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DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter not used with mirror up



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 28th 18, 12:44 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter notused with mirror up

On 1/27/2018 6:28 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 10:57:29 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
says...

With the E-M1 II in high res mode (80 MP) it's not sufficient to disable
the mechanical shutter (i.e. use the electronic shutter). You need a
wireless shutter release and you also have to disable the autofocus,
because the AF motor movements in the lens generate vibrations.

And don't forget the concrete foundations.


Doesn't have to be concrete. Can by anything, also sand or mud, as long
as it doesn't move.


" ... as long as it doesn't move" That's why I always use concrete.


I've seen idiots set up a tripod on boats.

--
PeterN
  #12  
Old January 28th 18, 12:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter not used with mirror up

In article , PeterN
wrote:


I've seen idiots set up a tripod on boats.


that's not as stupid as it might seem.
  #13  
Old January 28th 18, 01:07 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter not used with mirror up

On Jan 27, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 1/27/2018 6:28 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 10:57:29 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In , Eric Stevens
says...

With the E-M1 II in high res mode (80 MP) it's not sufficient to disable
the mechanical shutter (i.e. use the electronic shutter). You need a
wireless shutter release and you also have to disable the autofocus,
because the AF motor movements in the lens generate vibrations.

And don't forget the concrete foundations.

Doesn't have to be concrete. Can by anything, also sand or mud, as long
as it doesn't move.


" ... as long as it doesn't move" That's why I always use concrete.


I've seen idiots set up a tripod on boats.


That is one way to capture wave motion. ;-)

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #14  
Old January 28th 18, 06:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
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Posts: 2,591
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter not used with mirror up

In article , PeterN says...

On 1/27/2018 6:28 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 10:57:29 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
says...

With the E-M1 II in high res mode (80 MP) it's not sufficient to disable
the mechanical shutter (i.e. use the electronic shutter). You need a
wireless shutter release and you also have to disable the autofocus,
because the AF motor movements in the lens generate vibrations.

And don't forget the concrete foundations.

Doesn't have to be concrete. Can by anything, also sand or mud, as long
as it doesn't move.


" ... as long as it doesn't move" That's why I always use concrete.


I've seen idiots set up a tripod on boats.


It eliminates some motion (camera shake due to shaking hands).
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #15  
Old January 28th 18, 10:43 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,591
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter not used with mirror up

In article ,
RichA says...

On Sunday, 28 January 2018 00:41:23 UTC-5, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , PeterN says...

On 1/27/2018 6:28 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 10:57:29 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
says...

With the E-M1 II in high res mode (80 MP) it's not sufficient to disable
the mechanical shutter (i.e. use the electronic shutter). You need a
wireless shutter release and you also have to disable the autofocus,
because the AF motor movements in the lens generate vibrations.

And don't forget the concrete foundations.

Doesn't have to be concrete. Can by anything, also sand or mud, as long
as it doesn't move.

" ... as long as it doesn't move" That's why I always use concrete.


I've seen idiots set up a tripod on boats.


It eliminates some motion (camera shake due to shaking hands).
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site


High frequency shake. Does nothing for low-frequency ocean motion, vibration from engines, etc.


Actually the vibration from the engines is high frequency shake. The
body movement is more of a low frequency thing.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #16  
Old January 28th 18, 11:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter not used with mirror up

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 17:01:33 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

On Friday, 26 January 2018 23:45:35 UTC-5, Savageduck wrote:
On Jan 26, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:48:15 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On Jan 26, 2018, Alfred Molon wrote
(in . com):

In iganews.com,
Savageduck says...

The solution is simple; Go mirrorless!

With the E-M1 II in high res mode (80 MP) it's not sufficient to disable
the mechanical shutter (i.e. use the electronic shutter). You need a
wireless shutter release and you also have to disable the autofocus,
because the AF motor movements in the lens generate vibrations.

Still no problem:

No flappy mirror - check!

Electronic shutter - check!

Wireless shutter release - check!

Manual focus with peak focusing - check!

As long as that pesky flapping mirror is not an issue the problem is solved.
Unless of course you have chosen to stick with a DSLR.

Still no problem with my D750.

Select Mup (mirror up) - select.


Live View in action.

No electronic shutter. See note below.


Noted.

Wireless shutter release - check


Good.

Focus peaking (of a kind) - check.
See https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57292217


Close, but not quite as effective, and useful as true focus peaking. However,
for the type of shot that all of this procedure is intended for you would be
using Live View, and it should be good enough.

Heavy! Vibrate it if you can - check.


Always possible.
Note, this discussion brought on us by Rich, and the geeky article he
discovered, is going to be a minimal issue for those photographers with the
appropriate knowledge, and skills regardless of the camera type in use. The
results of any minimal vibration is going to need some serious pixel-peeking
to detect.

Note: I'm not keen on electronic shutters. They can lead to image
distortion with action shots and they are reputed to shorten the life
of the sensor.


Electronic shutters have their place, and provide an option over a mechanical
shutter. However, as you have noted, when it comes to action shots where the
shutter speed has been pushed, rolling shutter effect comes into play with
all the unwanted distortion that brings. Though there are times those effects
can be amusing. For the type of shot where the camera is tripod mounted, the
subject is static, and vibration is to be minimized, the electronic shutter
can be appreciated.



Without an electronic shutter, there is no way to rid a camera of all vibration.
Modern Photography once bolted cameras to a concrete wall to try to eliminate it. At some point, long before an electronic shutter camera experiences it, a camera with mechanical shutter will blur the image. The only variable left with an electronic shutter shot is human hands holding a camera. Also, even on a tripod, any strong wind will induce some vibration which would impact any camera.


It also depends on the viewing angle of the lens and the number of
pixels in the image.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #17  
Old January 28th 18, 11:54 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter not used with mirror up

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 18:44:32 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 6:28 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 10:57:29 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
says...

With the E-M1 II in high res mode (80 MP) it's not sufficient to disable
the mechanical shutter (i.e. use the electronic shutter). You need a
wireless shutter release and you also have to disable the autofocus,
because the AF motor movements in the lens generate vibrations.

And don't forget the concrete foundations.

Doesn't have to be concrete. Can by anything, also sand or mud, as long
as it doesn't move.


" ... as long as it doesn't move" That's why I always use concrete.


I've seen idiots set up a tripod on boats.


There is alway something like this ...
http://www.tylermount.com/minigyro-vs-gyrobot.html
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #18  
Old January 29th 18, 04:00 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default DSLR resolution suffers by about 20% when electronic shutter notused with mirror up

On 1/28/2018 5:54 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 18:44:32 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 6:28 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 10:57:29 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
says...

With the E-M1 II in high res mode (80 MP) it's not sufficient to disable
the mechanical shutter (i.e. use the electronic shutter). You need a
wireless shutter release and you also have to disable the autofocus,
because the AF motor movements in the lens generate vibrations.

And don't forget the concrete foundations.

Doesn't have to be concrete. Can by anything, also sand or mud, as long
as it doesn't move.

" ... as long as it doesn't move" That's why I always use concrete.


I've seen idiots set up a tripod on boats.


There is alway something like this ...
http://www.tylermount.com/minigyro-vs-gyrobot.html


I am very familiar with gyros. i was talking about tripods, which will
only transmit the boat motion to your camera, unless you have a gyro
built into the tripod.
IMHO the Kenyon works quite well, and can be hand held.
https://www.ken-lab.com/

--
PeterN
 




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