Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

On 2011-01-29 19:28:27 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:

On 1/29/2011 5:51 PM Savageduck spake thus:

On 2011-01-29 17:01:13 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:

On 1/29/2011 12:49 PM Savageduck spake thus:

On 2011-01-29 11:09:09 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:

On 1/29/2011 6:41 AM Bowser spake thus:

On 1/29/2011 3:10 AM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/28/2011 10:56 PM Rich spake thus:

On Jan 28, 4:39 pm, Savageduck wrote:

French photo-journalist Lucas Mebrouk Dolega 32, dies after
being hit in the head by a police fired tear gas grenade in
Tunis while covering the disturbances in Tunis for Paris Match.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...-lucas-mebrouk...

Maybe like hockey players did, one day they'll finally start
wearing protective helmets during riots in violent, Third World
ratholes? Even a bike helmet would have saved the guy.

I'm sure Tunisians would love to hear their country referred to
that way ... but of course, who cares about them? Their lives
aren't worth as much as ours are.

That's true. But what's the exchange rate?

Pretty easily calculated, using news stories in the MSM and their
relative ranking (i.e., page placement in the newspaper, etc.).

I figure it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50:1 to 100:1.

As of 09:45AM, 1/29/2011, 1.41 Tunisian Dinar = $1US = €0.74
(...er, there's an Ap for that)

So your wide range guesstimate was not too close.

So what does the currency exchange rate have to do with it? I think you
may have missed my point here, which is the "value" of human life.

For me still 1:1.

Again, you miss my point.

For me it's 1:1 too. But that's not the conclusion any Martian would
come to if they were to come down to Earth and observe the relative
worth placed on American lives and non-American lives in the US.
Evidence? Just watch the news or read a newspaper ...

That was never your question, implied or otherwise. Why the phuzzynuts,
would I care what a Martian would conclude?
Mr. average Martian would just jam one of his fingers in your token
North American ear, then jam that same finger in the ear of your token
Tunisian, and say, "Hey! That feels the same to me. Therefore these two
life forms, located in different places on this strange planet are
identical. Both should do just fine for that recipe in Mom's cook book."



--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2011.01.29 17:27 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-01-29 13:33:05 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 2011.01.29 13:00 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-01-29 08:56:48 -0800, Alfred Molon
said:

There was an Iraq war video on wikileaks showing a US helicopter
machine-gunning an AP photographer in Bahgdad. Apparently the guy on
the
helicopter mistook the camera of the photographer as an RPG device.

Not nearly as bad as US Air Force F4 fighters strafing two US Coast

The Iraq footage is much worse than that event. Non combatants were
killed. It was one of the most disgusting displays of callousness I've
ever seen.

Worse is subjective. Callousness is your opinion. In combat the normal
reaction is to neutralize a perceived threat, and sometimes that action
has to be taken in a split second. It is not a movie, or TV, or a place
for Monday morning quarterbacks.

Have you seen the video of the Iraq event?

...and Page was a non-combatant photographer.

So were the people deliberately murdered by the US helo crew.


--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 20:18:56 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2011-01-29 19:28:27 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:

On 1/29/2011 5:51 PM Savageduck spake thus:

On 2011-01-29 17:01:13 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:

On 1/29/2011 12:49 PM Savageduck spake thus:

On 2011-01-29 11:09:09 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:

On 1/29/2011 6:41 AM Bowser spake thus:

On 1/29/2011 3:10 AM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/28/2011 10:56 PM Rich spake thus:

On Jan 28, 4:39 pm, Savageduck wrote:

French photo-journalist Lucas Mebrouk Dolega 32, dies after
being hit in the head by a police fired tear gas grenade in
Tunis while covering the disturbances in Tunis for Paris Match.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...-lucas-mebrouk...

Maybe like hockey players did, one day they'll finally start
wearing protective helmets during riots in violent, Third World
ratholes? Even a bike helmet would have saved the guy.

I'm sure Tunisians would love to hear their country referred to
that way ... but of course, who cares about them? Their lives
aren't worth as much as ours are.

That's true. But what's the exchange rate?

Pretty easily calculated, using news stories in the MSM and their
relative ranking (i.e., page placement in the newspaper, etc.).

I figure it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50:1 to 100:1.

As of 09:45AM, 1/29/2011, 1.41 Tunisian Dinar = $1US = €0.74
(...er, there's an Ap for that)

So your wide range guesstimate was not too close.

So what does the currency exchange rate have to do with it? I think you
may have missed my point here, which is the "value" of human life.

For me still 1:1.

Again, you miss my point.

For me it's 1:1 too. But that's not the conclusion any Martian would
come to if they were to come down to Earth and observe the relative
worth placed on American lives and non-American lives in the US.
Evidence? Just watch the news or read a newspaper ...

That was never your question, implied or otherwise. Why the phuzzynuts,
would I care what a Martian would conclude?
Mr. average Martian would just jam one of his fingers in your token
North American ear, then jam that same finger in the ear of your token
Tunisian, and say, "Hey! That feels the same to me. Therefore these two
life forms, located in different places on this strange planet are
identical. Both should do just fine for that recipe in Mom's cook book."

David is correct in one sense, but he's not very good at critical
thinking.

A 20 year-old unemployed motorcyclist was killed this weekend in a
road accident. The local television station devoted a segment to the
story and the local newspaper gave it two column-inches.

Dozens of Iraqis died this weekend from various acts of violence.
They were not named in the newspaper here and the local television
stations made only a general reference to violence in Iraq.

Would David's Martian conclude that one Orlando resident has more
worth than a few dozen Iraqis, or would the Martian understand that
newspapers and television news programs give space and time to what is
of local interest?

When a soldier from Orlando is killed in action in one of the Mideast
conflict areas, that individual's death - and the family he/she leaves
behind - is given somewhat extensive coverage in the Orlando media
outlets. The dozens of deaths in the same time period of residents of
that area rates coverage only if they all go at once or in some noted
incident.

Is this valuing an American higher than an Afghani or an Iraqi? Or is
it just the media doing what is supposed to do in reporting to the
public that the media serves?


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 1/29/2011 8:01 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/29/2011 12:49 PM Savageduck spake thus:

On 2011-01-29 11:09:09 -0800, David Nebenzahl
said:

On 1/29/2011 6:41 AM Bowser spake thus:

On 1/29/2011 3:10 AM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/28/2011 10:56 PM Rich spake thus:

On Jan 28, 4:39 pm, Savageduck
wrote:

French photo-journalist Lucas Mebrouk Dolega 32, dies after
being hit in the head by a police fired tear gas grenade in
Tunis while covering the disturbances in Tunis for Paris Match.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...-lucas-mebrouk...


Maybe like hockey players did, one day they'll finally start
wearing protective helmets during riots in violent, Third World
ratholes? Even a bike helmet would have saved the guy.

I'm sure Tunisians would love to hear their country referred to
that way ... but of course, who cares about them? Their lives
aren't worth as much as ours are.

That's true. But what's the exchange rate?

Pretty easily calculated, using news stories in the MSM and their
relative ranking (i.e., page placement in the newspaper, etc.).

I figure it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50:1 to 100:1.

As of 09:45AM, 1/29/2011, 1.41 Tunisian Dinar = $1US = €0.74
(...er, there's an Ap for that)

So your wide range guesstimate was not too close.

So what does the currency exchange rate have to do with it? I think you
may have missed my point here, which is the "value" of human life.



True. Just a little macabre humor thrown in here.

On 2011-01-30 06:22:31 -0800, tony cooper said:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 20:18:56 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:
On 2011-01-29 19:28:27 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:
On 1/29/2011 5:51 PM Savageduck spake thus:
On 2011-01-29 17:01:13 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:
On 1/29/2011 12:49 PM Savageduck spake thus:
On 2011-01-29 11:09:09 -0800, David Nebenzahl said:
On 1/29/2011 6:41 AM Bowser spake thus:
On 1/29/2011 3:10 AM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/28/2011 10:56 PM Rich spake thus:
On Jan 28, 4:39 pm, Savageduck wrote:
French photo-journalist Lucas Mebrouk Dolega 32, dies after
being hit in the head by a police fired tear gas grenade in
Tunis while covering the disturbances in Tunis for Paris Match.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...-lucas-mebrouk...

Maybe like hockey players did, one day they'll finally start
wearing protective helmets during riots in violent, Third World
ratholes? Even a bike helmet would have saved the guy.

I'm sure Tunisians would love to hear their country referred to
that way ... but of course, who cares about them? Their lives
aren't worth as much as ours are.

That's true. But what's the exchange rate?

Pretty easily calculated, using news stories in the MSM and their
relative ranking (i.e., page placement in the newspaper, etc.).

I figure it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50:1 to 100:1.

As of 09:45AM, 1/29/2011, 1.41 Tunisian Dinar = $1US = €0.74
(...er, there's an Ap for that)

So your wide range guesstimate was not too close.

So what does the currency exchange rate have to do with it? I think you
may have missed my point here, which is the "value" of human life.

For me still 1:1.

Again, you miss my point.

For me it's 1:1 too. But that's not the conclusion any Martian would
come to if they were to come down to Earth and observe the relative
worth placed on American lives and non-American lives in the US.
Evidence? Just watch the news or read a newspaper ...

That was never your question, implied or otherwise. Why the phuzzynuts,
would I care what a Martian would conclude?
Mr. average Martian would just jam one of his fingers in your token
North American ear, then jam that same finger in the ear of your token
Tunisian, and say, "Hey! That feels the same to me. Therefore these two
life forms, located in different places on this strange planet are
identical. Both should do just fine for that recipe in Mom's cook book."

David is correct in one sense, but he's not very good at critical
thinking.

A 20 year-old unemployed motorcyclist was killed this weekend in a
road accident. The local television station devoted a segment to the
story and the local newspaper gave it two column-inches.

Dozens of Iraqis died this weekend from various acts of violence.
They were not named in the newspaper here and the local television
stations made only a general reference to violence in Iraq.

Would David's Martian conclude that one Orlando resident has more
worth than a few dozen Iraqis, or would the Martian understand that
newspapers and television news programs give space and time to what is
of local interest?

When a soldier from Orlando is killed in action in one of the Mideast
conflict areas, that individual's death - and the family he/she leaves
behind - is given somewhat extensive coverage in the Orlando media
outlets. The dozens of deaths in the same time period of residents of
that area rates coverage only if they all go at once or in some noted
incident.

Is this valuing an American higher than an Afghani or an Iraqi? Or is
it just the media doing what is supposed to do in reporting to the
public that the media serves?



Yes.

I would hope his Martian would have more sense than to use opinionated
and biased media to make a scientific, biological determination.
As far as social determination is concerned, he would simply ask in
some totally indecipherable language, or communication technique, "Take
me to your leader."

....and then we would kill him.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2011-01-30 05:37:46 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 2011.01.29 17:27 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-01-29 13:33:05 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

On 2011.01.29 13:00 , Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-01-29 08:56:48 -0800, Alfred Molon
said:

There was an Iraq war video on wikileaks showing a US helicopter
machine-gunning an AP photographer in Bahgdad. Apparently the guy on
the
helicopter mistook the camera of the photographer as an RPG device.

Not nearly as bad as US Air Force F4 fighters strafing two US Coast

The Iraq footage is much worse than that event. Non combatants were
killed. It was one of the most disgusting displays of callousness I've
ever seen.

Worse is subjective. Callousness is your opinion. In combat the normal
reaction is to neutralize a perceived threat, and sometimes that action
has to be taken in a split second. It is not a movie, or TV, or a place
for Monday morning quarterbacks.

Have you seen the video of the Iraq event?

Yes.
A major goof on the part of those gunship pilots, and there is little
to excuse the action. However. There is a big difference between what
those of us living in areas which are not combat zones perceive after
the fact, and what was apparent to those working under rules of
engagement. While it was not clear in the footage that what was carried
by the photographers were not weapons, there were others clearly
carrying AK47's making them viable targets under the rules of
engagement. The mistake was not recognizing cameras, but even if they
had it does not mean the attack would not have taken place.
In the Iraqi conflict it has not been unknown for engagements (street
fights, suicide bombings, IED detonations, etc.) to be recorded with
cameras by insurgents.


...and Page was a non-combatant photographer.

So were the people deliberately murdered by the US helo crew.

Difficult question to answer. No, and then yes.
They were looking for any excuse to pull the trigger. However they were
working in a hostile environment which encouraged such action. The
rules of engagement permitted them to fire once the first AK47 was
seen, and that was clearly visible. There was no clear ID of the group
as press. The follow up attack on the minivan was unnecessary as there
was nothing apparent to make it a target. They would have been better
waiting for the ground troops with the Bradley FV's to arrive on scene.

You might well ask how the non-combatants in Dresden felt about the
fire bombing, which RAF Bomber Command, and the 8th AF justified by
saying in effect, "It was next on the list of targets, who cares about
civilians."

The W. T. Sherman philosophy of war in action.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 1/30/2011 9:22 AM, tony cooper wrote:


David is correct in one sense, but he's not very good at critical
thinking.

A 20 year-old unemployed motorcyclist was killed this weekend in a
road accident. The local television station devoted a segment to the
story and the local newspaper gave it two column-inches.

Dozens of Iraqis died this weekend from various acts of violence.
They were not named in the newspaper here and the local television
stations made only a general reference to violence in Iraq.

Would David's Martian conclude that one Orlando resident has more
worth than a few dozen Iraqis, or would the Martian understand that
newspapers and television news programs give space and time to what is
of local interest?

When a soldier from Orlando is killed in action in one of the Mideast
conflict areas, that individual's death - and the family he/she leaves
behind - is given somewhat extensive coverage in the Orlando media
outlets. The dozens of deaths in the same time period of residents of
that area rates coverage only if they all go at once or in some noted
incident.

Is this valuing an American higher than an Afghani or an Iraqi? Or is
it just the media doing what is supposed to do in reporting to the
public that the media serves?



the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get in
the Iraqi and Afghan press?




--
Peter

Savageduck wrote:

They were looking for any excuse to pull the trigger. However they were
working in a hostile environment which encouraged such action. The
rules of engagement permitted them to fire once the first AK47 was
seen, and that was clearly visible. There was no clear ID of the group
as press. The follow up attack on the minivan was unnecessary as there
was nothing apparent to make it a target. They would have been better
waiting for the ground troops with the Bradley FV's to arrive on scene.

The widely circulated video was unfortunately edited. In the original
there was an individual with an RPG. This does not condone the
killing of civilians.

You might well ask how the non-combatants in Dresden felt about
the fire bombing

I can think of very few cases where the mass killing of civilians
resulting in anything other that people determined to defend
themselves at all costs.


w..

On 2011.01.30 14:51 , Walter Banks wrote:

The widely circulated video was unfortunately edited. In the original
there was an individual with an RPG. This does not condone the
killing of civilians.


Total and absolute spin****.

--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

On 1/30/11 1:35 PM, in article
, "peter"
wrote:

On 1/30/2011 9:22 AM, tony cooper wrote:


David is correct in one sense, but he's not very good at critical
thinking.

A 20 year-old unemployed motorcyclist was killed this weekend in a
road accident. The local television station devoted a segment to the
story and the local newspaper gave it two column-inches.

Dozens of Iraqis died this weekend from various acts of violence.
They were not named in the newspaper here and the local television
stations made only a general reference to violence in Iraq.

Would David's Martian conclude that one Orlando resident has more
worth than a few dozen Iraqis, or would the Martian understand that
newspapers and television news programs give space and time to what is
of local interest?

When a soldier from Orlando is killed in action in one of the Mideast
conflict areas, that individual's death - and the family he/she leaves
behind - is given somewhat extensive coverage in the Orlando media
outlets. The dozens of deaths in the same time period of residents of
that area rates coverage only if they all go at once or in some noted
incident.

Is this valuing an American higher than an Afghani or an Iraqi? Or is
it just the media doing what is supposed to do in reporting to the
public that the media serves?



the flip side of that is how much coverage did the motorcyclist get in
the Iraqi and Afghan press?


BINGO!