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New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 18th 06, 12:57 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Wayne J. Cosshall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

James McNangle wrote:

Perhaps the clue to the problem with your web site is contained in the line "The
online magazine and reference site for photography, graphic design, digital art,
Web design, video, illustration and image creation." Any one of these subjects
would be quite sufficient for a single web site, but you have them all together,
all mixed up in a horrendous jumble. And, even worse, this horrendous jumble is
reproduced on every page. About the only thing I can say in favour of the site
is that it doesn't sing or dance.

Consider the page http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=799.

This is titled "A day of shooting with my Infrared converted Canon 350D". By
the time someone gets to this page all they want to see is what results you have
managed to get. But what do they get?

On the left, a column 160 pixels wide, containing a plague of totally irrelevant
links. On the right, another column 160 pixels wide, containing another plague
of equally irrelevant links. In the middle a couple of ads, then an
introduction, and yet another column 160 pixels wide, containing yet another
plague of irrelevant links. Below this we finally get to the demonstration
photos, all 450 pixels wide.

If you threw out all this rubbish, or sorted it into categories, with the
material relevant to each category on a separate page, so that this page only
displayed the actual test photos and your comments on them, you could make the
pictures much bigger, so that the viewer could really see what you are on about,
without being distracted by a whole heap of totally irrelevant crap.


James McNangle


Ok, I get your point, though i can't help thinking you really don't need
to be so rude about it.

I am considering a redesign of the site and I'll take this onboard.

Wayne

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
  #22  
Old December 18th 06, 01:01 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Wayne J. Cosshall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

Thanks Duncan and Poxy for taking the time to reply meaningfully.

The challenge with a site with so much content is to strike a balance
between showing what is there and making it easy to find. It seems I
have struck the wrong balance, so I will go back and reconsider the site
design and see what i can come up with.

Cheers,

Wayne

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
  #23  
Old December 18th 06, 09:30 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
JC Dill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:57:55 +1100, "Wayne J. Cosshall"
wrote:

Ok, I get your point, though i can't help thinking you really don't need
to be so rude about it.


Rude? I didn't see anything rude.

It seems that perhaps you have a problem with your overly cluttered
page's content being called "crap" but really, to the visitor, that's
exactly what it is. It's cluttering up the page and making it very
hard for them to find any valuable content.

Frankly, I find it very ironic that your site claims to be a reference
site for "Web design" given the site's own very poor design.

jc

--

"The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
of different horses without having to own that many."
~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
  #24  
Old December 18th 06, 09:56 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Wayne J. Cosshall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

JC Dill wrote:

Rude? I didn't see anything rude.

It seems that perhaps you have a problem with your overly cluttered
page's content being called "crap" but really, to the visitor, that's
exactly what it is. It's cluttering up the page and making it very
hard for them to find any valuable content.

Frankly, I find it very ironic that your site claims to be a reference
site for "Web design" given the site's own very poor design.

jc

I think anyone who has worked as hard as I have on the site might find
the word crap rude.

Anyway, anyone here who has actually designed a web site with so much
content will know it is a tough balancing act. For example, I've been
criticized for having the usability tip message at the top of the home
page, yet I have had a good number of emails from people thanking me for
putting it there as they did not know this and it has helped them not
just with my site but many others. You can't suit everyone.

My priority with the redesign of the site (which is the current design)
was to put 'above the fold' enough indications of other content on the
site so that if people came straight into an article page, they could
see that there was much more available. Hence the article categories and
types down the left, for example, and the recent articles list on the
article pages. It has grown and evolved and, as people have pointed out,
become cluttered. I suspect that if you ran a similar site such a thing
might also happen.

It is clearly time for a redesign, and I was heading towards it before
this thread started. It has been clear for some time that the article
page, for example, needed more width for the actual content so I could
use larger pictures. I am also considering a home page design which
allows me to highlight certain 'hot' content whilst also providing easy
access to other parts of the site. Plus I've wanted to add a search page
for some time, for example. Part of this process is looking at how other
similar sites have done it and part is thinking about what is most
important, etc.

Anyway, there should be a new design ready in January.

Cheers,

Wayne

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
  #25  
Old December 18th 06, 10:38 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Frank ess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,232
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

Wayne J. Cosshall wrote:
JC Dill wrote:

Rude? I didn't see anything rude.

It seems that perhaps you have a problem with your overly cluttered
page's content being called "crap" but really, to the visitor,
that's
exactly what it is. It's cluttering up the page and making it very
hard for them to find any valuable content.

Frankly, I find it very ironic that your site claims to be a
reference site for "Web design" given the site's own very poor
design. jc

I think anyone who has worked as hard as I have on the site might
find
the word crap rude.

Anyway, anyone here who has actually designed a web site with so
much
content will know it is a tough balancing act ...


snip

Anyway, there should be a new design ready in January.

Cheers,

Wayne


I think you should tell the crap-sayers to take a hike. You got to
figure anyone who is serious about taking advantage of your valuable
content will be willing to wade through chest-high crap to do so. They
just have to trust you that it is in there somewhere, and be
persistent; no other investment required. I mean after all, you are
offering important material all at your own expense, right? Why? I
wonder.

Here's another site with a lot of content, and it's clear the
designer* doesn't care if a casual visitor sees crap before finding
whatever jewels are distributed within it. Of course it's apparent
he's not attempting to be all things to all enquirers on any given
subject, either. It's just a friendly amateur offering a casual stroll
and (he hopes) pleasant experience.
http://home.san.rr.com/fsheff/index.html

--
*Frank ess
I'm rubber and you're glue,
it bounces off me and sticks to you.
-- McLeod

  #26  
Old December 18th 06, 11:26 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
James McNangle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

"Wayne J. Cosshall" wrote:

Ok, I get your point, though i can't help thinking you really don't need
to be so rude about it.

I am considering a redesign of the site and I'll take this onboard.


Good. I assume that you hope that people will come to your web site regularly,
but in its present form I find it quite repellent.

The biggest problems with it are that you try to carry all your baggage with
you, all the time, and you do not appear to have made any effort to sort it
logically.

I would suggest that the home page should carry a statement of what you are
trying to achieve on the site, together with a small number of links to
subsidiary pages for each major topic. These again should contain a statement
of purpose, together with links to pages covering particular aspects of the
topic. If you must carry advertisements, these should be placed so they do not
distract from the main topic of the page, and a particular page should only
carry advertisements relative to the subject of the page.

I would also suggest that you ask yourself what you really want to cover on your
site, and concentrate on those subjects.

You may like to have a look at http://www.cybec.com.au/, where I have tried to
put these principles into practice. Some of my holiday photos are shown at
http://www.corybas.com/Albums/Holidays.htm

James McNangle
  #27  
Old December 19th 06, 12:41 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Bill Again
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

Don't spend too much time redesigning, content is even more important.
Frankly I love your site and find it really useful.

Bill



"Wayne J. Cosshall" wrote in message
...
JC Dill wrote:

Rude? I didn't see anything rude. It seems that perhaps you have a
problem with your overly cluttered
page's content being called "crap" but really, to the visitor, that's
exactly what it is. It's cluttering up the page and making it very
hard for them to find any valuable content.

Frankly, I find it very ironic that your site claims to be a reference
site for "Web design" given the site's own very poor design.

jc

I think anyone who has worked as hard as I have on the site might find the
word crap rude.

Anyway, anyone here who has actually designed a web site with so much
content will know it is a tough balancing act. For example, I've been
criticized for having the usability tip message at the top of the home
page, yet I have had a good number of emails from people thanking me for
putting it there as they did not know this and it has helped them not just
with my site but many others. You can't suit everyone.

My priority with the redesign of the site (which is the current design)
was to put 'above the fold' enough indications of other content on the
site so that if people came straight into an article page, they could see
that there was much more available. Hence the article categories and types
down the left, for example, and the recent articles list on the article
pages. It has grown and evolved and, as people have pointed out, become
cluttered. I suspect that if you ran a similar site such a thing might
also happen.

It is clearly time for a redesign, and I was heading towards it before
this thread started. It has been clear for some time that the article
page, for example, needed more width for the actual content so I could use
larger pictures. I am also considering a home page design which allows me
to highlight certain 'hot' content whilst also providing easy access to
other parts of the site. Plus I've wanted to add a search page for some
time, for example. Part of this process is looking at how other similar
sites have done it and part is thinking about what is most important, etc.

Anyway, there should be a new design ready in January.

Cheers,

Wayne

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/



  #28  
Old December 19th 06, 04:52 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
JC Dill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:56:29 +1100, "Wayne J. Cosshall"
wrote:

I think anyone who has worked as hard as I have on the site might find
the word crap rude.


How hard someone has worked on something often has little relationship
to the outcome. Lots of art is crap. Lots of new homes are crap.
Lots of websites are crap. I've been in fancy-smanchy restaurants
where a chef labored to put together some pretentious dish that
doesn't work and the result is crap. And ObPhoto - many photos are
crap too.

When you put your work out there, you are going to get feedback (no
matter if you ask for it or not). If you get a lot of feedback that
says your work is not good, then that's how it is. Shooting the
messenger isn't going to magically make your work better.

jc

--

"The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
of different horses without having to own that many."
~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
  #29  
Old December 19th 06, 06:56 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Robert Brace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky


"James McNangle" wrote in message
...
"Wayne J. Cosshall" wrote:

Ok, I get your point, though i can't help thinking you really don't need
to be so rude about it.

I am considering a redesign of the site and I'll take this onboard.


Good. I assume that you hope that people will come to your web site

regularly,
but in its present form I find it quite repellent.

The biggest problems with it are that you try to carry all your baggage

with
you, all the time, and you do not appear to have made any effort to sort

it
logically.

I would suggest that the home page should carry a statement of what you

are
trying to achieve on the site, together with a small number of links to
subsidiary pages for each major topic. These again should contain a

statement
of purpose, together with links to pages covering particular aspects of

the
topic. If you must carry advertisements, these should be placed so they

do not
distract from the main topic of the page, and a particular page should

only
carry advertisements relative to the subject of the page.

I would also suggest that you ask yourself what you really want to cover

on your
site, and concentrate on those subjects.

You may like to have a look at http://www.cybec.com.au/, where I have

tried to
put these principles into practice. Some of my holiday photos are shown

at
http://www.corybas.com/Albums/Holidays.htm

James McNangle


Speaking of your overly pretentious dictates (and yes, rude) above and those
holiday photos mentioned, whoever put up the Victoria BC photos should, at
least, get the name of Butchart Gardens spelled correctly!!
I would assume you would consider correct place names part of the
non-"repellent" atmosphere you espouse.
Bob



  #30  
Old December 19th 06, 10:58 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
James McNangle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

"Robert Brace" wrote:

Speaking of your overly pretentious dictates (and yes, rude) above and those
holiday photos mentioned, whoever put up the Victoria BC photos should, at
least, get the name of Butchart Gardens spelled correctly!!


Thank you. I think they have all been corrected.

I would assume you would consider correct place names part of the
non-"repellent" atmosphere you espouse.


Desirable, yes. But these photos are intended to be enjoyed as a collection of
holiday snaps, not as a PhD thesis.


James McNangle
 




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