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#111
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
"Neil Harrington" wrote in message ... "tony cooper" wrote in message ... On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 13:14:07 +0100, Chris H wrote: I do understand but having seem FOX news and many others the same pictures with slightly different words can portray a very different scene. I recall during the floods in New Orleans there was a comment that there were gangs of black criminals looting and white vigilantes trying to keep the peace and get supplies for people. I don't believe this either. The meaning of the word "vigilantes" would be understood by any professional journalist, and not used to describe "keeping the peace". A description using "vigilantes" would be as negative as a description using "looters". Not necessarily. "Vigilantes" implies a group of citizens that "take the law into their own hands," to use the common phrase. Sometimes that is the necessary and proper thing to do. Do you know where and when the term got started? In the mid-19th century, San Francisco, then a relatively small town, was much troubled by crime and violence. Honest men and women were attacked and robbed, businesses were too, streets and homes were unsafe, and the local judges and peace officers were worse than useless -- basically the local law was in cahoots with the criminals. Eventually the local citizens got fed up with this and formed what they called a "vigilance committee." (This of course is where "vigilante" comes from.) One day the committee rounded up a number of the most notorious crooks, including some of the local "law" I believe, gave them a speedy trial and hanged them. The effect on San Francisco was salutory. Criminals and corrupt law officers alike fled the city post haste, and it became (for a while) a peaceful, law-abiding and orderly town. As I recollect, the citizens of San Francisco had to do that twice, and on one occasion federal troops were called in to protect the corrupt local law, with mixed results. These very interesting and even instructive events are extensively covered in the book "The Barbary Coast," by Herbert Asbury, published in 1933 -- about five years after his better known book, "Gangs of New York." The latter of course was what the silly movie of that title with Leonardo DiCaprio was supposedly based on -- though to even suggest that there's any similarity between the book and the movie should be made a criminal offense. Both books are an excellent read and may still be available -- I have facsimile reprints of both, haven't read them for many years but must do so again soon. In other words gang warfare but the very subtle differences in the words portrayed one group as criminals and the other as upholding the law The word "vigilantes" does not mean upholding the law. Vigilantes operate outside of the law and contrary to the law. Any use of "vigilante" has negative meaning and negative connotation. It has that meaning and connotation for you, because of the way it is generally used and because you presumably don't know how the term originated.. But when there is no law organization doing the job the law is supposed to do, and peaceful, honest citizens are being attacked, robbed and worse -- as obviously was the case in New Orleans -- then the vigilante in one form or another becomes necessary. What else can people do to protect themselves? Remember that in New Orleans during Katrina, many of the police fled the city (two of them stole a police cruiser and were arrested in Texas) and the mayor fled also. Whatever police remained seem to have been absolutely useless. Long before Katrina, the New Orleans Police Department was well known for its corruption...... |
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:03:32 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote: "tony cooper" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:11:41 -0700, "Bill Graham" wrote: I am only wrong in your eyes, Tony. I find that you will seek out some minor discrepancy in what I say, and seize on it to make your point....Savageduck does this frequently too. I do think in generalities, rather than specifics, The devil is in the details. Although, claiming that US unemployment is at 20% or thinking that "vigilante" is an antonym for "looter" is hardly a petty detail. You and Bill Graham share a propensity for bungling the specifics. I never said either one of those things....The unemployment is currently at 9.8% nationally, although here in Oregon it is closer to 12% A vigilante is an unlicensed policeman. I erred, Bill, and I apologize. So much of Chris's comments were in the post that I thought I was replying to Chris. You did not say those things. Your bungles have been in other areas. More of your bungles are in today's posts. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
"tony cooper" wrote in message ... On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:03:32 -0700, "Bill Graham" wrote: "tony cooper" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:11:41 -0700, "Bill Graham" wrote: I am only wrong in your eyes, Tony. I find that you will seek out some minor discrepancy in what I say, and seize on it to make your point....Savageduck does this frequently too. I do think in generalities, rather than specifics, The devil is in the details. Although, claiming that US unemployment is at 20% or thinking that "vigilante" is an antonym for "looter" is hardly a petty detail. You and Bill Graham share a propensity for bungling the specifics. I never said either one of those things....The unemployment is currently at 9.8% nationally, although here in Oregon it is closer to 12% A vigilante is an unlicensed policeman. I erred, Bill, and I apologize. So much of Chris's comments were in the post that I thought I was replying to Chris. You did not say those things. Your bungles have been in other areas. More of your bungles are in today's posts. Look. there are many ways to insult me. But confusing me with Chris is unpardonable.....:^) |
#114
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
In message , Neil
Harrington writes "Chris H" wrote in message ... In message , Bill Graham writes "Neil Harrington" wrote in message news:eOudnT2s ... "Chris H" wrote in message news:Un0zfYCDz1xKFAb ... In message , Neil Harrington writes "DRS" wrote in message news:UNidnVWBibNWclnXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@westne t.com.au... "Chris H" wrote in message In message , DRS It is also why the US has now followed the UK's lead (and greater experience) in saying any solution must now involve discussions with the Taliban. An "organisation" that has run the US military into the ground for the last 7 years, as it did the Russians. And at least two earlier British efforts. But "discussions" with the Taliban seem a naive and foolish idea, something like having a discussion about future relationships with a rattlesnake. Worked before all over the world. Including with the US supported PIAR When you're dealing with a group that believes cutting off people's hands, feet, arms or legs are reasonable forms of corrective punishment for paying insufficient attention to their view of proper Muslim rectitude, what common ground is there for discussion? The USA executes people too.... believes in torture and has no problem wit killing civilians. Exactly. These people have carried religion to its most ridiculous extreme. And of course the Christian right in the US don't? They believe that their god wants them to kill off every last person on earth, just to get rid of all the non-Muslims. Why he can't do this all by himself doesn't seem to occur to their miniscule minds. But in any case, its them or us, and the sooner we realize this, the better off we will be. The religious right in the US is no different to the religious fanatics anywhere else. Where in the U.S. do you see religious fanatics cutting people's hands and feet off for not properly following religious law? I don't... they do shoot doctors though.... Where in the U.S. do you see religious fanatics gang-raping a girl to punish her family for some alleged breach of religious or tribal rules? Many major cites or is gang rape by gangs (or tribes) no known in the US? -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |
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