Dumb question processing 4x5

"Ken Hart" wrote

What if the base were tilted just a couple of degrees?

Then the drum 'walks' off the roller - at least Jobo drums and
a Unicolor base. I find I have to shim the base so the drum
stays on top - or at the least to be sure it walks so the cap
end rubs up against the base.

I use the older style 4x5 Jobo reels (? clear spiral reels
holding 6 sheets each) and do not have streaking
problems when using them on a motor base (famous last words,
I know...). Developer is usually Microdol-X and film is
usually TMax 100.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

On 10/21/2007 2:42 PM Richard Knoppow spake thus:

"darkroommike" wrote in message
...

Depends on the volume but for trials (at least) get a 8x10
paper drum, one that has dividers to separate 4x5 sheets,
load it in your changing bag (note you may need to invest
in a larger bag) and process on the tabletop in room
light. i use a Unidrum and Uniroller for roll film and
use an Omega Drum (Simmard) on the same base for the
little sheet film I do.

[snip]

I also use Unicolor and Besler print drums for sheet
film. I have found that I can get "bromide streaks" on
occasion if the drums are rotated using the Unicolor motor
base unless they are taken off several times during
development and agitated sideways. Evidently there is not
enough turbulance in the flow of the developer to move the
reaction products away from the development sites in the
long direction of the drum. I've had this problem
specifically with Rodinal. Its likely it may not happen with
other developers but its worth beign aware of.

For what it's worth, I also use the Unicolor drum with the same motor
base, and I've *never* gotten development streaks, but I've never used
Rodinal in the drum. Just D-76, Microdol-X and HC-110, all without any
problems.

Robert Chin wrote:
I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a legit question so
please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated darkroom (for now at
least). I've done many many rolls of film over the years. I throw
everyting into a changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the first time. It requires
a bit more space to handle the sheet film than rolls. Since I do not have a
dedicated darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the necessary chemicals,
leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the film holder from tank to tank in
the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?

Advice welcome from all.

Thanks.





You can use Polaroid 55 for positive and
negatives. Prints very nice, too. And you get that
decorative edge without having to use Photoshop.

There are dedicated film tanks for 4x5 and they
must work or they'd be long gone from the market.
Load the tank in the dark, keep your chemistry
ready and process as you would 35mm in tank.

Cheers

"Ken Hart" wrote in message
...

"Richard Knoppow" wrote in
message ...

snip
I also use Unicolor and Besler print drums for sheet
film. I have found that I can get "bromide streaks" on
occasion if the drums are rotated using the Unicolor
motor base unless they are taken off several times during
development and agitated sideways. Evidently there is not
enough turbulance in the flow of the developer to move
the reaction products away from the development sites in
the long direction of the drum. I've had this problem
specifically with Rodinal. Its likely it may not happen
with other developers but its worth beign aware of.
The streaks show up as lines of lighter density on
either side of dense highlights on the negative in the
direction of rotation.


What if the base were tilted just a couple of degrees? Of
course this could make the streaks slightly diagonal, but
as the developer 'runs into' the end of the tank perhaps
it would agitate it sufficiently to prevent the streaks.
I'd try it myself, but I've never experienced the problem.
Maybe because I can't seem to level the motor base! (I use
either HC-110 or C-41)
I don't think this would work. The problem seem to be
that there is not enough sideways agitation to dissipate the
developer reaction products so they are dragged back and
forth across the point where they are being produced. For
medium densities there doesn't seem to be much effect but
where one has a quite high density the effect is quite
noticable. I noticed this first on a cityscape where there
were direct reflections of a low sun in some windows. Those
windows have streak which show up on both print and
negative.
Some developer reaction products, bromide and iodide for
instance, inhibit development, some accelerate it. I am
pretty sure that the negatives I first noticed the effect on
were developed with Rodinal. The active ingredient in
Rodinal is para aminophenol, related to Metol, which is
sensitive to bromide and produces restraining reaction
products.
In normal use for developing color prints the effect is
probably not noticable because prints are developed to the
maximum density possible rather than partial development as
is the case for film. This probably masks any small
uneveness in development.
In any case agitating sideways several times during
development seems to cure the problem.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Robert Chin" wrote in message
...

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.

Not if you use a film and developer you can pre-soak or use high dilutions
with long development times.

Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?

It's a problem for people who use film/developer/temps that yield short
development times. Just don't go there.

In article , pico pico.pico.net wrote:
"Robert Chin" wrote in message
...

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.

Not if you use a film and developer you can pre-soak or use high dilutions
with long development times.

It's not really an issue with Jobo drums because the drum is _supposed to_
be already rotating, and the processor level (and the water bath properly
filled so the drum doesn't float at an angle) before you pour anything
into it.

The pre-wet once recommended by Jobo can cause serious problems with some
processes, for example C41. I have also seen it lower film speed when I
was doing film and developer tests. I wouldn't use it.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to
be abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

"pico" pico.pico.net wrote in message
...
"Robert Chin" wrote in message
...

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.

Not if you use a film and developer you can pre-soak or use high dilutions
with long development times.

Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?

It's a problem for people who use film/developer/temps that yield short
development times. Just don't go there.


Depends on the tank.
Let's assume that it takes thirty seconds to fill the tank. Let's assume you
are doing C41, where the developer time is 3:15. The tank filling time is
about 1/6 of the total developement time. That's a bad thing. Now let's
assume that a different developer/temperatuire combination time is 15:00
That thirty seconds to fill the tank is now only 1/30 of the developement
time-- not a big deal.

If you are using one of the tanks where the film stands up and the tank
requires a quart/liter or so of developer, it's going to take some time to
fill. But you can process perhaps a dozen sheets at once. Just fill the tank
in advance, load the sheets in the holder, and shove the holder into the
full tank- start timing. If you are using one of the tube/roller styles
tanks that only require a few ounces of developer (they don't need to be
full), the fill time is not an issue.

When I develope 120 rolls four at a time in C-41, fill time is an issue. I
have two tanks. I load all the rolls on the 'spindle' (long center post that
holds the reels). The tank is already filled with the proper amount of
developer. I put all the films in the tank, start the timer, close the lid,
and turn on the lights. The second tank has the bleach in it. When the timer
reaches 3:00, I turn off the lights and get ready to pull the reels out of
the developer tank and put them in the bleach tank. Essentially, this
procedure makes the 'fill time' for a large tank only a matter of seconds.

Hi All:

Thanks to everyone who replied. This was a big help. I'm going to filter
through some of the suggestions and figure out a better set up than what I
have now.

For now though I like the idea of a dilution that will allow me long
development times. I'm using the Kodak Tmax film now. Mostly the 100, but
in the future, I will be using the others.

What is a good developer/dilution (preferably using Kodak or Ilford
chemistry) that will get me longer development times, like in the range of
10+ minutes?

The other problem (sort of) is that I like to work at room temperature
because I just don't have a lot of room now. Room temperature for me is
74F.

If it's possible, some description of how it will affect grain and contrast
is much appreciated.

Thanks again!

"Robert Chin" wrote in message
...
Hi All:

Thanks to everyone who replied. This was a big help. I'm going to filter
through some of the suggestions and figure out a better set up than what I
have now.

For now though I like the idea of a dilution that will allow me long
development times. I'm using the Kodak Tmax film now. Mostly the 100,
but in the future, I will be using the others.

What is a good developer/dilution (preferably using Kodak or Ilford
chemistry) that will get me longer development times, like in the range of
10+ minutes?

The other problem (sort of) is that I like to work at room temperature
because I just don't have a lot of room now. Room temperature for me is
74F.

If it's possible, some description of how it will affect grain and
contrast is much appreciated.

With Tmax 100, I've always liked Rodinal 1:50 @ 68 degrees for 11 minutes.
Agitate continuously first 30 secs, then for 5 secs every 30 secs
thereafter. And Rodinal is still available.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_pro...t_id=&pid=4697

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_pro...t_id=&pid=4698

If ambient temperature is a concern, use a water bath of 68 degrees in which
you sit your loaded tank between agitation cycles.

"Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote in message
...

If ambient temperature is a concern, use a water bath of 68 degrees in
which you sit your loaded tank between agitation cycles.

A water bath doesn't work for me because of the lack of workspace. Plus,
I'm using those big HP plastic tanks for 4x5 film. Do you have any other
formulas that would work?

Thanks!