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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 28th 04, 09:49 PM
William Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...


"Robert Mathews" wrote in message All batteries have
internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..

This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a car
battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while the
starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little load
on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside the
camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then only
the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable batteries
such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I agree
completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.

A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are

types
of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also,

the
Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler)

on
a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But

it
isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one

uses
them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of

their
internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
device.........


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments

that take our breath away. (George Carlin)


  #32  
Old June 28th 04, 10:17 PM
David H. Lipman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...

The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.

Dave




"William Graham" wrote in message news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
|
| "Robert Mathews" wrote in message All batteries have
| internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
|
| This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
| small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a car
| battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
| loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while the
| starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little load
| on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
| manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside the
| camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then only
| the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
| Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable batteries
| such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
| they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I agree
| completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
|
| A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
| that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
| sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
| batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
| types
| of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
| believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also,
| the
| Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
| nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler)
| on
| a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But
| it
| isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
| impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
| can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one
| uses
| them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
| their
| internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| device.........
|
|
| --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| --------------------------
| Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
| that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
|
|


  #33  
Old June 28th 04, 10:49 PM
Gymmy Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...

It is probably (knowing Sony's battery life history) too high a current draw
on a Lithium battery and they tend to explode when overloaded.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
. ..
David H. Lipman wrote:

Don't top post

Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio

laptops. Therefore I
won't buy Sony.

As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason

why you should not
be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA

batteries, they just
last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries

(better price than Radio
Shack).


When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.




--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--



  #34  
Old June 28th 04, 10:51 PM
Gymmy Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...

"Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
Ohm's law is the one you want there son.

"David H. Lipman" wrote in message
...
The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.

Dave




"William Graham" wrote in message

news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
|
| "Robert Mathews" wrote in message All batteries

have
| internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
|
| This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
| small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a

car
| battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
| loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while

the
| starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little

load
| on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
| manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside

the
| camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then

only
| the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
| Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable

batteries
| such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
| they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I

agree
| completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
|
| A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck

battery
| that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one

second
| sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
| batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
| types
| of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.

Lithiums, I
| believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines.

Also,
| the
| Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
| nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns

cooler)
| on
| a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums.

But
| it
| isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage

that is
| impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for

example,
| can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when

one
| uses
| them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
| their
| internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| device.........
|
|
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| --------------------------
| Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the

moments
| that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
|
|




  #35  
Old June 28th 04, 11:13 PM
David H. Lipman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...

Nope....

This is NOT an electronics News Group so I will not go into an explanation why Ohm's Law is
insufficient and Kirchoff's Law is apropos.

I will say model the circuit. Where...
- R(load) is less than R(internal resistance of battery)
- R(load) equals R(internal resistance of battery)
- R(load) is greater than R(internal resistance of battery)

Dave



"Gymmy Bob" wrote in message ...
| "Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
| Ohm's law is the one you want there son.
|
| "David H. Lipman" wrote in message
| ...
| The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.
|
| Dave
|
|
|
|
| "William Graham" wrote in message
| news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
| |
| | "Robert Mathews" wrote in message All batteries
| have
| | internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
| |
| | This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
| | small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a
| car
| | battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
| | loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while
| the
| | starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little
| load
| | on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| | There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
| | manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| | considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside
| the
| | camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then
| only
| | the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
| | Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable
| batteries
| | such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
| | they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I
| agree
| | completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
| |
| | A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck
| battery
| | that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one
| second
| | sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
| | batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
| | types
| | of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.
| Lithiums, I
| | believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines.
| Also,
| | the
| | Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
| | nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns
| cooler)
| | on
| | a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums.
| But
| | it
| | isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage
| that is
| | impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for
| example,
| | can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when
| one
| | uses
| | them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
| | their
| | internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| | device.........
| |
| |
| |
| --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| | --------------------------
| | Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
| moments
| | that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
| |
| |
|
|
|
|


  #36  
Old June 29th 04, 01:15 AM
dj_nme
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service bySony... Read on...

Bob wrote:
No, he is right and you are mistaken.

Sorry.

Bob


Strangely, both of them were partly correct.
The current draw is related to the resistance of the bulb filament, also
the available current and voltage is related to the internal resistance
of the battery.
As a battery is used up, the internal resistance goes up and the
available current goes down. As this happens, the filament is still
drawing the same power from the battery and because the battery voltage
can't go up, the bulb goes dim.
  #37  
Old June 29th 04, 04:45 AM
Gymmy Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...

Yeah OK, I will state the blatantly obvious. The sum of the currents
entering the point is equal to the sum of the currents leaving the point.

So watt?

Who cares if the resistance of the battery is greater or lesser than the
R(load)? The current is inversely proportional to the total circuit
resistance. This includes the battery and the load.
Ohm's law
part 1


"David H. Lipman" wrote in message
...
Nope....

This is NOT an electronics News Group so I will not go into an explanation

why Ohm's Law is
insufficient and Kirchoff's Law is apropos.

I will say model the circuit. Where...
- R(load) is less than R(internal resistance of battery)
- R(load) equals R(internal resistance of battery)
- R(load) is greater than R(internal resistance of battery)

Dave



"Gymmy Bob" wrote in message

...
| "Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
| Ohm's law is the one you want there son.
|
| "David H. Lipman" wrote in message
| ...
| The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.
|
| Dave
|
|
|
|
| "William Graham" wrote in message
| news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
| |
| | "Robert Mathews" wrote in message All

batteries
| have
| | internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
| |
| | This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a

very
| | small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception

of a
| car
| | battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very

heavily
| | loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts

while
| the
| | starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so

little
| load
| | on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| | There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes

the
| | manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| | considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while

inside
| the
| | camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger,

then
| only
| | the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be

used. -
| | Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable
| batteries
| | such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them

while
| | they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I
| agree
| | completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
| |
| | A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck
| battery
| | that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one
| second
| | sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA

flashlight
| | batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there

are
| | types
| | of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.
| Lithiums, I
| | believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do

alkalines.
| Also,
| | the
| | Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that

is
| | nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns
| cooler)
| | on
| | a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of

lithiums.
| But
| | it
| | isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage
| that is
| | impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for
| example,
| | can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful

when
| one
| | uses
| | them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not

because of
| | their
| | internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| | device.........
| |
| |
| |
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| | --------------------------
| | Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
| moments
| | that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
| |
| |
|
|
|
|




  #38  
Old June 29th 04, 04:51 AM
David H. Lipman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...

You don't see the trees through the forest!

Like I said model it.

Dave




"Gymmy Bob" wrote in message ...
| Yeah OK, I will state the blatantly obvious. The sum of the currents
| entering the point is equal to the sum of the currents leaving the point.
|
| So watt?
|
| Who cares if the resistance of the battery is greater or lesser than the
| R(load)? The current is inversely proportional to the total circuit
| resistance. This includes the battery and the load.
| Ohm's law
| part 1
|
|
| "David H. Lipman" wrote in message
| ...
| Nope....
|
| This is NOT an electronics News Group so I will not go into an explanation
| why Ohm's Law is
| insufficient and Kirchoff's Law is apropos.
|
| I will say model the circuit. Where...
| - R(load) is less than R(internal resistance of battery)
| - R(load) equals R(internal resistance of battery)
| - R(load) is greater than R(internal resistance of battery)
|
| Dave
|
|
|
| "Gymmy Bob" wrote in message
| ...
| | "Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
| | Ohm's law is the one you want there son.
| |
| | "David H. Lipman" wrote in message
| | ...
| | The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.
| |
| | Dave
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | "William Graham" wrote in message
| | news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
| | |
| | | "Robert Mathews" wrote in message All
| batteries
| | have
| | | internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
| | |
| | | This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a
| very
| | | small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception
| of a
| | car
| | | battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very
| heavily
| | | loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts
| while
| | the
| | | starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so
| little
| | load
| | | on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| | | There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes
| the
| | | manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| | | considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while
| inside
| | the
| | | camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger,
| then
| | only
| | | the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be
| used. -
| | | Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable
| | batteries
| | | such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them
| while
| | | they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I
| | agree
| | | completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
| | |
| | | A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck
| | battery
| | | that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one
| | second
| | | sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA
| flashlight
| | | batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there
| are
| | | types
| | | of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.
| | Lithiums, I
| | | believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do
| alkalines.
| | Also,
| | | the
| | | Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that
| is
| | | nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns
| | cooler)
| | | on
| | | a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of
| lithiums.
| | But
| | | it
| | | isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage
| | that is
| | | impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for
| | example,
| | | can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful
| when
| | one
| | | uses
| | | them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not
| because of
| | | their
| | | internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| | | device.........
| | |
| | |
| | |
| |
| --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| | | --------------------------
| | | Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
| | moments
| | | that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
| | |
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|


  #39  
Old June 29th 04, 06:45 AM
dj_nme
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... OT electrical theory discussion

David H. Lipman wrote:
You don't see the trees through the forest!

Like I said model it.

Dave

"Gymmy Bob" wrote in message ...
| Yeah OK, I will state the blatantly obvious. The sum of the currents
| entering the point is equal to the sum of the currents leaving the point.
|
| So watt? ----- is that a pun?
|
| Who cares if the resistance of the battery is greater or lesser than the
| R(load)? The current is inversely proportional to the total circuit
| resistance. This includes the battery and the load.
| Ohm's law
| part 1


The result is that as the battery's internal resistance (r, in Ohms)
goes up, then the current (i, in Amperes) that it can supply goes down.
This means that the total power (w, in Watts) that it can supply goes
down, because the voltage can't rise to ballance the w=iv equation and
the worn out battery causes the bulb to either glow more dimly or
(eventualy) not at all.
 




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