Windows 10 - Day 1

On Thu, 26 May 2016 16:36:03 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 5/26/2016 9:59 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.

most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.


Kinda like what Apple does?

nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.

Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.

that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

installing an incremental update doesn't change anything that the user
would notice, as it's just numerous bug fixes and security fixes, which
is why it's a *very* good idea to update.

installing a major upgrade *does* change stuff, sometimes significantly
so, which is why for a major upgrade (e.g., ios 8-9), you will at most
get *one* popup (sometimes not even that), with a badge icon staying on
the settings app. that's *it*.

that's *very* different than what's going on with win10. very, very
different.

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.

That didn't happen when I said no. But I forgot, you know everything.

Reputedly, an unwanted upgrade to W10 has been imposed upon some
people. I haven't had a full update forced upon me but I did have
security changes associated with W10 forced upon me some months before
I installed W10. Initially I didn't know what had happened and the
change prevented me from running some software, particularly Spyder.




consider a non-geek user who turns on their computer one morning to
find that the system is different from what they had the night before
and a bunch of stuff no longer works. they're not a geek so they don't
even know why it suddenly changed. not cool at all.



probably not true, unless your imaginary non-geek did something stupid.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 5/26/2016 6:10 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:

snip



Reputedly, an unwanted upgrade to W10 has been imposed upon some
people. I haven't had a full update forced upon me but I did have
security changes associated with W10 forced upon me some months before
I installed W10. Initially I didn't know what had happened and the
change prevented me from running some software, particularly Spyder.

What version of Spyder?



--
PeterN

On Thu, 26 May 2016 18:18:15 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 5/26/2016 6:10 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:

snip



Reputedly, an unwanted upgrade to W10 has been imposed upon some
people. I haven't had a full update forced upon me but I did have
security changes associated with W10 forced upon me some months before
I installed W10. Initially I didn't know what had happened and the
change prevented me from running some software, particularly Spyder.

What version of Spyder?

5.

What I didn't realise was that Microsoft had changed the security
setup and while I always had had 'administrator' powers I was now only
a second level administrator. Before I could run Spyder 5 I had to
each time upgrade myself to 'Administrator' (sort of a super level
administrator) to enable me to save monitor profiles. I had been using
Spyder for years without this kind of hoopla and the change caught me
completely by surprise. What is more I received absolutely no
notification of the change.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 5/26/2016 4:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 5/26/2016 9:59 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.

most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.


Kinda like what Apple does?

nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.

Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.

that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

installing an incremental update doesn't change anything that the user
would notice, as it's just numerous bug fixes and security fixes, which
is why it's a *very* good idea to update.

installing a major upgrade *does* change stuff, sometimes significantly
so, which is why for a major upgrade (e.g., ios 8-9), you will at most
get *one* popup (sometimes not even that), with a badge icon staying on
the settings app. that's *it*.

that's *very* different than what's going on with win10. very, very
different.

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.

That didn't happen when I said no. But I forgot, you know everything.

What MS has changed was with the recent pop-up notifying a user of the
upgrade to Win10. If the user did nothing but click the "X" to close
the window, MS accepted that as the user's acceptance to upgrade toi Win
10 via automatic update. They actually changed the "meaning" of
clicking the X to close a window.






consider a non-geek user who turns on their computer one morning to
find that the system is different from what they had the night before
and a bunch of stuff no longer works. they're not a geek so they don't
even know why it suddenly changed. not cool at all.



probably not true, unless your imaginary non-geek did something stupid.

In article , PAS wrote:


worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.

That didn't happen when I said no. But I forgot, you know everything.

What MS has changed was with the recent pop-up notifying a user of the
upgrade to Win10. If the user did nothing but click the "X" to close
the window, MS accepted that as the user's acceptance to upgrade toi Win
10 via automatic update. They actually changed the "meaning" of
clicking the X to close a window.

exactly.

when a user dismisses that box, just like they did in the past, they
now get win10, whereas they did not before.

On 5/27/2016 12:51 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 18:18:15 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 5/26/2016 6:10 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:

snip



Reputedly, an unwanted upgrade to W10 has been imposed upon some
people. I haven't had a full update forced upon me but I did have
security changes associated with W10 forced upon me some months before
I installed W10. Initially I didn't know what had happened and the
change prevented me from running some software, particularly Spyder.

What version of Spyder?

5.

What I didn't realise was that Microsoft had changed the security
setup and while I always had had 'administrator' powers I was now only
a second level administrator. Before I could run Spyder 5 I had to
each time upgrade myself to 'Administrator' (sort of a super level
administrator) to enable me to save monitor profiles. I had been using
Spyder for years without this kind of hoopla and the change caught me
completely by surprise. What is more I received absolutely no
notification of the change.


Thanks, that saved me a bit of aggravation when I upgrade. I did not
plan to switch to Win10 until forced. I still don't see a reason to.


--
PeterN

On 5/27/2016 9:48 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 09:33:08 -0400, PAS wrote:

On 5/26/2016 4:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 5/26/2016 9:59 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.
most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.

Kinda like what Apple does?
nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.

Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.
that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

installing an incremental update doesn't change anything that the user
would notice, as it's just numerous bug fixes and security fixes, which
is why it's a *very* good idea to update.

installing a major upgrade *does* change stuff, sometimes significantly
so, which is why for a major upgrade (e.g., ios 8-9), you will at most
get *one* popup (sometimes not even that), with a badge icon staying on
the settings app. that's *it*.

that's *very* different than what's going on with win10. very, very
different.

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.
That didn't happen when I said no. But I forgot, you know everything.
What MS has changed was with the recent pop-up notifying a user of the
upgrade to Win10. If the user did nothing but click the "X" to close
the window, MS accepted that as the user's acceptance to upgrade toi Win
10 via automatic update. They actually changed the "meaning" of
clicking the X to close a window.

I deliberately upgraded, but I fail to see the problem. I'm now in
the second day of using W-10. With the exception of the START menu
being different, what I have in 10 is exactly what I had in 7. Any
"under the hood" changes haven't affected me.

My desktop didn't change. All the icons are there exactly where they
were before. I was using Chrome before, and continue to use Chrome.
The icon is there in the task bar. I've checked into Edge and find it
OK but nothing special.

The layout of the START menu is different, but not at all difficult to
work with. Anyone who has been using W-7 for a few months would adapt
to W-10 in a matter of minutes. The most amount of time I've spent
working the START menu has been deleting some of the links that I do
not expect ever to use. There's no problem letting them stay, but the
interface is cleaner without them.

Someone said that a person waking up to find a whole new environment
would be distressed because W-10 suddenly appears. I can't imagine
anyone considering it a problem.

The objections, as far as I can tell, have been in the Chicken Little
"The sky is falling!" area.

The only problem I see is that people aren't approving to receive the
update and they are still getting it. I find that objectionable. For
myself, I am quite happy with Win 10 as I was with Win 8. I had no
fears about upgrading to either and both OSs work just fine for me. The
change from Win 7 to 8 was a more "drastic" change than the going from
Win 7 to 10.

On Fri, 27 May 2016 09:48:03 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

Someone said that a person waking up to find a whole new environment
would be distressed because W-10 suddenly appears. I can't imagine
anyone considering it a problem.

8 to 10 is a bigger change, and did take some getting used to.

On 5/27/2016 11:08 AM, PAS wrote:
On 5/27/2016 9:48 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 09:33:08 -0400, PAS wrote:

On 5/26/2016 4:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 5/26/2016 9:59 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.
most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade
*far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.

Kinda like what Apple does?
nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.

Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.
that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

installing an incremental update doesn't change anything that the user
would notice, as it's just numerous bug fixes and security fixes,
which
is why it's a *very* good idea to update.

installing a major upgrade *does* change stuff, sometimes
significantly
so, which is why for a major upgrade (e.g., ios 8-9), you will at
most
get *one* popup (sometimes not even that), with a badge icon
staying on
the settings app. that's *it*.

that's *very* different than what's going on with win10. very, very
different.

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.
That didn't happen when I said no. But I forgot, you know everything.
What MS has changed was with the recent pop-up notifying a user of the
upgrade to Win10. If the user did nothing but click the "X" to close
the window, MS accepted that as the user's acceptance to upgrade toi Win
10 via automatic update. They actually changed the "meaning" of
clicking the X to close a window.

I deliberately upgraded, but I fail to see the problem. I'm now in
the second day of using W-10. With the exception of the START menu
being different, what I have in 10 is exactly what I had in 7. Any
"under the hood" changes haven't affected me.

My desktop didn't change. All the icons are there exactly where they
were before. I was using Chrome before, and continue to use Chrome.
The icon is there in the task bar. I've checked into Edge and find it
OK but nothing special.

The layout of the START menu is different, but not at all difficult to
work with. Anyone who has been using W-7 for a few months would adapt
to W-10 in a matter of minutes. The most amount of time I've spent
working the START menu has been deleting some of the links that I do
not expect ever to use. There's no problem letting them stay, but the
interface is cleaner without them.

Someone said that a person waking up to find a whole new environment
would be distressed because W-10 suddenly appears. I can't imagine
anyone considering it a problem.

The objections, as far as I can tell, have been in the Chicken Little
"The sky is falling!" area.

The only problem I see is that people aren't approving to receive the
update and they are still getting it. I find that objectionable. For
myself, I am quite happy with Win 10 as I was with Win 8. I had no
fears about upgrading to either and both OSs work just fine for me. The
change from Win 7 to 8 was a more "drastic" change than the going from
Win 7 to 10.

After I bought my laptop, Lenovo, I downgraded to Win7. I did not like
Win8, at all.

--
PeterN

On 5/27/2016 3:04 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 11:08:26 -0400, PAS wrote:

On 5/27/2016 9:48 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 09:33:08 -0400, PAS wrote:

On 5/26/2016 4:36 PM, PeterN wrote:
On 5/26/2016 9:59 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.
most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.

Kinda like what Apple does?
nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.

Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.
that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

installing an incremental update doesn't change anything that the user
would notice, as it's just numerous bug fixes and security fixes, which
is why it's a *very* good idea to update.

installing a major upgrade *does* change stuff, sometimes significantly
so, which is why for a major upgrade (e.g., ios 8-9), you will at most
get *one* popup (sometimes not even that), with a badge icon staying on
the settings app. that's *it*.

that's *very* different than what's going on with win10. very, very
different.

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.
That didn't happen when I said no. But I forgot, you know everything.
What MS has changed was with the recent pop-up notifying a user of the
upgrade to Win10. If the user did nothing but click the "X" to close
the window, MS accepted that as the user's acceptance to upgrade toi Win
10 via automatic update. They actually changed the "meaning" of
clicking the X to close a window.

I deliberately upgraded, but I fail to see the problem. I'm now in
the second day of using W-10. With the exception of the START menu
being different, what I have in 10 is exactly what I had in 7. Any
"under the hood" changes haven't affected me.

My desktop didn't change. All the icons are there exactly where they
were before. I was using Chrome before, and continue to use Chrome.
The icon is there in the task bar. I've checked into Edge and find it
OK but nothing special.

The layout of the START menu is different, but not at all difficult to
work with. Anyone who has been using W-7 for a few months would adapt
to W-10 in a matter of minutes. The most amount of time I've spent
working the START menu has been deleting some of the links that I do
not expect ever to use. There's no problem letting them stay, but the
interface is cleaner without them.

Someone said that a person waking up to find a whole new environment
would be distressed because W-10 suddenly appears. I can't imagine
anyone considering it a problem.

The objections, as far as I can tell, have been in the Chicken Little
"The sky is falling!" area.

The only problem I see is that people aren't approving to receive the
update and they are still getting it.

I don't know how big a problem that is, and the ones I've read about
are due to not reading the pop-up and paying attention to what is
says.

As far as I can tell, the people who this happens to are not
inconvenienced in any way. 10 works so much the same as 7 that there
is no appreciable difference other than the START menu.

My two young grandchildren were over today. (Last day of school
yesterday) They were on this computer. I had not told them that I'd
switched from 7 to 10. They jumped right in and used the system just
as they had the week before.



Kids have tech knowledge built it. It you had converted to Linux, they
would have jumped right in and not said a word. ;-)


I find that objectionable. For
myself, I am quite happy with Win 10 as I was with Win 8. I had no
fears about upgrading to either and both OSs work just fine for me. The
change from Win 7 to 8 was a more "drastic" change than the going from
Win 7 to 10.



--
PeterN