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short infrequent sessions and fixer waste



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 26th 12, 03:58 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Joe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste

My developing and printing sessions have become short. Very short.
But short is better than nothing, and short is all I have time for.
I'll develop a couple rolls of 120 and be done, or I'll develop a
couple batches of 4x5s and be done, or I'll print one or two negatives
and be done and use only a few sheets of paper. Then I'm often not in
the darkroom for weeks. By the time I'm back, the fix is past due,
according to the label (I think Ilford says one week after dilution).
I've been using Ilford rapid, because I'm too rushed to mix my own
like I used to. Rather than take a chance I just dump it in my holding
bottles for taking to the photo lab for silver removal, and mix new
fix.

If I test the old film fix with a snip of film and it still clears OK,
can I feel safe that no other chemical breakdowns have happened that
might adversely impact my film? Is there any way to know if the paper
fix (different dilution) is still good and safe? I just hate this
wasted capacity and wasted expense.
  #2  
Old December 26th 12, 02:49 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 450
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste

Joe wrote:
If I test the old film fix with a snip of film and it still clears OK,
can I feel safe that no other chemical breakdowns have happened that
might adversely impact my film? Is there any way to know if the paper
fix (different dilution) is still good and safe? I just hate this
wasted capacity and wasted expense.


You can do the old film test with paper fixer too. Change the time to
match the dilution, e.g. if you dilute film fixer 1:5 and paper fixer 1:10,
it should take twice as long to clear film in it.

Edwal and others used to make a fixer test solution, I don't know if anyone
still does.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379
"Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play
chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician."
(sent to me by a friend)




  #3  
Old December 26th 12, 05:39 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 450
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Edwal and others used to make a fixer test solution, I don't know if anyone
still does.


It's amazing what you can find with google. It's called Edwal Hypo-Check
and it's still sold.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379
"Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play
chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician."
(sent to me by a friend)




  #4  
Old December 26th 12, 08:46 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Joe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste

On Dec 26, 10:39*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Edwal and others used to make a fixer test solution, I don't know if anyone
still does.


It's amazing what you can find with google. It's called Edwal Hypo-Check
and it's still sold.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379
"Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play
chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician."
(sent to me by a friend)


But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever silver
reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for other reasons
that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach capacity....
  #5  
Old December 27th 12, 07:39 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 450
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste

Joe wrote:

But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever silver
reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for other reasons
that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach capacity....


It never did when I was developing film. Fixers are acid and therefore do not
mold or turn rancid. They do decompose slighlty so you find a percipitate
at the bottom of the bottle and some of it sticks.

What I used to do was keep a box of cheap coffee filters in the darkroom
and when I wanted to develop something, I put one in a funnel, stuck the
funnel in a graduated cylinder (or a bottle), shook the fixer well to dislodge
anything on the bottom and filtered it before use.

I doubt that you have to do it with paper,you could just let any sediment
stay in the bottle, but I would not do it with film because I would
(probably unjustifiably) that something would stick to the film and not
be removed in the wash.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379
"Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play
chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician."
(sent to me by a friend)




  #6  
Old January 2nd 13, 09:15 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 751
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste


"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:

But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever
silver
reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for
other reasons
that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach
capacity....


It never did when I was developing film. Fixers are acid
and therefore do not
mold or turn rancid. They do decompose slighlty so you
find a percipitate
at the bottom of the bottle and some of it sticks.

What I used to do was keep a box of cheap coffee filters
in the darkroom
and when I wanted to develop something, I put one in a
funnel, stuck the
funnel in a graduated cylinder (or a bottle), shook the
fixer well to dislodge
anything on the bottom and filtered it before use.

I doubt that you have to do it with paper,you could just
let any sediment
stay in the bottle, but I would not do it with film
because I would
(probably unjustifiably) that something would stick to the
film and not
be removed in the wash.

Geoff.

Edwal fixer checker is a solution of potassium iodide.
When there is more than a certain amount of silver complex
in the fixer it is caused to precipitate as a white cloud.
If the cloud goes back into solution in a second of two the
fixer is supposed to be OK but if its permanent the fixer
should be tossed. The problem is that the amount of
residual silver that can be in fixer that tests good is too
much.

Also, with time fixer begins to sulfurize. That is the
sodium thiosulfate begins to decompose. The acid in acid
fixer is the primary cause of this decomposition. The sodium
sulfite in the fixer help to protect the thiosulfate from
the acid but also performs other duties. Kodak gave the life
of standard fixer as about 2 months. I would not stretch it
for much more. I don't think Edwal Hypo-Check will test for
partially decomposed fixer. However, usually you can smell
it because there is usually an odor of sulfur dioxide (sharp
smell) and often hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). Also,
decomposing hypo tends to be cloudy and some times has a
white or yellowish precipitate in the container. This is
also true for "rapid" or ammonium thiosulfate fixers.
If you work rarely its a good precaution to mix the hypo
fresh each time.
The best test of a fixer is to fix out a sample of paper
or film and treat it in sodium sulfide (not sulfite) tester.
A drop or two is placed on a clear area of the film or a
white area of the print and allowed to stand a couple of
minutes, then rinse off. If the material is completely fixed
there will be no stain. The sulfide tones silver halide as
readily as metallic silver so will show up anything left by
the fixer. The formulas for fixer tester, residual silver
tester, and residual hypo tester can all be found in any
edition of the _Kodak Black-and-White Darkroom Dataguide_
This is no longer published by Kodak but I think should not
be too difficult to obtain used.


--

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL



  #7  
Old January 8th 13, 04:49 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Joe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste

Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting this ghost
town from time to time! Where did the good old days go? ;-)


On Jan 2, 2:15*am, "Richard Knoppow" wrote:
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in ...

Joe wrote:


But the Edwal, as I remember it, is testing for whatever
silver
reduction ability remains. Does not the fix go bad for
other reasons
that simply reaching it's capacity? I never even approach
capacity....


It never did when I was developing film. Fixers are acid
and therefore do not
mold or turn rancid. They do decompose slighlty so you
find a percipitate
at the bottom of the bottle and some of it sticks.


What I used to do was keep a box of cheap coffee filters
in the darkroom
and when I wanted to develop something, I put one in a
funnel, stuck the
funnel in a graduated cylinder (or a bottle), shook the
fixer well to dislodge
anything on the bottom and filtered it before use.


I doubt that you have to do it with paper,you could just
let any sediment
stay in the bottle, but I would not do it with film
because I would
(probably unjustifiably) that something would stick to the
film and not
be removed in the wash.


Geoff.


* * Edwal fixer checker is a solution of potassium iodide.
When there is more than a certain amount of silver complex
in the fixer it is caused to precipitate as a white cloud.
If the cloud goes back into solution in a second of two the
fixer is supposed to be OK but if its permanent the fixer
should be tossed. *The problem is that the amount of
residual silver that can be in fixer that tests good is too
much.

* * Also, with time fixer begins to sulfurize. That is the
sodium thiosulfate begins to decompose. *The acid in acid
fixer is the primary cause of this decomposition. The sodium
sulfite in the fixer help to protect the thiosulfate from
the acid but also performs other duties. Kodak gave the life
of standard fixer as about 2 months. I would not stretch it
for much more. *I don't think Edwal Hypo-Check will test for
partially decomposed fixer. *However, usually you can smell
it because there is usually an odor of sulfur dioxide (sharp
smell) and often hydrogen sulfide (rotten eggs). *Also,
decomposing hypo tends to be cloudy and some times has a
white or yellowish precipitate in the container. *This is
also true for "rapid" or ammonium thiosulfate fixers.
* * If you work rarely its a good precaution to mix the hypo
fresh each time.
* * The best test of a fixer is to fix out a sample of paper
or film and treat it in sodium sulfide (not sulfite) tester.
A drop or two is placed on a clear area of the film or a
white area of the print and allowed to stand a couple of
minutes, then rinse off. If the material is completely fixed
there will be no stain. *The sulfide tones silver halide as
readily as metallic silver so will show up anything left by
the fixer. *The formulas for fixer tester, residual silver
tester, and residual hypo tester can all be found in any
edition of the _Kodak Black-and-White Darkroom Dataguide_
This is no longer published by Kodak but I think should not
be too difficult to obtain used.

--

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL


  #8  
Old January 11th 13, 08:27 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 751
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste


"Joe" wrote in message
...
Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting this
ghost
town from time to time! Where did the good old days go? ;-)

Down the drain to the recycler. I still check this and
the large-format group. Digital has killed off most of the
photo groups and the ISP's are trying to kill off Usenet. I
find the web-based groups too scattered.
A not quite ghost (yet)...


--

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL



  #9  
Old January 11th 13, 02:56 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Joe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste

On Jan 11, 1:27*am, "Richard Knoppow" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

...
Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting this
ghost
town from time to time! Where did the good old days go? ;-)

* * Down the drain to the recycler. *I still check this and
the large-format group. Digital has killed off most of the
photo groups and the ISP's are trying to kill off Usenet. *I
find the web-based groups too scattered.
* * A not quite ghost (yet)...

--

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL



I was wondering why you don't visit the web groups. I prefer the old
plain text format myself because I'm on dialup, but there are ways to
narrow the focus on some web forums. At the Large Format Photography
Forum (which uses V Bulletin) you can create a search that only
includes new posts from the subforums you select, and you can get
similar results through a different approach at APUG. I find them hard
to keep up with just due to sheer volume. I probably need to narrow my
searches down to even fewer sub-fora.
  #10  
Old January 11th 13, 05:02 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 751
Default short infrequent sessions and fixer waste


"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Jan 11, 1:27 am, "Richard Knoppow"
wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

...
Thanks Richard, good to see that you are still haunting
this
ghost
town from time to time! Where did the good old days go?
;-)

Down the drain to the recycler. I still check this and
the large-format group. Digital has killed off most of the
photo groups and the ISP's are trying to kill off Usenet.
I
find the web-based groups too scattered.
A not quite ghost (yet)...

--

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL



I was wondering why you don't visit the web groups. I prefer
the old
plain text format myself because I'm on dialup, but there
are ways to
narrow the focus on some web forums. At the Large Format
Photography
Forum (which uses V Bulletin) you can create a search that
only
includes new posts from the subforums you select, and you
can get
similar results through a different approach at APUG. I find
them hard
to keep up with just due to sheer volume. I probably need to
narrow my
searches down to even fewer sub-fora.

I may try the web forums again. I am also on a
dial-up, high speed just was not available for a long time
and I got used to it. I also don't have cable TV and don't
want it and many high speed services come bundled.
I still like film and chemical photography. I have a
cheap digital camera which I used mostly for note taking
when working on old electronic equipment. I suppose there
are some old friends on APUG, etc and I am registered there
(I think).


--

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL




 




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