If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...x/P1040662.JPG
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...c/P1040664.JPG http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...o/P1040666.JPG http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...o/P1040667.JPG -- Best regards, John Navas Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others) |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
John Navas wrote:
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...x/P1040662.JPG Maybe the rest are better, but I see no sense posting shots like these at full-res, when they show sharpening halos, lots of (very spotty) noise in the sky, and NR-obliterated detail in low-contrast areas (eg in the bottom-right corner, look at the mess above and left of the bin - some really noisy areas, some areas smoothed unrealistically). A few tips: 1. Turn off in-camera NR, or whatever you are using. 2. Turn off in-camera sharpening, or whatever you are using... 3. While still at full-res, experiment with NR to get a suitable result and don't save over the original. 4. Use a layer containing the NR version, and a layer without. Selectively erase the NR-ed areas where they have damaged detail, eg the somewhat-dark-but-detailed areas. 5. Reduce to about half size, experiment with algorithms to get best result - I like Lanczos for most (eg via Irfanview). 6. Very carefully sharpen. In PS I generally settle on around .3 to . 7 of a pixel, 100%, maybe 3-5 levels is about right but ymmv. If you can see halos, you have gone too far. If you can't see the halos and squashed detail in that image, I give up. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice enough image but you are pushing it way too far, and your workflow/camera settings are doing it damage. These issues have been mentioned to you before, I note, not just by me. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:32:22 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote in : wrote: John Navas wrote: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...x/P1040662.JPG Maybe the rest are better, but I see no sense posting shots like these at full-res, when they show sharpening halos, lots of (very spotty) noise in the sky, and NR-obliterated detail in low-contrast areas (eg in the bottom-right corner, look at the mess above and left of the bin - some really noisy areas, some areas smoothed unrealistically). The tree strikes me as a bit too central as well. Nice image when not viewed close up. I rather like the tree image myself -- it's my own favorite of the four. Feedback on these photos on DPReview was all: (1) focused on them as photos, rather than technical nitpicking. (2) complimentary. With regard to technical nitpicking: "Any digital image seen at 100% that is either from an in-camera JPG or from a RAW file which has had USM applied properly by the user will show halos. One therefore can not use 100% magnification images to form a reliable conclusion about real-world image quality." -Michael Reichmann, The Luminous Landscape (luminous-landscape.com) Mark's determination to just run them down with off-the-mark nitpicking (much like the person complaining the sign wasn't readable in my image of Alcatraz despite letters too small to be resolved by any camera at that focal length and resolution) is part of how and why Mark's earned a coveted spot in my twit filter. -- Best regards, John Navas Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others) |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
John Navas wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:32:22 GMT, "David J Taylor" wrote in : wrote: John Navas wrote: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...x/P1040662.JPG Maybe the rest are better, but I see no sense posting shots like these at full-res, when they show sharpening halos, lots of (very spotty) noise in the sky, and NR-obliterated detail in low-contrast areas (eg in the bottom-right corner, look at the mess above and left of the bin - some really noisy areas, some areas smoothed unrealistically). The tree strikes me as a bit too central as well. Nice image when not viewed close up. I rather like the tree image myself -- it's my own favorite of the four. Feedback on these photos on DPReview was all: (1) focused on them as photos, rather than technical nitpicking. (2) complimentary. With regard to technical nitpicking: "Any digital image seen at 100% that is either from an in-camera JPG or from a RAW file which has had USM applied properly by the user will show halos. One therefore can not use 100% magnification images to form a reliable conclusion about real-world image quality." -Michael Reichmann, The Luminous Landscape (luminous-landscape.com) Mark's determination to just run them down with off-the-mark nitpicking (much like the person complaining the sign wasn't readable in my image of Alcatraz despite letters too small to be resolved by any camera at that focal length and resolution) is part of how and why Mark's earned a coveted spot in my twit filter. I have to agree. The shot was at ISO 100, and 1/60 second. Not a bad image for a small camera. One might fault composition. I would have, at least, tried a shot from about 30 feet to the photographer's right in order to put the brightest area behind the tree to make a more dramatic contrast, but I might not have liked the result. Some of the critics here are more like movie critics, who tend to notice the technical aspects, and the acting ability of the characters, and the directing, or special effects, and forget the plot entirely. Many movies that gross the highest are panned by the critics, but I feel they have worth, simply because they do what they are intended to do, entertain! Photography is much like that. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
Ron Hunter wrote:
John Navas wrote: With regard to technical nitpicking: * *"Any digital image seen at 100% that is either from an in-camera JPG * *or from a RAW file which has had USM applied properly by the user * *will show halos. One therefore can not use 100% magnification images * *to form a reliable conclusion about real-world image quality." * *-Michael Reichmann, The Luminous Landscape (luminous-landscape.com) Which since Navas provided 100% images, he only has himself to blame for then receiving *technical* criticism. One might fault composition. * Which was also noted on posts here ... but no suggestions to change anything were offered at Dpreview. I would have, at least, tried a shot from about 30 feet to the photographer's right in order to put the brightest area behind the tree to make a more dramatic contrast, but I might not have liked the result. * The tree was compositionally dead-center, which also suggests trying a few compositions that use the classical rule of thirds would have been in order too. Some of the critics here are more like movie critics, who tend to notice the technical aspects, and the acting ability of the characters, and the directing, or special effects, and forget the plot entirely. *Many movies that gross the highest are panned by the critics, but I feel they have worth, simply because they do what they are intended to do, entertain! Photography is much like that. Its a shot that will generally gather positive feedback because of its nice orange colors. However, that's predominantly a "good luck" aspect of a shot, of being at the right place at the right time. The meta-question is what do you do from there, specifically if one did a job worthy of the conditions that you were afforded with, or if you ended up with something that's merely 'nice' when reduced down to ~20% and viewed on a webpage. -hh |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:35:33 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote: John Navas wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:32:22 GMT, "David J Taylor" wrote in : wrote: John Navas wrote: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...x/P1040662.JPG Maybe the rest are better, but I see no sense posting shots like these at full-res, when they show sharpening halos, lots of (very spotty) noise in the sky, and NR-obliterated detail in low-contrast areas (eg in the bottom-right corner, look at the mess above and left of the bin - some really noisy areas, some areas smoothed unrealistically). The tree strikes me as a bit too central as well. Nice image when not viewed close up. I rather like the tree image myself -- it's my own favorite of the four. Feedback on these photos on DPReview was all: (1) focused on them as photos, rather than technical nitpicking. (2) complimentary. With regard to technical nitpicking: "Any digital image seen at 100% that is either from an in-camera JPG or from a RAW file which has had USM applied properly by the user will show halos. One therefore can not use 100% magnification images to form a reliable conclusion about real-world image quality." -Michael Reichmann, The Luminous Landscape (luminous-landscape.com) Mark's determination to just run them down with off-the-mark nitpicking (much like the person complaining the sign wasn't readable in my image of Alcatraz despite letters too small to be resolved by any camera at that focal length and resolution) is part of how and why Mark's earned a coveted spot in my twit filter. I have to agree. The shot was at ISO 100, and 1/60 second. Not a bad image for a small camera. One might fault composition. I would have, at least, tried a shot from about 30 feet to the photographer's right in order to put the brightest area behind the tree to make a more dramatic contrast, but I might not have liked the result. Some of the critics here are more like movie critics, who tend to notice the technical aspects, and the acting ability of the characters, and the directing, or special effects, and forget the plot entirely. Many movies that gross the highest are panned by the critics, but I feel they have worth, simply because they do what they are intended to do, entertain! Photography is much like that. Bad composition plus bad techniques do not a great picture make. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
In article ,
John Navas wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:32:22 GMT, "David J Taylor" wrote in : wrote: John Navas wrote: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/10...x/P1040662.JPG Maybe the rest are better, but I see no sense posting shots like these at full-res, when they show sharpening halos, lots of (very spotty) noise in the sky, and NR-obliterated detail in low-contrast areas (eg in the bottom-right corner, look at the mess above and left of the bin - some really noisy areas, some areas smoothed unrealistically). The tree strikes me as a bit too central as well. Nice image when not viewed close up. I rather like the tree image myself -- it's my own favorite of the four. Feedback on these photos on DPReview was all: (1) focused on them as photos, rather than technical nitpicking. (2) complimentary. With regard to technical nitpicking: "Any digital image seen at 100% that is either from an in-camera JPG or from a RAW file which has had USM applied properly by the user will show halos. One therefore can not use 100% magnification images to form a reliable conclusion about real-world image quality." -Michael Reichmann, The Luminous Landscape (luminous-landscape.com) Mark's determination to just run them down with off-the-mark nitpicking (much like the person complaining the sign wasn't readable in my image of Alcatraz despite letters too small to be resolved by any camera at that focal length and resolution) is part of how and why Mark's earned a coveted spot in my twit filter. Everybody on the internet is a twit. A properly applied USM never shows a halo. USM is an anti-blur that, when properly tuned, can exactly correct for a mild and consistent blur. The only fault remaining is amplified noise. A halo indicates that the level is too high or the diameter is too large. As for the photos - The sunrise and tree image is my favorite too but it is severely damaged. The center of attention is long, thin branches which have been garbled. You need a better camera or you need to take photos of trees with fatter branches. Zoom in. -- I don't read Google's spam. Reply with another service. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
On 2008-02-24, wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:49:55 GMT, in rec.photo.digital John Navas wrote: With regard to technical nitpicking: "Any digital image seen at 100% that is either from an in-camera JPG or from a RAW file which has had USM applied properly by the user will show halos. One therefore can not use 100% magnification images to form a reliable conclusion about real-world image quality." -Michael Reichmann, The Luminous Landscape (luminous-landscape.com) And this is neither, correct? It's been edited in PS, so there's no need for in camera sharpening. And it's not a raw conversion, though I totally disagree with the statement that proper USM use creates such haloed images. Sometimes that kind of ridiculous journalistic pontification can only be taken as a challenge... http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2039/...299cef66_o.jpg This is straight off a (Berkowitz-assessment: obsolete) D200, only adjusted the temperature in ACR, then a 115/0.7/0 USM in Photoshop. -- Chris Savage Kiss me. Or would you rather live in a Gateshead, UK land where the soap won't lather? - Billy Bragg |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Dawn in Foster City with the Panasonic FZ8
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:35:33 -0600, Ron Hunter
wrote in : I have to agree. The shot was at ISO 100, and 1/60 second. Not a bad image for a small camera. One might fault composition. I would have, at least, tried a shot from about 30 feet to the photographer's right in order to put the brightest area behind the tree to make a more dramatic contrast, but I might not have liked the result. I considered that, but unfortunately there was an ugly lamppost that would have marred a shot taken that way. Some of the critics here are more like movie critics, who tend to notice the technical aspects, and the acting ability of the characters, and the directing, or special effects, and forget the plot entirely. Or are dSLR bigots that are desperate to put down any image from a small sensor camera no matter how good. Many movies that gross the highest are panned by the critics, but I feel they have worth, simply because they do what they are intended to do, entertain! Photography is much like that. Sure, but these self-appointed critics aren't representative of the world at large. -- Best regards, John Navas Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others) |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Truckin' on through the dawn... | Ben Miller | Digital Photography | 0 | November 19th 07 12:59 AM |
Dawn with a false sunrise | Julian. | 35mm Photo Equipment | 3 | July 14th 07 10:11 AM |