camera can scan the sensor into
memory. We have to remember that at 1/500 or faster, the shutters move at
constant speed, only the slit-width-duration changes. Therefore the process
speed of the camera has to do with the minimum size of the shutter slit opening
as well. Too much math for me!!

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 04:14:20 GMT, Gary Eickmeier

wrote:



leo wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message
news

Sure, but the camera has to scan it's sensor into memory at least as
fast!



Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

It's just a test of person's skill, long lens and external flash (if
needed)
of SLR over compact cameras.

He is thinking that the camera has to scan in the info from the CCD just
as fast as the flash duration, but I don't think that is right.

Gary Eickmeier

The sensor has to be scanned before the image is gone, so you would need
to know
the persistance level of the sensor as well as the light duration. If the
persistance is too long you wouldn't be able to capture fast action or
move the
camera, since you would get blurring as in a 1960s video camera!

You would also have to know how the sensor is scanned in what parallel
mode,
since I discussed this a while back with other techs and we determined
that it
isn't possible to series scan a 5m sensor in 1/8000 sec with present day
computers!

I imagine you could test this by spinning around and taking a strobe
picture in
the dark with the strobe set to a known high speed.


I don't know about the tochnical part of CCD. I just assume it's not the
same as video where the CCD needs to keep capturing images every 30 or 60th
of a second. With still images, I assume once the shutter is closed, the
processor would take its sweet time to exact the CCD info.

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 04:14:20 GMT, Gary Eickmeier

wrote:



leo wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message
news

Sure, but the camera has to scan it's sensor into memory at least as
fast!



Hummingbird is fast, about 50 - 80 beats a second. Many P&S can manage
at
least 1/1000 of a second shutter so what're you talking about?

It's just a test of person's skill, long lens and external flash (if
needed)
of SLR over compact cameras.

He is thinking that the camera has to scan in the info from the CCD just
as fast as the flash duration, but I don't think that is right.

Gary Eickmeier

The sensor has to be scanned before the image is gone, so you would need
to know
the persistance level of the sensor as well as the light duration. If the
persistance is too long you wouldn't be able to capture fast action or
move the
camera, since you would get blurring as in a 1960s video camera!

You would also have to know how the sensor is scanned in what parallel
mode,
since I discussed this a while back with other techs and we determined
that it
isn't possible to series scan a 5m sensor in 1/8000 sec with present day
computers!

I imagine you could test this by spinning around and taking a strobe
picture in
the dark with the strobe set to a known high speed.


I don't know about the tochnical part of CCD. I just assume it's not the
same as video where the CCD needs to keep capturing images every 30 or 60th
of a second. With still images, I assume once the shutter is closed, the
processor would take its sweet time to exact the CCD info.