Ping Tony Cooper

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:02:48 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

As most of you know, I have no experience with digital cameras, so you
can feel free to tell me why my old techniques won't work.

In the old days, I shot a lot of high school football with my 35mm SLR
and a fairly powerful manual strobe. I used Tri-X (ASA 400), and flash
sync shutter speed of 1/30. The strobe could light up the near side hash
mark at about f/11. This exposure combination could stop the action with
the flash, but was not enough to allow the ambient field lighting to
register. Of course, this required that I wait for the action to come to
where I was "preset", but since the newspaper (and the yearbook) only
had room for one or two photos of each game, I had no problem getting
what I needed.

The point being that it is the flash that is stopping the action, not
the shutter. Will this not work with the D300 or similar cameras?

it would work, and actually easier with a modern flash.

More proof that you have no actual experience in this area. Even if
you didn't get kicked out of the game for using a flash, it would be
unacceptable conduct at a game.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 09/25/2018 08:06 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 18:24:44 -0400, Ken Hart
wrote:

On 09/24/2018 08:51 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 16:23:55 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

I thought that you might find this interesting. A new Fujifilm X-T3 owner
trying the new 30fps burst mode, with appropriate AF-C& tracking in the X-T3
at his son’s football game at Wheaton College over the weekend, posted this
series on Flickr.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30161756@N00/albums/72157700104730751


I just shot part of a game Thursday night and caught middle grandson
(#9) flagrantly fouling a defensive player (#54) on a punt return.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Current/i...18-09-21-8.jpg

I'm still using my Nikon D300, so I'm very limited at weekday games.
The D300 is incapable of low-light photography at a fast shutter speed
at any ISO, and I'm done shooting about half time at a game that
starts at 5:30.

This grandson is on the (high school) freshman team, and his
year-older brother plays JV. That game starts after the freshman game
is over, so I never get photos of that game.

The punter in the Wheaton shots is a good example of 30fps series
because the photographer can isolate one player that he knows will be
a good subject, but he did miss the toe-on-the-ball shot. He got the
laces on the ball on what was probably not that good a punt. Looks
like it would go out of bounds to the right.

What that pfs would be good for is following a pass receiver and
hoping for a fingertip catch.

When I lived in Chicago, Wheaton was considered to be the Oral Roberts
University of the Midwest.


As most of you know, I have no experience with digital cameras, so you
can feel free to tell me why my old techniques won't work.

In the old days, I shot a lot of high school football with my 35mm SLR
and a fairly powerful manual strobe. I used Tri-X (ASA 400), and flash
sync shutter speed of 1/30. The strobe could light up the near side hash
mark at about f/11. This exposure combination could stop the action with
the flash, but was not enough to allow the ambient field lighting to
register. Of course, this required that I wait for the action to come to
where I was "preset", but since the newspaper (and the yearbook) only
had room for one or two photos of each game, I had no problem getting
what I needed.

The point being that it is the flash that is stopping the action, not
the shutter. Will this not work with the D300 or similar cameras?

You can't use a flash at a high school football game. Not allowed.

My high school football photography was in the 1970's and 80's. I doubt
that the players on the field were distracted by the flash.


There are people up in the stands using P&S cameras that don't know
how to turn the flash off, but the flash from there is not really a
problem and not at all effective. Even so, they will be told to stop
using the flash.

When the boys were playing Pop Warner football, I was allowed on the
sidelines because I knew the coaches. Now that the boys are in high
school, I can't get on the sidelines or even close. I have to stay
behind a fence that is set back from the track that surrounds the
field.

Only a school photographer with a school-issued badge is allowed on
the sidelines.

At that time, I was credentialed by the local newspapers and the school
yearbook (while I was still in school). I was permitted inside the
fence, up to the 'out-of-bounds' mark.

There's even a new rule this year that I can't bring my camera bag
into the stadium. Any bag or knapsack must be transparent plastic.
Schools are very security conscious, and I can't blame them.


That certainly sucks for you! Aren't they aware of the "Grandfather with
a camera" exception?

--
Ken Hart

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 20:22:29 -0400, Ken Hart
wrote:

You can't use a flash at a high school football game. Not allowed.

My high school football photography was in the 1970's and 80's. I doubt
that the players on the field were distracted by the flash.

That's really beside the point. As long as there's that one
theoretical possibility that a flash could distract a pass receiver or
defender running down the sideline, the rule becomes inarguable.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Bingo. And the context of a night football game under the lights
suggests an environment where the Exposure Value (EV) is probably
around an 8. At ISO 800 (max) for the D300, with a (probably
consumer grade zoom) telephoto lens for the application which is
probably no faster than f/5.6, this implies an exposure solution
with no faster than an 1/60th sec shutter speed ... which won't
freeze motion or be adequate for the focal length.

You nailed it. Exactly what I'm dealing with.

if you're shooting iso 800 with an f/5.6 lens at 1/60th, then you're
doing it very wrong.

use an f/2.8 lens at iso 1600 for 3 more stops, which will get you
1/500th, and that's still not at the limit. there are f/2 lenses
(although not cheap) and a d300 can go to iso 6400 (although that's
extended mode). it's noisy, but that can be fixed in post.

tl;dr the camera is capable. the user is not.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

You can't use a flash at a high school football game. Not allowed.

My high school football photography was in the 1970's and 80's. I doubt
that the players on the field were distracted by the flash.

That's really beside the point. As long as there's that one
theoretical possibility that a flash could distract a pass receiver or
defender running down the sideline, the rule becomes inarguable.

if a football player is distracted that easily, then he's not very good.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

As most of you know, I have no experience with digital cameras, so you
can feel free to tell me why my old techniques won't work.

In the old days, I shot a lot of high school football with my 35mm SLR
and a fairly powerful manual strobe. I used Tri-X (ASA 400), and flash
sync shutter speed of 1/30. The strobe could light up the near side hash
mark at about f/11. This exposure combination could stop the action with
the flash, but was not enough to allow the ambient field lighting to
register. Of course, this required that I wait for the action to come to
where I was "preset", but since the newspaper (and the yearbook) only
had room for one or two photos of each game, I had no problem getting
what I needed.

The point being that it is the flash that is stopping the action, not
the shutter. Will this not work with the D300 or similar cameras?

it would work, and actually easier with a modern flash.

More proof that you have no actual experience in this area. Even if
you didn't get kicked out of the game for using a flash, it would be
unacceptable conduct at a game.

more proof that you're just spewing. i never suggested using a flash.

ken asked if his technique using flash would work, and it would.

whether it's permitted or not is separate issue and up to individual
schools.

there is no federal ban on using flash at high school games. some high
schools allow it and others do not. another thing you got wrong. two
for two.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:


you changed your statement from 'incapable' to 'unsatisfactory'. two
very different things.

Another thing you are not good at: reading with understanding. The
camera is incapable. The results are unsatisfactory. No change at
all in the statement.

if the camera was incapable, it would not work. that's what incapable
means.

No it doesn't. More ignorance on your part.

more insults on your part.

If it doesn't work, it's
inoperative.

inoperative means the camera does not work at all. if that's the case,
you have bigger problems.

Incapable means "unable to do or achieve something". What
the "something" is, is produce a satisfactory image.

satisfactory is subjective. capable is not.

the camera *can* take low light photos at any iso, and very
satisfactory ones.

*you* might not be able to do so, but that's *your* limitation not that
of the camera.

tl;dr user error.

Besides, I said the camera is "incapable of low-light photography at a
fast shutter speed at any ISO".

which is an incorrect statement.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 21:37:49 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Bingo. And the context of a night football game under the lights
suggests an environment where the Exposure Value (EV) is probably
around an 8. At ISO 800 (max) for the D300, with a (probably
consumer grade zoom) telephoto lens for the application which is
probably no faster than f/5.6, this implies an exposure solution
with no faster than an 1/60th sec shutter speed ... which won't
freeze motion or be adequate for the focal length.

You nailed it. Exactly what I'm dealing with.

if you're shooting iso 800 with an f/5.6 lens at 1/60th, then you're
doing it very wrong.

I'm not. That's what the other poster said. What I'm dealing with is
that I'd have to shoot at 1/60th, and that's not acceptable.

Learn to read what is posted.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 18:24:44 -0400, Ken Hart
wrote:

On 09/24/2018 08:51 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 16:23:55 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

I thought that you might find this interesting. A new Fujifilm X-T3 owner
trying the new 30fps burst mode, with appropriate AF-C& tracking in the X-T3
at his son’s football game at Wheaton College over the weekend, posted this
series on Flickr.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30161756@N00/albums/72157700104730751


I just shot part of a game Thursday night and caught middle grandson
(#9) flagrantly fouling a defensive player (#54) on a punt return.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Current/i...18-09-21-8.jpg

I'm still using my Nikon D300, so I'm very limited at weekday games.
The D300 is incapable of low-light photography at a fast shutter speed
at any ISO, and I'm done shooting about half time at a game that
starts at 5:30.

This grandson is on the (high school) freshman team, and his
year-older brother plays JV. That game starts after the freshman game
is over, so I never get photos of that game.

The punter in the Wheaton shots is a good example of 30fps series
because the photographer can isolate one player that he knows will be
a good subject, but he did miss the toe-on-the-ball shot. He got the
laces on the ball on what was probably not that good a punt. Looks
like it would go out of bounds to the right.

What that pfs would be good for is following a pass receiver and
hoping for a fingertip catch.

When I lived in Chicago, Wheaton was considered to be the Oral Roberts
University of the Midwest.


As most of you know, I have no experience with digital cameras, so you
can feel free to tell me why my old techniques won't work.

In the old days, I shot a lot of high school football with my 35mm SLR
and a fairly powerful manual strobe. I used Tri-X (ASA 400), and flash
sync shutter speed of 1/30. The strobe could light up the near side hash
mark at about f/11. This exposure combination could stop the action with
the flash, but was not enough to allow the ambient field lighting to
register. Of course, this required that I wait for the action to come to
where I was "preset", but since the newspaper (and the yearbook) only
had room for one or two photos of each game, I had no problem getting
what I needed.

The point being that it is the flash that is stopping the action, not
the shutter. Will this not work with the D300 or similar cameras?

It might annoy that wide receiver you just blinded...

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Bingo. And the context of a night football game under the lights
suggests an environment where the Exposure Value (EV) is probably
around an 8. At ISO 800 (max) for the D300, with a (probably
consumer grade zoom) telephoto lens for the application which is
probably no faster than f/5.6, this implies an exposure solution
with no faster than an 1/60th sec shutter speed ... which won't
freeze motion or be adequate for the focal length.

You nailed it. Exactly what I'm dealing with.

if you're shooting iso 800 with an f/5.6 lens at 1/60th, then you're
doing it very wrong.

I'm not. That's what the other poster said. What I'm dealing with is
that I'd have to shoot at 1/60th, and that's not acceptable.

except that you don't have to, as i explained and which you snipped.

tl;dr you're doing it wrong.