Windows 10 - Day 1

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:


Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.

most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.

this should *not* happen, although she did handle it exceptionally well:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11...ws-10-upgrade-
prompt-storms-weather-report
Microsoft's aggressively nagging Windows 10 upgrade prompts claimed
another victim on Wednesday morning. KCCI 8 News Meteorologist
Metinka Slater was*just trying to tell us the weather in southwest
Iowa, but Windows 10 had other ideas. A giant Windows 10 upgrade
prompt appeared, heading east towards Omaha and Red Oak and looking
like the worst snow storm on record.

even worse, if you click the close box on the latest popup window,
without agreeing to any upgrade and thinking you've avoided the windows
10 upgrade (even if only temporary), you're in for a surprise, as the
meaning of the close box has just been changed to mean yes, please
upgrade me.

| most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
| hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.
|
|
| Kinda like what Apple does? Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
| telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
| frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.
|

That might be, but Apple has always been pushy
and disrespected their customers. You agree to
let them run the show by buying an Apple product.

Historically, Microsoft has been a sleazy, exploitive
monopolist, but it's only recently that they've begun
to push their way into your use of the product. Their
reasonably good behavior in the past has always been
a very big reason why I've chosen Windows over Macs.
MS primarily targets business use. Apple targets
consumer services.
Of course, there's also the crazy price gouging of
Apple and the lack of software, but even without those
factors, Apple is just far too nosy and controlling. They
cater to people who don't want to think and just want
a dependable, pretty, functional consumer device.
(Which Mr. Jobs refers to as "thinking different".)

Now, with Win10, MS is taking a big step in that
direction. Which is why Win10 is not a hit with
business.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.

most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.


Kinda like what Apple does?

nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.

Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.

that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

installing an incremental update doesn't change anything that the user
would notice, as it's just numerous bug fixes and security fixes, which
is why it's a *very* good idea to update.

installing a major upgrade *does* change stuff, sometimes significantly
so, which is why for a major upgrade (e.g., ios 8-9), you will at most
get *one* popup (sometimes not even that), with a badge icon staying on
the settings app. that's *it*.

that's *very* different than what's going on with win10. very, very
different.

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.

consider a non-geek user who turns on their computer one morning to
find that the system is different from what they had the night before
and a bunch of stuff no longer works. they're not a geek so they don't
even know why it suddenly changed. not cool at all.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
| hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.
|
|
| Kinda like what Apple does? Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
| telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
| frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.
|

That might be, but Apple has always been pushy
and disrespected their customers.You agree to
let them run the show by buying an Apple product.

sheer nonsense.

apple does not run the show. the user is *always* in control. always.

Historically, Microsoft has been a sleazy, exploitive
monopolist, but it's only recently that they've begun
to push their way into your use of the product. Their
reasonably good behavior in the past has always been
a very big reason why I've chosen Windows over Macs.
MS primarily targets business use. Apple targets
consumer services.

the only reason you've chosen windows over macs is because of your
****ed up beliefs about apple and the computer industry.

Of course, there's also the crazy price gouging of
Apple and the lack of software,

nonsense. more software runs natively on a mac than any other platform.

but even without those
factors, Apple is just far too nosy and controlling.

nonsense again. apple is very pro-privacy. in fact, they just hired jon
callas. if you don't know who that is (and you probably don't), do a
search.

They
cater to people who don't want to think and just want
a dependable, pretty, functional consumer device.
(Which Mr. Jobs refers to as "thinking different".)

like those people over at nasa that landed a spacecraft on mars, you
mean? it's rather impressive that they could do that, all without
thinking.

in general, apple users think far more than the microsoft sheep.

http://i.imgur.com/iua4C.jpg

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/06/t...-nasa-and-jpl-
is-shown-off-by-mars-curiosi/
The scientists and engineers can request whatever platform they
desire, and they mostly pick Macs. And it isn't specifically for
stuff that runs in X11 either; they use their Macs for everything and
emulate when they need to use a Windows app.

Now, with Win10, MS is taking a big step in that
direction. Which is why Win10 is not a hit with
business.

businesses are very slow to update no matter what it is. many of them
are just completing the win7 migration, so they're not about to upgrade
*again*.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.

most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.


Kinda like what Apple does?

nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.


Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.

that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

What's the difference to the user? A frequent pop-up is a frequent
pop-up.

the difference is huge, but i don't expect you to understand it, even
though i explained it.

Both are annoying. Apple nags more than Window, though.

nope on that too.

I knew you'd jump in to defend Apple and describe what Apple does as
"not remotely close" even though it's the same thing: frequent,
nagging, pop-ups.

it's not the same thing at all. as i said, it's not even remotely
close. that's not defending apple. that's clearing up a
misunderstanding (or trying to, anyway).

once again (not that it will make any difference):

apple puts up popups for *bug* *fixes*, which are *very* important and
does not change the user experience. users won't notice a difference,
other than fewer bugs.

microsoft puts up popups for a major upgrade (not a bug fix update)
which *does* change the user experience and risks numerous software
incompatibilities.

I don't want to upgrade to the newest IOS version, but I can't click
"Stop bothering me".

one difference is if you do that on win10, you get upgraded *anyway*.

with apple, no means no.
with microsoft, no means yes you really want it, bitch.

even paul thurrott, who is about as much of a microsoft fanboi as it
gets, is bashing microsoft over it.

win10 is definitely better but microsoft is pushing it *way* too hard.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:




Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.

that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

What's the difference to the user? A frequent pop-up is a frequent
pop-up.

the difference is huge, but i don't expect you to understand it, even
though i explained it.

Both are annoying. Apple nags more than Window, though.

nope on that too.

I knew you'd jump in to defend Apple and describe what Apple does as
"not remotely close" even though it's the same thing: frequent,
nagging, pop-ups.

it's not the same thing at all. as i said, it's not even remotely
close. that's not defending apple. that's clearing up a
misunderstanding (or trying to, anyway).

once again (not that it will make any difference):

apple puts up popups for *bug* *fixes*, which are *very* important and
does not change the user experience. users won't notice a difference,
other than fewer bugs.


Like you say...stick to the topic.

i am.

you're once again trying to turn it into a bash session.

I have declared that the topic is
the frequency of annoying pop-ups, not what the pop-ups lead to.

what they lead to is very important, and also what happens when you
dismiss the popup.

you don't get to ignore that because it's convenient.

Apple pop-ups appear on my iPhone and iPad much more frequently that
W-10 pop-ups appeared on my Windows desktop.

the difference is that you can say no to the apple popups and nothing
happens.

Apple's pop-ups are annoying. My user experience is disturbed by
having to decline to upgrade to the new IOS every time that pop-up
appears.

why don't you accept it? why are you refusing security/bug fixes??

not that it matters, since the part you keep on snipping is that if you
simply dismiss the popup for win10, you *get* *upgraded* *anyway*.

There's a testimonial for Apple: "fewer bugs".

that part you got right.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2016 11:04:49 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:




Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.


Like you say...stick to the topic.

i am.

Nope. The topic is frequency of annoying pop-ups. Apple leads.

nope. that was never the topic

the topic was that microsoft is making it nearly impossible to say no.

In article , nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:
Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.

most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.

also in that post was this link, something that will never happen on a
mac:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/28/11...ws-10-upgrade-
prompt-storms-weather-report

microsoft leads the way for annoyance.

you're once again trying to turn it into a bash session.

You're like one of Pavlov's dogs. Mention Apple, and you start
salivating and jump in to claim any mention is a "bash". It's a
wonder you don't short out your keyboard with dripping saliva.

wrong on that too.

you continue to snip what i wrote so that you can twist it into a bash
session.

once again, if you dismiss the win10 upgrade popup (not update, two
different things), you *get* *upgraded* *anyway*.

no means yes.

microsoft has made it *very* difficult and non-obvious to *not* upgrade
(not update, again, two different things). that's why there are several
third party apps that disable the upgrade mechanism.

Apple's pop-ups are annoying. My user experience is disturbed by
having to decline to upgrade to the new IOS every time that pop-up
appears.

why don't you accept it? why are you refusing security/bug fixes??

My iPhone & iPad. My choice. Except that I have no choice available
to stop the annoying pop-ups.

wrong.

for major upgrades (e.g., ios 8-9), there are no repeating popups. at
most there's one, which is easily dismissed.

also, ios is very different than mac/win and has very different design
constraints.

part of its design has security as a priority (which is an afterthought
with windows). if you decline the bug fix/security updates, you risk
being pwned, putting yourself and those you interact with at risk.

put simply, not updating to the latest version is *stupid*.

The first round of "bug repair"
usually comes with a new batch of bugs.

wrong on that too.

the first round of fixes is for bugs that were deferred so that they
could release .0 on schedule, something that's standard in the
industry.

also, we're well beyond the first round of bug fixes. there have been
*eight* updates so far (the current version is 9.3.2), some of which
are *very* important and fix some very serious bugs.

There's a testimonial for Apple: "fewer bugs".

You're the only one taking the position that "bugs" are a good thing.

where in the world did you come up with that rubbish?

i realize that you lie and twist, but you've just taken it to new
extremes.

On 5/26/2016 9:59 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Dunno what all the fuss is about from the anti-10 contingent.

most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.


Kinda like what Apple does?

nothing at all like apple does. not even remotely close.

Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.

that popup is for an incremental update, not a major upgrade (yet
another thing you do not understand), and unlike win10, if you say no,
apple won't install anything against your wishes.

installing an incremental update doesn't change anything that the user
would notice, as it's just numerous bug fixes and security fixes, which
is why it's a *very* good idea to update.

installing a major upgrade *does* change stuff, sometimes significantly
so, which is why for a major upgrade (e.g., ios 8-9), you will at most
get *one* popup (sometimes not even that), with a badge icon staying on
the settings app. that's *it*.

that's *very* different than what's going on with win10. very, very
different.

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.

That didn't happen when I said no. But I forgot, you know everything.





consider a non-geek user who turns on their computer one morning to
find that the system is different from what they had the night before
and a bunch of stuff no longer works. they're not a geek so they don't
even know why it suddenly changed. not cool at all.



probably not true, unless your imaginary non-geek did something stupid.

--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

worse, if the user says no to the win10 upgrade, it upgrades *anyway*.

That didn't happen when I said no.

you haven't kept up.

microsoft just changed things in the past week or so.

But I forgot, you know everything.

best you remember it.

On Thu, 26 May 2016 09:59:08 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| most of the fuss is because microsoft is pushing the upgrade *far* too
| hard and making it nearly impossible to say no.
|
|
| Kinda like what Apple does? Every time I use my iPad a pop-up appears
| telling me there's a new IOS available. The pop-up appears more
| frequently than the W-10 pop-up did on my desktop.
|

That might be, but Apple has always been pushy
and disrespected their customers.You agree to
let them run the show by buying an Apple product.

sheer nonsense.

apple does not run the show. the user is *always* in control. always.

Because they still have the power switch? :-)

Historically, Microsoft has been a sleazy, exploitive
monopolist, but it's only recently that they've begun
to push their way into your use of the product. Their
reasonably good behavior in the past has always been
a very big reason why I've chosen Windows over Macs.
MS primarily targets business use. Apple targets
consumer services.

the only reason you've chosen windows over macs is because of your
****ed up beliefs about apple and the computer industry.

Of course, there's also the crazy price gouging of
Apple and the lack of software,

nonsense. more software runs natively on a mac than any other platform.

but even without those
factors, Apple is just far too nosy and controlling.

nonsense again. apple is very pro-privacy. in fact, they just hired jon
callas. if you don't know who that is (and you probably don't), do a
search.

They
cater to people who don't want to think and just want
a dependable, pretty, functional consumer device.
(Which Mr. Jobs refers to as "thinking different".)

like those people over at nasa that landed a spacecraft on mars, you
mean? it's rather impressive that they could do that, all without
thinking.

in general, apple users think far more than the microsoft sheep.

http://i.imgur.com/iua4C.jpg

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/06/t...-nasa-and-jpl-
is-shown-off-by-mars-curiosi/
The scientists and engineers can request whatever platform they
desire, and they mostly pick Macs. And it isn't specifically for
stuff that runs in X11 either; they use their Macs for everything and
emulate when they need to use a Windows app.

Now, with Win10, MS is taking a big step in that
direction. Which is why Win10 is not a hit with
business.

businesses are very slow to update no matter what it is. many of them
are just completing the win7 migration, so they're not about to upgrade
*again*.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens