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#21
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel appliances. She says magnets don't stick. Then it's not stainless steel. Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much nickel is in it, I gather. No, how much chromium. Low chromium makes it magnetic. Yes, you're right there is type of stainless called "Austenitic" that, in the right conditions, is non magnetic. Slap it with a hammer (or other tooling) and it becomes quite attracted to magnets, however. The vast majority of stainless steels are nonmagnetic ("300 series" such as 304 or 316) as opposed to magnetic ones ("400 series". By nonmagnetic I mean nonFERROmagnetic ... they are all strongly paramagnetic. Doug McDonald |
#22
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:59:47 -0500, Alan Browne, who is determined
to show that he knows all of the answers, wrote: Then it's not stainless steel. Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much nickel is in it, I gather. Yes, you're right there is type of stainless called "Austenitic" that, in the right conditions, is non magnetic. Slap it with a hammer (or other tooling) and it becomes quite attracted to magnets, however. I've an old KitchenAid pot that's been knocked around and banged up for years. "Stainless Steel" is stamped on the bottom and there's no noticeable attraction by strong magnets. Did you just google "Stainless Steel" and discover the word "Austenitic"? In general, the higher the proportion of chromium, the stronger the corrosion resistance of the steel. In addition to chromium, other metals are added to give the steel particular properties such as strength and malleability. Specifically nickel is used to strengthen the oxide layer. As for whether they are magnetic, the answer is that it depends. There are several families of stainless steels with different physical properties. A basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is magnetic. These are formed from the addition of chromium and can be hardened through the addition of carbon (making them 'martensitic') and are often used in cutlery. However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic. So the answer is yes, the magnetic properties of stainless steel are very dependent on the elements added into the alloy, and specifically the addition of nickel can change the structure from magnetic to non-magnetic. http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae546.cfm If you have non-magnetic stainless steel and you "Slap it with a hammer", does that knock the nickel out of the steel, leaving a powdery residue? Is this the famous "plugged nickel" that is used to measure your theories' values? How hard does a pot have to be slapped to change the steel's structure and make it non-magnetic? Can it be done easily in a kitchen or is a machine shop's equipment sufficient? Reheating the pot to a very high temperature will return it to its non-magnetic state. Isn't the internet great? |
#23
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:24:15 -0600, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH
wrote in : We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel appliances. She says magnets don't stick. Then it's not stainless steel. Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much nickel is in it, I gather. No, how much chromium. Low chromium makes it magnetic. No, nickel. See http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae546.cfm Question Is stainless steel magnetic? Does it depend on the amount of chromium, or nickel alloy? Asked by: James McGuigan Answer Stainless steels are a very broad group of metals. The name was adopted as a generic term for steel alloys with a minimum of 10.5% chromium. The chromium gives the steel its 'stainless' properties - essentially corrosion resistance. On the surface of the metal, a very thin chromium-rich oxide layer is formed which is inert - i.e. it prevents the steel from rusting. The advantage of stainless steels over plated steels is that, if scratched or damaged, the steel will 'self-repair' as a new oxide layer is formed. In plated steels, scratches in the plate will often lead to corrosion of the steel underneath. In general, the higher the proportion of chromium, the stronger the corrosion resistance of the steel. In addition to chromium, other metals are added to give the steel particular properties such as strength and malleability. Specifically nickel is used to strengthen the oxide layer. As for whether they are magnetic, the answer is that it depends. There are several families of stainless steels with different physical properties. A basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is magnetic. These are formed from the addition of chromium and can be hardened through the addition of carbon (making them 'martensitic') and are often used in cutlery. However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. IT IS THE NICKEL WHICH MODIFIES THE PHYSICAL STRUCTURE OF THE STEEL AND MAKES IT NON-MAGNETIC. [emphasis added] So the answer is yes, the magnetic properties of stainless steel are very dependent on the elements added into the alloy, and specifically the addition of nickel can change the structure from magnetic to non-magnetic. The following company website has a useful high-level definition of the broad stainless steel categories. http://www.parkrow.org/stainless_steel.htm Answered by: Jules Seeley, M.S., Physics graduate; Strategy Consultant, London. -- Best regards, John Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others |
#24
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:24:15 -0600, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY
REACH wrote: Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much nickel is in it, I gather. No, how much chromium. Low chromium makes it magnetic. No, back atcha! Unlike humans, steel that's got the hots is non-magnetic. Nickel makes the non-magnetic state stable at low temperatures. This is shown in the quote below. If chromium also has this property, it's probably less effective than nickel. The same web page notes that to increase the corrosion resistance of steel, chromium is added. At room temperature Mild Steel is magnetic - the atoms are arranged to form a structure that is predominantly ferrite. Ferrite is magnetic. Once steel is heated to above 730°C the atoms will tend to rearrange into a phase called Austenite. Austenite is non-magnetic. So very hot steel is not magnetic….who cares! An interesting fact is that some alloy additions will encourage Austenite to be stable at room temperature, the result being a steel which is non-magnetic at room temperature. One such alloy is Nickel. The 300 series of stainless steels contain sufficient Nickel to render them non-magnetic. As 316/L & 304/L are the most common stainless steel grades used, they are the grades that most people are familiar with. All of the stainless steels from the 300 series are non-magnetic. This has resulted in the misconception that all stainless steels are non-magnetic. But the fact remains that stainless steels from the other series such as 200, 400, PH, duplex etc have higher percentages of ferrite and are therefore magnetic. Some of these “magnetic” stainless steels have superior strength and corrosion resistance than those of the 300 series. http://www.supremesteel.co.nz/articl...l_magnetic.php |
#25
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:12:14 -0500, ASAAR wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:24:15 -0600, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH wrote: Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much nickel is in it, I gather. No, how much chromium. Low chromium makes it magnetic. No, back atcha! Unlike humans, steel that's got the hots is non-magnetic. Nickel makes the non-magnetic state stable at low temperatures. This is shown in the quote below. If chromium also has this property, it's probably less effective than nickel. The same web page notes that to increase the corrosion resistance of steel, chromium is added. Gosh! With all this metallurgical discussion in a photography group you'd think the P&S guy would jump in to chastise us "resident-trolls" for our off-topic posts. |
#26
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
John A. wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:12:14 -0500, ASAAR wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:24:15 -0600, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH wrote: Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much nickel is in it, I gather. No, how much chromium. Low chromium makes it magnetic. No, back atcha! Unlike humans, steel that's got the hots is non-magnetic. Nickel makes the non-magnetic state stable at low temperatures. This is shown in the quote below. If chromium also has this property, it's probably less effective than nickel. The same web page notes that to increase the corrosion resistance of steel, chromium is added. Gosh! With all this metallurgical discussion in a photography group you'd think the P&S guy would jump in to chastise us "resident-trolls" for our off-topic posts. At least RichA doesn't have an excuse for an anti-plastic rant. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. |
#27
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
John A. wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:40:47 -0700, "Bob Hatch" wrote: "John Navas" wrote in message On 21 Dec 2008 17:42:56 GMT, Allodoxaphobia wrote in : On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:49:19 -0700, Bob Hatch wrote: "Neil Jones" wrote in I am looking for Digital Photo Frames (5x7) that can be put on the refrigerator in the kitchen. The ony ones that I found were too small or integrated into the refrigerator. Could you please let me know if anyone is aware of this type of frames? Buy the frame you want, then go to Wal-Mart or any crafts store and buy a roll of adhesive backed magnetic tape. Apply the tape to the back of the frame, and put it on the fridge door. Checking first to see the your refrigerator is not made from aluminum or plastic.... Elsewise: Plan B. Velcro. I use commercial grade Velcro to hang pictures, up to 16x20 with small frame, on the walls of my motor home. Some have been there for 50,000 miles over all kinds of roads. I use the magnetic tape to attach carpet to the outside steps of the motor home. I do add hot glue to the tape, but I leave the carpets on the steps when driving. I've never lost one. They wear out in about 2 years, and I remove the magnetic tape and put them on the back of new carpet. Either would work, but the magnetic tape will be easy to take down and clean the fridge door, it the door is a metal that will hold the magnet. If you're worried about the adhesive giving way, just tack the magnet down with hot glue or a bit of gorilla glue. We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel appliances. She says magnets don't stick. If a magnet doesn't stick to it, then it is NOT really stainless steel. More likely brushed aluminum. |
#28
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigerators??
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#29
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:51:04 -0600, Ron Hunter wrote:
We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel appliances. She says magnets don't stick. If a magnet doesn't stick to it, then it is NOT really stainless steel. More likely brushed aluminum. This might be one of the areas where your wife could teach you a thing or two. Or not. There are many types of stainless steel cookware, and many of them don't work on induction ranges. |
#30
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Digital Photo Frames for refrigirators??
Ron Hunter wrote:
John A. wrote: We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel appliances. She says magnets don't stick. If a magnet doesn't stick to it, then it is NOT really stainless steel. More likely brushed aluminum. .... will somebody... -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. |
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