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Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 5th 16, 12:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I
find I get better focus tracking without VR.


vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually
*helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving
all over the place.

Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor:

http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm

The autofocus is processed in the camera:

http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm

Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release
fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement.


so what?

that has nothing to do with focus speed.

it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any
further delays.

the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a
delay there too.


I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the
camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to
focus priority.


that has nothing to do with autofocus speed.
  #22  
Old August 5th 16, 02:10 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 19:42:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I
find I get better focus tracking without VR.


vr and focusing are two independent systems, however, vr actually
*helps* focus tracking because the target is stabilized and not moving
all over the place.

Should be true since the lense, at least Nikons have their own processor:

http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog...vr_e/index.htm

The autofocus is processed in the camera:

http://www.nikon.com/about/technolog.../caf/index.htm

Nevertheless there is a short delay after pushing the shutter release
fully down while the VR set centres and commences it's new movement.

so what?

that has nothing to do with focus speed.

it's only an initial delay and once stabilized, there aren't any
further delays.

the autofocus system may also have to rack the lens, so there may be a
delay there too.


I took Peter to mean a delay between pushing the button and and the
camera taking a photograph. I presume he has shutter release set to
focus priority.


that has nothing to do with autofocus speed.


Nevertheless that is what I think he meant.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #23  
Old August 5th 16, 03:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

On 8/4/2016 11:43 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-08-04 14:53:08 +0000, PeterN said:

On 8/3/2016 4:56 PM, RichA wrote:
I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the
fact it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm
lenses can be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they
have no VR. Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00.


If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I
find I get better focus tracking without VR.


Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your
personal experience?
...or is that some sort of unverified speculation?


I first heard that suggestion at a wildlife shooting lecture. The theory
is that when shooting at speeds above 1/2000 sec, you may not need VR.
VR does slightly slow down the frame rate. Since this made sense to me I
did not research the issue, other than to ask a Nikon professional, and
he confirmed the concept.
So I guess you can call that concept based on anecdotal evidence, until
I see documentation.




VR/OS was on for this shot.
https://db.tt/FChe5Y5t



Several

--
PeterN
  #24  
Old August 5th 16, 04:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

On 8/4/2016 5:44 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:43:01 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2016-08-04 14:53:08 +0000, PeterN said:

On 8/3/2016 4:56 PM, RichA wrote:
I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the fact
it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm lenses can
be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they have no VR.
Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00.


If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I
find I get better focus tracking without VR.


Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your
personal experience?
...or is that some sort of unverified speculation?

VR/OS was on for this shot.
https://db.tt/FChe5Y5t


See https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/33448760 for comments on the
effect of VR on focussing.

In http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm Thom Hogan explains why VR
should be switched off unless you actually need it.

And another explanation
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/...d-when-turn-it
or http://tinyurl.com/pvvubgh

I think Peter is right (but maybe for the wrong reasons?).


It's not a matter of being right or wrong. it's a question of which
works for getting the best possible photo under the circumstances.


--
PeterN
  #25  
Old August 5th 16, 04:04 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

On 8/4/2016 6:06 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I
find I get better focus tracking without VR.

Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your
personal experience?
...or is that some sort of unverified speculation?

VR/OS was on for this shot.
https://db.tt/FChe5Y5t


See https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/33448760 for comments on the
effect of VR on focussing.


not much there other than people guessing.

In http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm Thom Hogan explains why VR
should be switched off unless you actually need it.


that doesn't address focus speed issues. he's also being misleading.

And another explanation

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/...ns/image-stabi
lization-when-use-it-and-when-turn-it
or http://tinyurl.com/pvvubgh


more fluff.

I think Peter is right (but maybe for the wrong reasons?).


he's wrong.

vr *helps* autofocus speed because with the image stabilized, the focus
points can remain on the same parts of the image.

without stabilization, the subject will be bouncing around, making it
very difficult for autofocus to track and/or lock.


when you start shooting birds in flight, I will consider your answer as
professional, as opposed to argumentative.
i will go with Thom Hogan

--
PeterN
  #26  
Old August 5th 16, 04:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

On 8/4/2016 6:07 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:53:08 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 8/3/2016 4:56 PM, RichA wrote:
I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the fact it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm lenses can be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they have no VR. Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00.


If you're shooing birds at high speeds,


My grandson was shooing birds at high speed the other day. There were
a bunch of pigeons on the sidewalk and he ran up and shooed them off.


The best way to catch birds is to put salt on their tails.

--
PeterN
  #27  
Old August 5th 16, 04:07 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
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Posts: 4,254
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

On 8/4/2016 6:22 PM, Bill W wrote:
On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 09:44:59 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:43:01 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2016-08-04 14:53:08 +0000, PeterN said:

On 8/3/2016 4:56 PM, RichA wrote:
I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the fact
it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm lenses can
be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they have no VR.
Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00.


If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I
find I get better focus tracking without VR.

Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your
personal experience?
...or is that some sort of unverified speculation?

VR/OS was on for this shot.
https://db.tt/FChe5Y5t


See https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/33448760 for comments on the
effect of VR on focussing.


From 2009.

In http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm Thom Hogan explains why VR
should be switched off unless you actually need it.


From 2010.

And another explanation
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/...d-when-turn-it
or http://tinyurl.com/pvvubgh


Don't know when that's from, but things have certainly progressed
since 2010, plus that Hogan character seems like a bit of a flake, at
least on a quick read. I could be wrong about that, though.


He is a highly respected source of Nikon information, despite what
nospam says.

--
PeterN
  #28  
Old August 5th 16, 04:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

On 8/4/2016 7:28 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I haven't been following this thread, but Tim Grey just wrote on the
subject of hummingbirds and VR:

http://asktimgrey.com/

It's the August 4 "Stabilizing with Fast Shutter" issue in case a
later date opens at that link.

use the actual link rather than inconvenience the user.
http://asktimgrey.com/2016/08/04/stabilization-with-fast-shutter/


What is the virtue of the longer URL?


it's a direct link to the article.

They both get to the same place.


no they don't.


And that comment has what to do with VR and high shutter speeds.

--
PeterN
  #29  
Old August 5th 16, 04:15 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I saw it in a magazine, a convincing win for the Fuji despite the
fact it was a zoom against a prime lens. Nikon's earlier 300mm
lenses can be had for half the price, but are not recommended as they
have no VR. Both Fuji and Nikon run about $2000.00.


If you're shooing birds at high speeds, VR only slows things down. I
find I get better focus tracking without VR.


Has that actually been documented by anybody, other than with your
personal experience?
...or is that some sort of unverified speculation?


I first heard that suggestion at a wildlife shooting lecture. The theory
is that when shooting at speeds above 1/2000 sec, you may not need VR.


that part is true.

VR does slightly slow down the frame rate.


that part is not.

Since this made sense to me I
did not research the issue, other than to ask a Nikon professional, and
he confirmed the concept.


he's wrong.

the frame rate is independent of vr.

So I guess you can call that concept based on anecdotal evidence, until
I see documentation.


read the documentation on how vr works.
  #30  
Old August 5th 16, 04:15 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Fuji's XF 100-400mm zoom beats Nikon's 300mm f/4.0 VR prime.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I think Peter is right (but maybe for the wrong reasons?).


he's wrong.

vr *helps* autofocus speed because with the image stabilized, the focus
points can remain on the same parts of the image.

without stabilization, the subject will be bouncing around, making it
very difficult for autofocus to track and/or lock.


when you start shooting birds in flight, I will consider your answer as
professional, as opposed to argumentative.


logical fallacy.

i will go with Thom Hogan


thom didn't say one way or the other what vr does to autofocus speed.

that means you are being argumentative.
 




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