2 lens system

"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
So I've got $2,000 to play with. What is the hangup with a 2 lens
kit?

I've had to amend that amount somewhat. I'm now shooting for around $1500.

Buy an old Calument CC410 (20 inch rail and built like main battle
tanks and costs $150 and has all the movements)

Not interested in a rail camera that has to be transported in a box the size
of Davey Jone's locker, or broken down and reassembled...


and 4 used lenses
designed for what you want to do. Lenses: 150mm G-Claron f9 in
shutter for $250 max, this is a macro lens (and enlarger lens) that
can be used also as a main lenses at infinity and f22,

That's exactly the kind of advice I was fishing for. Thanks.


300mm f9 M
Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)

I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or Calumet
version of same).

and maybe a 210mm
f5.6 Schneider($300).

Your prices are a bit lower than what I've been seeing on ebay.

Get a shutter tester so you know what your
actual speeds are (Calumet). Any lens built in the last 40 years that
is in good shape will likely be way better than your technique. Then
don't forget the spot meter, dark cloth, focusing loupe (very very
important), good solid tripod, orange or red filters if you shoot B&W
outside and film holders (none of these things are "optional"). After
that the developing tanks and film scanner or enlarger.

I have many of these things, and the dark cloth and film holders come with
the Shen-Hao.

After you
have made a couple of hundred pictures with this equipment you will
either give up or know what you really want and be able to sell what
does not work for you for what you paid for it, and get what you want.
If you buy brand new super duper APO (and it is not really apo) stuff
you are going to take a real bath if you have sell it.

I've noticed that. They go for $1200 new and $400 used. Ouch!


Good luck and have fun. kirk




--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
So I've got $2,000 to play with. What is the hangup with a 2 lens
kit?

I've had to amend that amount somewhat. I'm now shooting for around $1500.

Buy an old Calument CC410 (20 inch rail and built like main battle
tanks and costs $150 and has all the movements)

Not interested in a rail camera that has to be transported in a box the size
of Davey Jone's locker, or broken down and reassembled...


and 4 used lenses
designed for what you want to do. Lenses: 150mm G-Claron f9 in
shutter for $250 max, this is a macro lens (and enlarger lens) that
can be used also as a main lenses at infinity and f22,

That's exactly the kind of advice I was fishing for. Thanks.


300mm f9 M
Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)

I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or Calumet
version of same).

and maybe a 210mm
f5.6 Schneider($300).

Your prices are a bit lower than what I've been seeing on ebay.

Get a shutter tester so you know what your
actual speeds are (Calumet). Any lens built in the last 40 years that
is in good shape will likely be way better than your technique. Then
don't forget the spot meter, dark cloth, focusing loupe (very very
important), good solid tripod, orange or red filters if you shoot B&W
outside and film holders (none of these things are "optional"). After
that the developing tanks and film scanner or enlarger.

I have many of these things, and the dark cloth and film holders come with
the Shen-Hao.

After you
have made a couple of hundred pictures with this equipment you will
either give up or know what you really want and be able to sell what
does not work for you for what you paid for it, and get what you want.
If you buy brand new super duper APO (and it is not really apo) stuff
you are going to take a real bath if you have sell it.

I've noticed that. They go for $1200 new and $400 used. Ouch!


Good luck and have fun. kirk




--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

Matt Clara wrote (in part):

300mm f9 M Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)


I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or
Calumet version of same).


I have both of those lenses. It turns out that they are both bright enough
to focus in the field. Unless you wish to reduce your depth of field by
opening them up more than f/9, you will probably find them bright enough
for 4x5.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 17:10:00 up 28 days, 20:04, 3 users, load average: 4.39, 4.29, 4.31

Matt Clara wrote (in part):

300mm f9 M Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)


I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or
Calumet version of same).


I have both of those lenses. It turns out that they are both bright enough
to focus in the field. Unless you wish to reduce your depth of field by
opening them up more than f/9, you will probably find them bright enough
for 4x5.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 17:10:00 up 28 days, 20:04, 3 users, load average: 4.39, 4.29, 4.31

Matt,

At $1500 you will have to start with a couple of lenses to keep the
price down. The Calumet was the only quality camera out there I have
any experience with that keeps the price down. Yes it is not
beautiful and it is heavy, but it gets the job done for very little
money. I would like to thank Mr. Beyer for putting me straight on the
rail lengths. The problems with the CC40? numbers is that they are
not actually printed on the cameras. The black ones were the last
ones made and thus are only ~25 years old as opposed to the gray ones
that might be ~30-40 years old. The same model was designed and sold
by Kodak ~50 years ago. So there is another problem, to use a 90 mm
on the longer rail cameras is hard. You have to use a recessed lens
board. It works but you don't have a bunch of movement. I have no
idea what happens with the short rail ones (never used one).

Another cheap altertenative in cameras is a Tachihara or Calumet Field
something (same camera). This is a fold up wooden field camera. It
is light and built just the opposite to the Calumet, more like the
Wright Flyer. It will not work for a 300mm lens (12 inch bellows
draw) unless you have the extension back which was made for it some
years back and is very rare (for good reason). It is also not
wonderful for 90 mm lenses although it will work straight on. To
stabilize this one I put some velcro on top of the front and back
standards and have a short stick that also has velcro on it and I
stick that down on the standards after I have everything set up to
stabilize the standards. Mabye the newer ones are better but mine is
floppy. This one will travel easily and is very light weight. (I
bought mine for $150 as the front focusing knob was broken off and I
got parts from Calumet to fix it. ~$350-600 on ebay.)

My main camera is a Basic B ARAC (~30 years old). Wonderful for the
field. Just set it up on your tripod when you get off the airplane
and off you go. $500 or so used. Just because it has a rail does not
mean you can't use it in the field. With a bag bellows it works great
with wide angle lenses. There is a whole world of old ARCA stuff out
there. The old stuff does not in general work with the new stuff
(F-line). The problem is finding what part you need.

Waste some time looking for these things on Ebay. Have fun.


"Matt Clara" wrote in message . ..
"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
So I've got $2,000 to play with. What is the hangup with a 2 lens
kit?

I've had to amend that amount somewhat. I'm now shooting for around $1500.

Buy an old Calument CC410 (20 inch rail and built like main battle
tanks and costs $150 and has all the movements)

Not interested in a rail camera that has to be transported in a box the size
of Davey Jone's locker, or broken down and reassembled...


and 4 used lenses
designed for what you want to do. Lenses: 150mm G-Claron f9 in
shutter for $250 max, this is a macro lens (and enlarger lens) that
can be used also as a main lenses at infinity and f22,

That's exactly the kind of advice I was fishing for. Thanks.


300mm f9 M
Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)

I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or Calumet
version of same).

and maybe a 210mm
f5.6 Schneider($300).

Your prices are a bit lower than what I've been seeing on ebay.

Get a shutter tester so you know what your
actual speeds are (Calumet). Any lens built in the last 40 years that
is in good shape will likely be way better than your technique. Then
don't forget the spot meter, dark cloth, focusing loupe (very very
important), good solid tripod, orange or red filters if you shoot B&W
outside and film holders (none of these things are "optional"). After
that the developing tanks and film scanner or enlarger.

I have many of these things, and the dark cloth and film holders come with
the Shen-Hao.

After you
have made a couple of hundred pictures with this equipment you will
either give up or know what you really want and be able to sell what
does not work for you for what you paid for it, and get what you want.
If you buy brand new super duper APO (and it is not really apo) stuff
you are going to take a real bath if you have sell it.

I've noticed that. They go for $1200 new and $400 used. Ouch!


Good luck and have fun. kirk

Matt,

At $1500 you will have to start with a couple of lenses to keep the
price down. The Calumet was the only quality camera out there I have
any experience with that keeps the price down. Yes it is not
beautiful and it is heavy, but it gets the job done for very little
money. I would like to thank Mr. Beyer for putting me straight on the
rail lengths. The problems with the CC40? numbers is that they are
not actually printed on the cameras. The black ones were the last
ones made and thus are only ~25 years old as opposed to the gray ones
that might be ~30-40 years old. The same model was designed and sold
by Kodak ~50 years ago. So there is another problem, to use a 90 mm
on the longer rail cameras is hard. You have to use a recessed lens
board. It works but you don't have a bunch of movement. I have no
idea what happens with the short rail ones (never used one).

Another cheap altertenative in cameras is a Tachihara or Calumet Field
something (same camera). This is a fold up wooden field camera. It
is light and built just the opposite to the Calumet, more like the
Wright Flyer. It will not work for a 300mm lens (12 inch bellows
draw) unless you have the extension back which was made for it some
years back and is very rare (for good reason). It is also not
wonderful for 90 mm lenses although it will work straight on. To
stabilize this one I put some velcro on top of the front and back
standards and have a short stick that also has velcro on it and I
stick that down on the standards after I have everything set up to
stabilize the standards. Mabye the newer ones are better but mine is
floppy. This one will travel easily and is very light weight. (I
bought mine for $150 as the front focusing knob was broken off and I
got parts from Calumet to fix it. ~$350-600 on ebay.)

My main camera is a Basic B ARAC (~30 years old). Wonderful for the
field. Just set it up on your tripod when you get off the airplane
and off you go. $500 or so used. Just because it has a rail does not
mean you can't use it in the field. With a bag bellows it works great
with wide angle lenses. There is a whole world of old ARCA stuff out
there. The old stuff does not in general work with the new stuff
(F-line). The problem is finding what part you need.

Waste some time looking for these things on Ebay. Have fun.


"Matt Clara" wrote in message . ..
"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
So I've got $2,000 to play with. What is the hangup with a 2 lens
kit?

I've had to amend that amount somewhat. I'm now shooting for around $1500.

Buy an old Calument CC410 (20 inch rail and built like main battle
tanks and costs $150 and has all the movements)

Not interested in a rail camera that has to be transported in a box the size
of Davey Jone's locker, or broken down and reassembled...


and 4 used lenses
designed for what you want to do. Lenses: 150mm G-Claron f9 in
shutter for $250 max, this is a macro lens (and enlarger lens) that
can be used also as a main lenses at infinity and f22,

That's exactly the kind of advice I was fishing for. Thanks.


300mm f9 M
Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)

I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or Calumet
version of same).

and maybe a 210mm
f5.6 Schneider($300).

Your prices are a bit lower than what I've been seeing on ebay.

Get a shutter tester so you know what your
actual speeds are (Calumet). Any lens built in the last 40 years that
is in good shape will likely be way better than your technique. Then
don't forget the spot meter, dark cloth, focusing loupe (very very
important), good solid tripod, orange or red filters if you shoot B&W
outside and film holders (none of these things are "optional"). After
that the developing tanks and film scanner or enlarger.

I have many of these things, and the dark cloth and film holders come with
the Shen-Hao.

After you
have made a couple of hundred pictures with this equipment you will
either give up or know what you really want and be able to sell what
does not work for you for what you paid for it, and get what you want.
If you buy brand new super duper APO (and it is not really apo) stuff
you are going to take a real bath if you have sell it.

I've noticed that. They go for $1200 new and $400 used. Ouch!


Good luck and have fun. kirk

Another cheap altertenative in cameras is a Tachihara or Calumet Field
something (same camera). This is a fold up wooden field camera. It
is light and built just the opposite to the Calumet, more like the
Wright Flyer. It will not work for a 300mm lens (12 inch bellows
draw) unless you have the extension back which was made for it some
years back and is very rare (for good reason). It is also not
wonderful for 90 mm lenses although it will work straight on.

There's a lot of misinformation crammed into a couple sentences with the
above as it relates to any Tachihara made since the late 1980s and that has
been properly cared for. It looks like he bought an old beat up Tachihara
since he says he paid $150 for it and the focusing knob was broken off. That
price is about half to a third of the usual going price for a used Tachihara
in good condition.

I bought mine new around 1996. My 300mm Nikkor M lens worked fine on it. The
Tachihara's 13 inch bellows extension allowed me to focus to about 10-12
feet, plenty close for a 300mm lens for most purposes. My Fuji 400mm T also
worked fine. Second, the Tachihara actually is wonderful for 90mm, I used a
90mm F5.6 Super Angulon on my Tachihara all the time and had plenty of room
for movements. Maybe the bellows on his has become stiff with age or perhaps
all that velcro and other stuff he's stuck on it are interfering with the
movements. In any event, there's something wrong with his camera if he can
only use a 90mm lens straight on. The Tachihara actually works with some
room for movements with a 75mm lens and will go as short as a 65mm lens
though I'm not sure about movements with that lens. I ended up not buying
the 65mm I tested on the Tachihara so I didn't have a lot of experience with
the lens but it did work on the camera. Finally, the Tachihara is a very
nicely built camera, about the same quality as any other wood field camera
that I've used except for the Ebony SVTe for which I paid about five times
what I paid for the Tachihara.

The "Calumet Field something" that he's groping for is the Calumet
Woodfield. That camera was a Tachihara on which Calumet affixed a Calument
decal and then charged a couple hundred dollars more for it. I don't think
Calumet sells these any more.

The Tachihara used to be a clear "best value for the money" among wood field
cameras until the Shen Hao came along. Now there's something to be said for
either of them as best value, the Shen Hao has a couple movements that the
Tachihara doesn't have and also will take a bag bellows. OTOH, the Shen Hao
weighs about two pounds more than the Tachihara.


"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
Matt,

At $1500 you will have to start with a couple of lenses to keep the
price down. The Calumet was the only quality camera out there I have
any experience with that keeps the price down. Yes it is not
beautiful and it is heavy, but it gets the job done for very little
money. I would like to thank Mr. Beyer for putting me straight on the
rail lengths. The problems with the CC40? numbers is that they are
not actually printed on the cameras. The black ones were the last
ones made and thus are only ~25 years old as opposed to the gray ones
that might be ~30-40 years old. The same model was designed and sold
by Kodak ~50 years ago. So there is another problem, to use a 90 mm
on the longer rail cameras is hard. You have to use a recessed lens
board. It works but you don't have a bunch of movement. I have no
idea what happens with the short rail ones (never used one).

Another cheap altertenative in cameras is a Tachihara or Calumet Field
something (same camera). This is a fold up wooden field camera. It
is light and built just the opposite to the Calumet, more like the
Wright Flyer. It will not work for a 300mm lens (12 inch bellows
draw) unless you have the extension back which was made for it some
years back and is very rare (for good reason). It is also not
wonderful for 90 mm lenses although it will work straight on. To
stabilize this one I put some velcro on top of the front and back
standards and have a short stick that also has velcro on it and I
stick that down on the standards after I have everything set up to
stabilize the standards. Mabye the newer ones are better but mine is
floppy. This one will travel easily and is very light weight. (I
bought mine for $150 as the front focusing knob was broken off and I
got parts from Calumet to fix it. ~$350-600 on ebay.)

My main camera is a Basic B ARAC (~30 years old). Wonderful for the
field. Just set it up on your tripod when you get off the airplane
and off you go. $500 or so used. Just because it has a rail does not
mean you can't use it in the field. With a bag bellows it works great
with wide angle lenses. There is a whole world of old ARCA stuff out
there. The old stuff does not in general work with the new stuff
(F-line). The problem is finding what part you need.

Waste some time looking for these things on Ebay. Have fun.


"Matt Clara" wrote in message
. ..
"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
So I've got $2,000 to play with. What is the hangup with a 2 lens
kit?

I've had to amend that amount somewhat. I'm now shooting for around
$1500.

Buy an old Calument CC410 (20 inch rail and built like main battle
tanks and costs $150 and has all the movements)

Not interested in a rail camera that has to be transported in a box the
size
of Davey Jone's locker, or broken down and reassembled...


and 4 used lenses
designed for what you want to do. Lenses: 150mm G-Claron f9 in
shutter for $250 max, this is a macro lens (and enlarger lens) that
can be used also as a main lenses at infinity and f22,

That's exactly the kind of advice I was fishing for. Thanks.


300mm f9 M
Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)

I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or
Calumet
version of same).

and maybe a 210mm
f5.6 Schneider($300).

Your prices are a bit lower than what I've been seeing on ebay.

Get a shutter tester so you know what your
actual speeds are (Calumet). Any lens built in the last 40 years that
is in good shape will likely be way better than your technique. Then
don't forget the spot meter, dark cloth, focusing loupe (very very
important), good solid tripod, orange or red filters if you shoot B&W
outside and film holders (none of these things are "optional"). After
that the developing tanks and film scanner or enlarger.

I have many of these things, and the dark cloth and film holders come
with
the Shen-Hao.

After you
have made a couple of hundred pictures with this equipment you will
either give up or know what you really want and be able to sell what
does not work for you for what you paid for it, and get what you want.
If you buy brand new super duper APO (and it is not really apo) stuff
you are going to take a real bath if you have sell it.

I've noticed that. They go for $1200 new and $400 used. Ouch!


Good luck and have fun. kirk

Another cheap altertenative in cameras is a Tachihara or Calumet Field
something (same camera). This is a fold up wooden field camera. It
is light and built just the opposite to the Calumet, more like the
Wright Flyer. It will not work for a 300mm lens (12 inch bellows
draw) unless you have the extension back which was made for it some
years back and is very rare (for good reason). It is also not
wonderful for 90 mm lenses although it will work straight on.

There's a lot of misinformation crammed into a couple sentences with the
above as it relates to any Tachihara made since the late 1980s and that has
been properly cared for. It looks like he bought an old beat up Tachihara
since he says he paid $150 for it and the focusing knob was broken off. That
price is about half to a third of the usual going price for a used Tachihara
in good condition.

I bought mine new around 1996. My 300mm Nikkor M lens worked fine on it. The
Tachihara's 13 inch bellows extension allowed me to focus to about 10-12
feet, plenty close for a 300mm lens for most purposes. My Fuji 400mm T also
worked fine. Second, the Tachihara actually is wonderful for 90mm, I used a
90mm F5.6 Super Angulon on my Tachihara all the time and had plenty of room
for movements. Maybe the bellows on his has become stiff with age or perhaps
all that velcro and other stuff he's stuck on it are interfering with the
movements. In any event, there's something wrong with his camera if he can
only use a 90mm lens straight on. The Tachihara actually works with some
room for movements with a 75mm lens and will go as short as a 65mm lens
though I'm not sure about movements with that lens. I ended up not buying
the 65mm I tested on the Tachihara so I didn't have a lot of experience with
the lens but it did work on the camera. Finally, the Tachihara is a very
nicely built camera, about the same quality as any other wood field camera
that I've used except for the Ebony SVTe for which I paid about five times
what I paid for the Tachihara.

The "Calumet Field something" that he's groping for is the Calumet
Woodfield. That camera was a Tachihara on which Calumet affixed a Calument
decal and then charged a couple hundred dollars more for it. I don't think
Calumet sells these any more.

The Tachihara used to be a clear "best value for the money" among wood field
cameras until the Shen Hao came along. Now there's something to be said for
either of them as best value, the Shen Hao has a couple movements that the
Tachihara doesn't have and also will take a bag bellows. OTOH, the Shen Hao
weighs about two pounds more than the Tachihara.


"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
Matt,

At $1500 you will have to start with a couple of lenses to keep the
price down. The Calumet was the only quality camera out there I have
any experience with that keeps the price down. Yes it is not
beautiful and it is heavy, but it gets the job done for very little
money. I would like to thank Mr. Beyer for putting me straight on the
rail lengths. The problems with the CC40? numbers is that they are
not actually printed on the cameras. The black ones were the last
ones made and thus are only ~25 years old as opposed to the gray ones
that might be ~30-40 years old. The same model was designed and sold
by Kodak ~50 years ago. So there is another problem, to use a 90 mm
on the longer rail cameras is hard. You have to use a recessed lens
board. It works but you don't have a bunch of movement. I have no
idea what happens with the short rail ones (never used one).

Another cheap altertenative in cameras is a Tachihara or Calumet Field
something (same camera). This is a fold up wooden field camera. It
is light and built just the opposite to the Calumet, more like the
Wright Flyer. It will not work for a 300mm lens (12 inch bellows
draw) unless you have the extension back which was made for it some
years back and is very rare (for good reason). It is also not
wonderful for 90 mm lenses although it will work straight on. To
stabilize this one I put some velcro on top of the front and back
standards and have a short stick that also has velcro on it and I
stick that down on the standards after I have everything set up to
stabilize the standards. Mabye the newer ones are better but mine is
floppy. This one will travel easily and is very light weight. (I
bought mine for $150 as the front focusing knob was broken off and I
got parts from Calumet to fix it. ~$350-600 on ebay.)

My main camera is a Basic B ARAC (~30 years old). Wonderful for the
field. Just set it up on your tripod when you get off the airplane
and off you go. $500 or so used. Just because it has a rail does not
mean you can't use it in the field. With a bag bellows it works great
with wide angle lenses. There is a whole world of old ARCA stuff out
there. The old stuff does not in general work with the new stuff
(F-line). The problem is finding what part you need.

Waste some time looking for these things on Ebay. Have fun.


"Matt Clara" wrote in message
. ..
"Kirk Fry" wrote in message
om...
So I've got $2,000 to play with. What is the hangup with a 2 lens
kit?

I've had to amend that amount somewhat. I'm now shooting for around
$1500.

Buy an old Calument CC410 (20 inch rail and built like main battle
tanks and costs $150 and has all the movements)

Not interested in a rail camera that has to be transported in a box the
size
of Davey Jone's locker, or broken down and reassembled...


and 4 used lenses
designed for what you want to do. Lenses: 150mm G-Claron f9 in
shutter for $250 max, this is a macro lens (and enlarger lens) that
can be used also as a main lenses at infinity and f22,

That's exactly the kind of advice I was fishing for. Thanks.


300mm f9 M
Nikkor, $500, 90mm f8 Schneider Super Angulon ($350)

I'm hoping for something faster, like the f6.8 Rodenstock 90mm (or
Calumet
version of same).

and maybe a 210mm
f5.6 Schneider($300).

Your prices are a bit lower than what I've been seeing on ebay.

Get a shutter tester so you know what your
actual speeds are (Calumet). Any lens built in the last 40 years that
is in good shape will likely be way better than your technique. Then
don't forget the spot meter, dark cloth, focusing loupe (very very
important), good solid tripod, orange or red filters if you shoot B&W
outside and film holders (none of these things are "optional"). After
that the developing tanks and film scanner or enlarger.

I have many of these things, and the dark cloth and film holders come
with
the Shen-Hao.

After you
have made a couple of hundred pictures with this equipment you will
either give up or know what you really want and be able to sell what
does not work for you for what you paid for it, and get what you want.
If you buy brand new super duper APO (and it is not really apo) stuff
you are going to take a real bath if you have sell it.

I've noticed that. They go for $1200 new and $400 used. Ouch!


Good luck and have fun. kirk