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Road ruts with Jobo



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 21st 04, 09:47 PM
Brian Kosoff
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Default Road ruts with Jobo



The problem is with 120 roll film in the 2500 series drums, although I do
not get even development when I process 8x10 film in the 300x series drums.


On 1/21/04 4:25 PM, in article BC34587A wrote:

Hi,

I'm using a Jobo cpp-2 processor I am getting an uneveness in
development which jobo refers to as "road ruts" that is a linear uneveness
that runs the long length of the film, in the direction of the rotation.
It's dense on the edge, then lighter 1/3 of the way in, then denser, then
lighter then denser.
Jobo says to slow the speed of the rotation down from the 75 rpm that
the manual suggests, so I have slowed it to about 50rpm, but I am still
getting the ruts. My film is 120 tmax 100, the developer is d-76 1:1, I
am using a 5 minute presoak, 4 rinses after fix and kodak rapid fixer. No
stop bath. I shoot primarily very high key scenes and still lifes where
eveness of background is critical.

Any help with this problem would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Brian Kosoff
kosoff.com


  #2  
Old January 24th 04, 12:20 AM
Michael Scarpitti
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Default Road ruts with Jobo

Brian Kosoff wrote in message ...
Hi,

I'm using a Jobo cpp-2 processor I am getting an uneveness in
development which jobo refers to as "road ruts" that is a linear uneveness
that runs the long length of the film, in the direction of the rotation.
It's dense on the edge, then lighter 1/3 of the way in, then denser, then
lighter then denser.
Jobo says to slow the speed of the rotation down from the 75 rpm that
the manual suggests, so I have slowed it to about 50rpm, but I am still
getting the ruts. My film is 120 tmax 100, the developer is d-76 1:1, I
am using a 5 minute presoak, 4 rinses after fix and kodak rapid fixer. No
stop bath. I shoot primarily very high key scenes and still lifes where
eveness of background is critical.

Any help with this problem would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Brian Kosoff
kosoff.com




Mechanical agitation that is invarying inevitably will be harder to
control than manual agitation using inversion in a standard tank. The
allure of mechanization is obvious, but I process exclusively by hand,
and never have uneven development.
  #4  
Old January 24th 04, 02:06 AM
Brian Kosoff
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Posts: n/a
Default Road ruts with Jobo

I shoot large quantities of film, from 120 up to 8x10 doing it by hand would
be prohibitive. I bought a Jobo because supposedly, it was the most even
processing. What's funny is that most of the Jobo owners that I have spoken
to have similar problems with eveness. When I asked a Jobo tech, they told
me that I might need to turn my processor 90 degrees in relationship to the
earth's magentic field!!!! Now that's what I call customer service!


On 1/23/04 7:47 PM, in article
, "Tom Thackrey"
wrote:


On 23-Jan-2004, (Michael Scarpitti) wrote:

Mechanical agitation that is invarying inevitably will be harder to
control than manual agitation using inversion in a standard tank. The
allure of mechanization is obvious, but I process exclusively by hand,
and never have uneven development.


Gee and I thought consistancy was the objective. I didn't realize that
varying agitation was part of the creative process. ;-


  #5  
Old January 24th 04, 02:08 AM
Randy Stewart
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Default Road ruts with Jobo


"Tom Thackrey" wrote in message
om...

On 23-Jan-2004, (Michael Scarpitti) wrote:

Mechanical agitation that is invarying inevitably will be harder to
control than manual agitation using inversion in a standard tank. The
allure of mechanization is obvious, but I process exclusively by hand,
and never have uneven development.


Gee and I thought consistancy was the objective. I didn't realize that
varying agitation was part of the creative process. ;-

--
Tom Thackrey


Gee Tom, I don't think that agistation methods, apart from some extremes,
have anything to do with "the creative process" either, but then mechanical
drum processing of your film doesn't guarantee "consistency" which is worth
achieving, as this thread as demonstrated.

Mr. Sccarpitti's style does get very far with me, so I find it stange to
take his side on this point. However the inherent problems of constant
agistation of the type provided by Jobo, or which I dealt with for more
than a decade using a similar processer, are well documented and discussed
in The Film Developing Cookbook. Hand done, intermitant agitation is not as
convenient as a drum processor, but it does avoid the problems discussed in
this thread, and should yield marginally better negatives for most people.
It's just a question of whether your drum processor result are okay for you
and you put a premium on the convenience, in which case, keep on "rolling".

Randy Stewart


  #6  
Old January 24th 04, 02:24 AM
jjs
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Default Road ruts with Jobo

In article , Brian Kosoff
wrote:

[...] When I asked a Jobo tech, they told
me that I might need to turn my processor 90 degrees in relationship to the
earth's magentic field!!!! [...]


Same as "Where the sun don't shine"?
  #8  
Old January 24th 04, 03:04 AM
Tom Thackrey
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Default Road ruts with Jobo



On 23-Jan-2004, Brian Kosoff wrote:

I shoot large quantities of film, from 120 up to 8x10 doing it by hand
would
be prohibitive. I bought a Jobo because supposedly, it was the most even
processing. What's funny is that most of the Jobo owners that I have
spoken
to have similar problems with eveness. When I asked a Jobo tech, they told
me that I might need to turn my processor 90 degrees in relationship to
the
earth's magentic field!!!! Now that's what I call customer service!


I guess (or is it gauss) I must have aligned mine correctly by accident.

I do 35mm, 120 and 4x5 in my Jobo 1500. I've probably done 400 rolls of
35mm, over a 1000 of 120 and several hundred sheets of 4x5, mostly B&W, some
E-6, and quite a bit of C-41 in the last two years. All of my problems have
been user induced. When I load the film and chemistry correctly and select
the right program and water temperature I get excellent results. I only know
a few Jobo owners, but all of them seem to like the results. I bought mine
because Rod Dresser was so happy with his. I'm also surprised at your
experience with Jobo support. I've never had to call them, but I've always
heard good things about their responsiveness and knowledge.

I'm not trying to suggest that you aren't having problems or that Jobo's
perfect. I'm just relating my experience.



--
Tom Thackrey
www.creative-light.com
tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
do NOT send email to (it's reserved for spammers)
  #9  
Old January 24th 04, 03:57 AM
Jean-David Beyer
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Default Road ruts with Jobo

Michael Scarpitti wrote:
Brian Kosoff wrote in message ...

Hi,

I'm using a Jobo cpp-2 processor I am getting an uneveness in
development which jobo refers to as "road ruts" that is a linear uneveness
that runs the long length of the film, in the direction of the rotation.
It's dense on the edge, then lighter 1/3 of the way in, then denser, then
lighter then denser.
Jobo says to slow the speed of the rotation down from the 75 rpm that
the manual suggests, so I have slowed it to about 50rpm, but I am still
getting the ruts. My film is 120 tmax 100, the developer is d-76 1:1, I
am using a 5 minute presoak, 4 rinses after fix and kodak rapid fixer. No
stop bath. I shoot primarily very high key scenes and still lifes where
eveness of background is critical.

Any help with this problem would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Brian Kosoff
kosoff.com





Mechanical agitation that is invarying inevitably will be harder to
control than manual agitation using inversion in a standard tank. The
allure of mechanization is obvious, but I process exclusively by hand,
and never have uneven development.


I used to develop 4x5 sheet film in Calumet stainless steel 1/2 gallon
tanks in Kodak Stainless Steel hangers. During testing, I made uniform
exposures to entire sheets and measured the densities across the films
using my MacBeth TD-901 transmission densitometer. They were quite uniform.

When I switched to the Jobo CPE-2 processor with the old reels (I forget
their number), I had terrible uniformity problems. A broad denser stripe
down the middle of the film parallel to the 5" edge was quite obvious:
no densitometer was required. At the time Jobo suggested developping
only 4 sheets in each 6-sheet reel, leaving more space between the
negatives (or transparancies). Well that helped a lot, but even so, it
was not entirely satisfactory.

They redesigned the reels and now sell the 2509-N reels that work
perfectly. In addition the the redesign of the reels, the reels now come
with some plastic plates that are presumably to hold the films in place.
I never had trouble with films coming out even with the old reels, but
perhaps some people did. IMAO, thse retaining plates also greatly
improve the flow patterns, making (hypothetical) rushing between the
negatives less likely. So not stipes anymore. But this is old news,
since the "new" reels were probably introduced at least a decade ago by
now and I doubt anyone has the old type in stock.

In any case, I find my control over processing is much easier with the
Jobo processing than the manual processing I used to do. The
repeatability is certainly much greater that formerly, since the
agitation is always the same.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 10:50pm up 17 days, 10:16, 2 users, load average: 2.08, 2.04, 2.07

  #10  
Old January 24th 04, 03:59 AM
Jean-David Beyer
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Posts: n/a
Default Road ruts with Jobo

Brian Kosoff wrote:
I shoot large quantities of film, from 120 up to 8x10 doing it by
hand would be prohibitive. I bought a Jobo because supposedly, it
was the most even processing. What's funny is that most of the Jobo
owners that I have spoken to have similar problems with eveness. When
I asked a Jobo tech, they told me that I might need to turn my
processor 90 degrees in relationship to the earth's magentic
field!!!! Now that's what I call customer service!


Sounds more like someone with a sense of humor to me. I never have had
uniformity problems with the Jobo after getting the 2509N reels for 4x5.
I use the 2501 reels for 35mm (and I could use them for 120 or 220 if I
shot that size).


On 1/23/04 7:47 PM, in article
, "Tom Thackrey"
wrote:


On 23-Jan-2004, (Michael Scarpitti) wrote:


Mechanical agitation that is invarying inevitably will be harder
to control than manual agitation using inversion in a standard
tank. The allure of mechanization is obvious, but I process
exclusively by hand, and never have uneven development.


Gee and I thought consistancy was the objective. I didn't realize
that varying agitation was part of the creative process. ;-






--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 10:55pm up 17 days, 10:21, 2 users, load average: 2.25, 2.16, 2.11

 




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