Battery question

Le 16/10/2012 02:07, nospam a écrit :

alkaline batteries are 1.5v when new. nicad and nimh batteries are 1.2v
when fully charged. the difference almost always does not matter.

It can matter a lot. I had once device that didn't work at all with
rechargeables

right today, Shure pro mikes do not accept 9V rechargeables

jdd

Le 16/10/2012 11:40, ASCII a écrit :

AAs almost anywhere whereas my Li-ions are only available at photo stores for
quite a bit of expense. The charger is small enough to take wherever I go for
an extended stay as long as I don't forget to pack it.

li-ion from ebay works very well. In general li-ion keeps remarquably
the charge (several month), much better than usual AA batteries

jdd

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:50:50 -0400, wrote:

I'm looking at two digital camers, a Fujifilm FinePix HS30EXR and a
FinePix
HS25EXR. Almost identical cameras with a few minor (to me anyway)
differences.
But the big one I'm trying to decide is 4 AA batteris in the FinePix
HS25EXR
versus am Li-ion battery in the FinePix HS30EXR. My first thought was that
the
AA batteries would be easy to replace when I needed them, especially if I
was on
the road. I can easily buy them. Camera supposedly gets 35o shots out of
the
batteries. The Li-ion supposedly gets 600 shots. But of course, it has to
then
be recharged, Any thoughts as to which power supply is the better? Thanks.

How long should a spare battery, or even a battery in a camera which has
been
turned of and unused for a while, hold it's charge? Can I count on a spare
battery being ready to go when I need it?

+++++++++
I have Li-ion batteries that still have a charge after setting unused in the
camera for 2-3 months. When not used they hold their charge much better
than other rechargeable batteries. Non OEM Li-ion batteries are available
and the prices are all over the scale. The cheapest one are just that cheap
and not worth buying. I have had good luck with non OEM batteries that cost
less than half of the OEM price. Chargers are available on e-bay for almost
all Li-ion batteries often in a kit that allows you to charge using 120/240
or 12 volts for prices as low as $20 or so.
Ron
+++++++++

Le 16/10/2012 15:11, Ron a écrit :

+++++++++
I have Li-ion batteries that still have a charge after setting unused
in the camera for 2-3 months. When not used they hold their charge
much better than other rechargeable batteries. Non OEM Li-ion
batteries are available and the prices are all over the scale. The
cheapest one are just that cheap and not worth buying. I have had
good luck with non OEM batteries that cost less than half of the OEM
price. Chargers are available on e-bay for almost all Li-ion
batteries often in a kit that allows you to charge using 120/240 or 12
volts for prices as low as $20 or so.
Ron
+++++++++

I second this. do not take the lower price, the others are good

jdd

On 10/15/2012 08:31 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , philo
wrote:

I found that alkaline batteries worked well enough but as I said
you have to keep buying them all the time so in the long run are more
expensive.

alkaline batteries don't last very long because of the high current
demands of a digital camera,

Plus they have a nominal voltage of only 1.2 v

alkaline batteries are 1.5v when new. nicad and nimh batteries are 1.2v
when fully charged. the difference almost always does not matter.

Believe me it does.
The camera I had would not function under 4.5 volts or so

4x 1.2v nimh = 4.8v, so even with nimh, it should still have worked.

nevertheless, i said 'almost always'. yours was one of the few devices
where may have mattered. nearly all devices work just fine with nimh.

Something went wrong here I was talking about Nicads not nimh

they're both 1.2v.

At any rate, with an Alkaline battery the staring voltage would be 6
volts. It would take a while before the voltage would go down to 4.5 v

not that long, depending on load.

With a set of Nicad batteries it did not take too long to go from 4.8 v
to 4.5 volts totally unacceptable life

the discharge curve for nicad/nimh is flatter than alkaline and 4.5v =
1.12v/cell which is nearly discharged.


snipped for brevity

Discharge curves aside I am going by empirical results.

In my camera I could get a minimum of 20 photo shoots on a set of
alkaline batteries. With Nicads I could not necessarily even get through
one photo shoot.

I have some 12v equipment that has dummy/jumper batteries to be used
as the battery compartment takes either 8 alkaline or 10 nicads


--
https://www.createspace.com/3707686

In article , jdanield wrote:

alkaline batteries are 1.5v when new. nicad and nimh batteries are 1.2v
when fully charged. the difference almost always does not matter.

It can matter a lot. I had once device that didn't work at all with
rechargeables

there is always an exception. as i said, it normally does not matter.

right today, Shure pro mikes do not accept 9V rechargeables

a 9v rechargeable will be 7.2v, which is a big difference.

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

So you're not painting a very positive picture of Li-ion batteris?

No, he's not, and it's not what matches my experience. I gave up AA
cells as handling four cells rather one Li-ion battery is a lot more
inconvenient when you need to change batteries in the field. But most
modern cameras will get through at least a whole day with a single set
of AA cells or Li-ion battery.

many can go much longer than a day. some cameras get 2000 or more
photos on a single charge. in typical use, that will last a long time.

When buying spare batteries, don't buy the cheapest "OEM battery" on
e-bay, but don't pay the full camera manufacturer's price either.

true, and beware of batteries on ebay. they might be ok, but they also
might not.

I have read that some Li-ion batteries need a couple of charge/discharge
cycles to reach full capacity, although I'm not sure how true that is.

it's bull****.

what happens is that the device needs a couple of cycles to update its
calibration of the battery capacity so that it reports it accurately to
the user.

for the first couple of cycles, what it's saying is not necessarily
correct, so it may appear that the battery is gaining capacity, but it
really isn't.

BTW: it's a pity that no "consumer champion" has not forced a
standardisation of Li-ion cells between manufacturers.

it won't happen, since being tied to a specific size restricts what a
manufacturer can do.

In article , philo
wrote:

Discharge curves aside I am going by empirical results.

your results can't change the battery chemistry.

In my camera I could get a minimum of 20 photo shoots on a set of
alkaline batteries.

you must mean 20 photos. alkaline batteries can't source enough current
to last very long in a digital camera. they're usually drained in a
very short time. they work well for low current applications, such as
radios, and in fact, once they're exhausted in a camera, you can put
them in a radio and continue to use them for quite a while.

With Nicads I could not necessarily even get through
one photo shoot.

then they're defective, which is not surprising since nimh replaced
nicads long ago. it's time to safely get rid of your nicads and replace
them with nimh.

I have some 12v equipment that has dummy/jumper batteries to be used
as the battery compartment takes either 8 alkaline or 10 nicads

8 alkalines = 12v
8 nicads = 9.6v; 10 nicads = 12v

9.6v versus 12v might make a difference, thus the additional 2
batteries to make it 12v.

most devices take 2 or 4 batteries, and the difference in voltage does
not matter.

On 10/16/2012 11:23 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , philo
wrote:

Discharge curves aside I am going by empirical results.

your results can't change the battery chemistry.

In my camera I could get a minimum of 20 photo shoots on a set of
alkaline batteries.

you must mean 20 photos. alkaline batteries can't source enough current
to last very long in a digital camera. they're usually drained in a
very short time. they work well for low current applications, such as
radios, and in fact, once they're exhausted in a camera, you can put
them in a radio and continue to use them for quite a while.

W




You are thinking of those (I believe now obsolete) standard carbon
batteries. I am talking about alkaline batteries.

Depending on the mfg they are approx the same ampere-hour as a nicad
though there is quite a bit of variance.


If two batteries have about the same amp-hour
it does not take a genius to know the ones that have a higher voltage
will produce more power

In article , philo
wrote:

Discharge curves aside I am going by empirical results.

your results can't change the battery chemistry.

In my camera I could get a minimum of 20 photo shoots on a set of
alkaline batteries.

you must mean 20 photos. alkaline batteries can't source enough current
to last very long in a digital camera. they're usually drained in a
very short time. they work well for low current applications, such as
radios, and in fact, once they're exhausted in a camera, you can put
them in a radio and continue to use them for quite a while.

You are thinking of those (I believe now obsolete) standard carbon
batteries.

nope.

I am talking about alkaline batteries.

so am i. in fact, i specifically said alkaline.

Depending on the mfg they are approx the same ampere-hour as a nicad
though there is quite a bit of variance.

alkaline batteries actually have much higher capacity than nicad and
they're comparable or a little higher than nimh, but as i said, they
can only realize that capacity at lower current draws. in a camera,
where current draw is high, alkaline won't last long, but in a radio,
where current draw is very low, alkaline will last quite a while.

If two batteries have about the same amp-hour
it does not take a genius to know the ones that have a higher voltage
will produce more power

apparently it does, because the battery chemistry and specifically, its
internal resistance, makes a big difference.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/rising_internal_resistance
Alkaline, carbon-zinc and other primary batteries have a relatively
high internal resistance, and this limits its use to low-current
applications such as flashlights, remote controls, portable
entertainment devices and kitchen clocks. As these batteries
discharge, the resistance increases further. This explains the
relative short runtime when using alkaline cells in digital cameras.*