a portrait - Ellen DeGeneres

"Mark L" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 May 2010 01:04:56 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:


"Mark L" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 18 May 2010 20:15:17 -0400, "Peter"

wrote:

"Mark L" wrote in message
m...

You will find an excellent micro-example of this playing out in the
popular
TV show called "Survivor". If there was no monetary reward you would
see
a
very very different game being played. The most intelligent, wise, and
strongest would be the most valued members. I've lived in just such a
community for three years during the 70's. Living off the land on a
remote
South Pacific island with approximately 50 to 100 others. Money had
absolutely no value to any of us there. I could play the TV game-show
of
"Survivor" for a year while standing on my head, it would be an
enjoyable
way to live, but I would not win their game. Instead (in the
capitalists'
game of "Survivor") the most intelligent, wise, and strongest are very
often voted off first because they are a threat to the less
intelligent,
less wise, but greedy. Eventually only the most self-serving,
manipulative,
and deceitful ones are left. (Does this remind you of any faction of
your
own present society? Most call it "the government".) In a capitalist
promoting society you are getting a clear and frightening glimpse of
the
evolutionary future of humanity being played out. "As is the fractal
part,
so goes the fractal whole."


Was that the place they used bananas as currency?
I can just hear the parents yelling at their kids. "YOU MUST THINK MONEY
GROWS ON TREES."

No. Your personality and what you could do for others was your only
"currency". Those without either could not "afford" to live there and
left
on their own. That kind of currency does not grow on trees, nor can
someone
else just give it to you, or leave it to you in their Will. Bananas,
like
everything else, was shared for free. We used one large cave for what we
called "The Library". If you happened to be foraging and gathered too
much
of something or received some item from a pass-through tourist and
didn't
need it, it would be put into "The Library". Where anyone who needed
anything could go and get it without even having to sign it out. No need
to
return it either, unless you wanted to. "The Library" was always packed
full. It contained a few books, many utensils, emergency medical
supplies,
fishing/diving gear, maps, clothing (but nobody wore clothing there so
that
was mostly used to make more functional items), etc. Since we liked
fresh
foods there was a rather large stockpile of unused canned-goods and
other
dry-goods in "The Library" too. We had more enjoyable meals by spearing
our
food on the reefs or hunting inland. Lobster, wrasse, abalone, $90 per
qt.
limpet-like shellfish delicacies that are sold in specialty shops today
(I
would regularly lunch on those, they were 4x's the size you can find in
any
store), mountain-goat, etc. Going up into the highlands of the valley to
find all manner of fruits, nuts, and vegetables that you pay an arm and
a
leg for in any store today. Even coffee-beans were readily available. I
used to roast them in a pan over a campfire. All for free. Nobody had
any
set "jobs" and there were no "rulers" nor "leaders". People just did
what
they enjoyed doing and doing for each other. Somehow everything always
got
done. Any conflicts were usually solved by talking during dinner. After
dinners those who had no hunting nor foraging skills might offer their
services as masseuses to those who worked hard all day. Others provided
entertainment. Some acted as valuable teachers for those that wanted to
learn. Some tried their hand at all of these things.

Many who came through couldn't afford to live there for free. There was
nothing in their personality that they could or would do for others.
They
would just leave without even being told to. Total failures. Perfect
reflections of present society.

Before you even bother asking the most often asked question of me, "Why
did
_you_ leave this paradise?" I'll answer with the only answer that came
to
me one night while laying on the grass-covered helicopter landing and
staring up into the star-filled sky: "A student's lessons are for naught
if
they remain sitting at their desk." After receiving that lesson there
was
no choice, my time had come, I had to leave. But not without having to
convince many others first.

Reminds me of a hippie I used to work with.....He was always extolling the
mesa top in Arizona where he used to live.....A colony of hippies that
"removed themselves from society" and "made it on their own" away from all
the trials and tribulations of the modern world. I asked him what they did
when one of their members got sick, or tripped and broke something. "Oh,
we
had doctors there" he said.....Doctors who were trained in huge stainless
steel hospitals, I asked. He fell silent.....And where did you buy your
drugs? - Oh, we went into town to the drugstore.....Drugs that were made
in
huge stainless steel factories? - Well, you get the idea....They were not
really independent of modern society at all.......

Too bad for them. We learned all the herbal cures of the culture of the
island we were on. There's a reason the emergency medical supplies were in
The Library. Nobody ever had need of them. The few that did use them were
newcomers that hadn't learned better ways yet. Did you know, for example,
that a simple Ti plant leaf can be used two ways to dress a wound? The
dull
side is astringent and will help to close up a clean wound. The shiny side
has an anti-coagulative property and would allow a wound to drain and
flush
out any infection. Both sides having an antibiotic property.

Did you know that during WWII when they ran out of penicillin that they
reverted back to an old "folk remedy" of using the spice Thyme to fight
infections? They found it worked better than penicillin. But since no
doctor or hospital can pay their light bills or the CEOs line their
pockets
with sales of Thyme from the grocery story it's never prescribed.

Enjoy your "stainless steel factories" that the majority, and most at risk
of illness and disease, can no longer afford. The medical system of modern
society has an impending collapse of its own on the way. The incurable
world pandemic will start in whatever communities are the most financially
poor. You have ensured your own demise with greed. Do read "The Masque of
the Red Death" by Edgar Alan Poe. All the money in the world will not be
able to save you.

I won't hold my breath....there's a lot more to modern medicine than Thyme
and penicillin.....The next time I break a leg, I think I'll check into a
"stainless steel" hospital, thanks......

"Pete Stavrakoglou" wrote in message
...
"Neil Harrington" wrote in message
...

"Stuffed Crust" wrote in message
ng.com...
In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Neil Harrington wrote:
Teachers do pretty well for themselves. I wouldn't worry about the
teachers.
Many of them obviously are overpaid now, considering the students they
are
turning out. When community colleges have to screen new high school
graduates to see which ones require courses in remedial English, you
know
something is seriously broken in our education system.

Teachers are doing well for themselves once they have 20 years under
their belt; entry-level pay is horrid.

I doubt it's really that "horrid," especially for a job that provides
plenty of holidays -- not to mention summers off. And in the vast
majority of cases they have no problem getting that 20 years in, and as
much longer as they like, since job security is clearly excellent in that
line of work. We have about 10% unemployment right now, probably about
17% if those who have given up looking for work are included -- but I
haven't heard about any teachers being thrown out of work, except at one
really lousy school in Rhode Island that was so bad they fired all the
teachers.


But blaming the teachers is a little facetious; no matter how good the
teachers are, if the um, material they're given (be it in the form of
the students or the stuff they're mandated to teach) is ****, then the
results will still be ****.

That's true enough, but doesn't most of the fault there lie with the
education community itself? They have powerful unions and therefore
plenty of political influence (especially now, all the way up to the
White House). If they can't do something about the ****, who can?

I notice that Catholic schools seem to be doing a lot better job, and
with a lot less money. And no unions.


I even agree that the system itself is fundamentally broken; it
was set up to churn out mindless workers, and it barely seems to be
doing that any more. Then again, it's not like there's any industry
left to employ said mindless workers.

When I went to school (which was a long, long time ago) it wasn't "set up
to churn out mindless workers." If that's really what it's become, then
that too is surely the direct fault of the education community.

Come to Long Island where you'll find that many teachers are going to lose
their jobs. The state has cut funding and there's no money to pay all of
them. Now, they earn a good salary on Long Island. Starting pay is about
40K, more in some districts. Every teacher in New York is required to
have an MBA after five years of receiving their teaching license. So, if
after five years, a teacher is earning 45K (assuming a 3% per year
increase which is generous nowadays and doesn't really happen) with an
MBA, is that really overpaid?

I'm married to a school teacher. My wife teaches kindergarten special ed.
She works hard, darn hard. She has two MBAs, has had her wrist broken,
her kneecap shattered, and almost had a miscarraige due to injuries
inflicted by students. She deals with parents who should never have been
allowed to reproduce and cause more problems than their kids. She earns
every penny she gets.


I went to school on Long Island.......High school in Bayside in 1950 to
1852. We had a geometry teacher who was a drunk. She missed every Monday
morning., and all she did on Tuesday thru Friday was sit at her desk and
stare at the rear wall. About one third of the class left and never came
back////These were the ones who didn't have any interest in learning
geometry anyway. The rest of us divided ourselves into study groups,
assigned ourselves homework from the book, and each group would put a
problem on the board and discuss it the next day. We taught ourselves
geometry without any help from the teacher whatsoever! As a matter of fact,
having that third who weren't interested leave was one of the best things
about the class. The rest of us were really interested in learning the
subject. Everyone got 90% for a class grade at the end, but of course, NYC
had the regence exam, and that was our real grade. (at least for Eastern
universities) We all did quite well in the regence exam......

"GMAN" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 08:15:57 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

Oh!
I was not aware that the Republicans have been in charge for fifty years.

The republican political party hasn't been in charge for fifty years, nor
have the democrats. CEOs have been in charge for 50+ years. They're the
ones that decide which politicians you get to vote for in any party.
Carefully groomed to do the CEOs' bidding, not yours, no matter what party
you vote for. It hasn't been "a government by the people and for the
people" for a very long time. It's been "a government by the CEOs and for
the CEOs". Capitalism has completely destroyed democracy a long time ago.
You're just too stupid to realize it. The majority of the CEOs, however,
being republicans with their wonderful "trickle-down theory" that ended
with 95% of the wealth of the world remaining in their own bank accounts.
That was no "theory". It was a carefully calculated manipulation tactic to
make themselves even wealthier. Idiots like you then bought it--hook,
line,
and sinker.

You're not very bright. I'll mark you down in the "won't survive" column.

If THEY earned that wealth, what the **** gives you the right to take
their
money for yourself?

Right! - He is a Robin Hooder.....Wants to steal all the money away from the
mean, nasty old rich people and give it to the hard working and honest poor
people. But I don't know any mean old rich people....I know that I worked
hard for over 40 years and saved and invested my money in American
businesses and am now worth over 3/4 of a million dollars.....I didn't steal
a penny of it from anyone.....As a matter of fact, many have used my money
to start up new businesses and put others to work in them. He is a
socialist. But socialism didn't, (and doesn't) invent all the miraculous
devices we enjoy today. The cell phones, radios, TV's, drugs, tools,
automobiles and other stuff that improves our life styles and allows us to
live longer, and better lives....This stuff comes from greedy old
capitalists....The very people he wants to steal all of the money from to
give away to the "poor". And you know what the poor will do with it when
they get it? They sure won't invest any of it in businesses.....They will
just spend it, because that's all they know what to do with money.....Spend
it......No poor person ever created a job for anyone else.....You can bet on
that.

"Savageduck" wrote in message
news:2010052023445033169-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
On 2010-05-20 22:55:11 -0700, "Bill Graham" said:




I went to school on Long Island.......High school in Bayside in 1950 to
1852. We had a geometry teacher who was a drunk.

1950-1852? Apparently not the only one who was drunk!

--
Regards,

Savageduck


Somebody needs to invent a spellchecker that works with numbers......

On Thu, 20 May 2010 22:40:00 -0700, "Bill Graham" wrote:


"Mark L" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 May 2010 01:04:56 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:


"Mark L" wrote in message
news On Tue, 18 May 2010 20:15:17 -0400, "Peter"

wrote:

"Mark L" wrote in message
om...

You will find an excellent micro-example of this playing out in the
popular
TV show called "Survivor". If there was no monetary reward you would
see
a
very very different game being played. The most intelligent, wise, and
strongest would be the most valued members. I've lived in just such a
community for three years during the 70's. Living off the land on a
remote
South Pacific island with approximately 50 to 100 others. Money had
absolutely no value to any of us there. I could play the TV game-show
of
"Survivor" for a year while standing on my head, it would be an
enjoyable
way to live, but I would not win their game. Instead (in the
capitalists'
game of "Survivor") the most intelligent, wise, and strongest are very
often voted off first because they are a threat to the less
intelligent,
less wise, but greedy. Eventually only the most self-serving,
manipulative,
and deceitful ones are left. (Does this remind you of any faction of
your
own present society? Most call it "the government".) In a capitalist
promoting society you are getting a clear and frightening glimpse of
the
evolutionary future of humanity being played out. "As is the fractal
part,
so goes the fractal whole."


Was that the place they used bananas as currency?
I can just hear the parents yelling at their kids. "YOU MUST THINK MONEY
GROWS ON TREES."

No. Your personality and what you could do for others was your only
"currency". Those without either could not "afford" to live there and
left
on their own. That kind of currency does not grow on trees, nor can
someone
else just give it to you, or leave it to you in their Will. Bananas,
like
everything else, was shared for free. We used one large cave for what we
called "The Library". If you happened to be foraging and gathered too
much
of something or received some item from a pass-through tourist and
didn't
need it, it would be put into "The Library". Where anyone who needed
anything could go and get it without even having to sign it out. No need
to
return it either, unless you wanted to. "The Library" was always packed
full. It contained a few books, many utensils, emergency medical
supplies,
fishing/diving gear, maps, clothing (but nobody wore clothing there so
that
was mostly used to make more functional items), etc. Since we liked
fresh
foods there was a rather large stockpile of unused canned-goods and
other
dry-goods in "The Library" too. We had more enjoyable meals by spearing
our
food on the reefs or hunting inland. Lobster, wrasse, abalone, $90 per
qt.
limpet-like shellfish delicacies that are sold in specialty shops today
(I
would regularly lunch on those, they were 4x's the size you can find in
any
store), mountain-goat, etc. Going up into the highlands of the valley to
find all manner of fruits, nuts, and vegetables that you pay an arm and
a
leg for in any store today. Even coffee-beans were readily available. I
used to roast them in a pan over a campfire. All for free. Nobody had
any
set "jobs" and there were no "rulers" nor "leaders". People just did
what
they enjoyed doing and doing for each other. Somehow everything always
got
done. Any conflicts were usually solved by talking during dinner. After
dinners those who had no hunting nor foraging skills might offer their
services as masseuses to those who worked hard all day. Others provided
entertainment. Some acted as valuable teachers for those that wanted to
learn. Some tried their hand at all of these things.

Many who came through couldn't afford to live there for free. There was
nothing in their personality that they could or would do for others.
They
would just leave without even being told to. Total failures. Perfect
reflections of present society.

Before you even bother asking the most often asked question of me, "Why
did
_you_ leave this paradise?" I'll answer with the only answer that came
to
me one night while laying on the grass-covered helicopter landing and
staring up into the star-filled sky: "A student's lessons are for naught
if
they remain sitting at their desk." After receiving that lesson there
was
no choice, my time had come, I had to leave. But not without having to
convince many others first.

Reminds me of a hippie I used to work with.....He was always extolling the
mesa top in Arizona where he used to live.....A colony of hippies that
"removed themselves from society" and "made it on their own" away from all
the trials and tribulations of the modern world. I asked him what they did
when one of their members got sick, or tripped and broke something. "Oh,
we
had doctors there" he said.....Doctors who were trained in huge stainless
steel hospitals, I asked. He fell silent.....And where did you buy your
drugs? - Oh, we went into town to the drugstore.....Drugs that were made
in
huge stainless steel factories? - Well, you get the idea....They were not
really independent of modern society at all.......

Too bad for them. We learned all the herbal cures of the culture of the
island we were on. There's a reason the emergency medical supplies were in
The Library. Nobody ever had need of them. The few that did use them were
newcomers that hadn't learned better ways yet. Did you know, for example,
that a simple Ti plant leaf can be used two ways to dress a wound? The
dull
side is astringent and will help to close up a clean wound. The shiny side
has an anti-coagulative property and would allow a wound to drain and
flush
out any infection. Both sides having an antibiotic property.

Did you know that during WWII when they ran out of penicillin that they
reverted back to an old "folk remedy" of using the spice Thyme to fight
infections? They found it worked better than penicillin. But since no
doctor or hospital can pay their light bills or the CEOs line their
pockets
with sales of Thyme from the grocery story it's never prescribed.

Enjoy your "stainless steel factories" that the majority, and most at risk
of illness and disease, can no longer afford. The medical system of modern
society has an impending collapse of its own on the way. The incurable
world pandemic will start in whatever communities are the most financially
poor. You have ensured your own demise with greed. Do read "The Masque of
the Red Death" by Edgar Alan Poe. All the money in the world will not be
able to save you.

I won't hold my breath....there's a lot more to modern medicine than Thyme
and penicillin.....The next time I break a leg, I think I'll check into a
"stainless steel" hospital, thanks......

I broke an arm about 10 years ago. They screwed up the first operation and
didn't set the bone right. To fix their errors they scheduled a second
operation. One that took FIVE HOURS on the operating table (I still have
all the medical records of this fiasco if anyone wants proof). In the five
hours it took them to set a simple and clean bone fracture they could have
done a heart-lung transplant. But no, they needed and wanted all that
insurance money instead. Still they didn't get the second operation
correct. When I refused to pay for the second operation, that was needed to
fix their first malpractice in the first place, they tried to sue me for my
home and land. I would have been better off splinting it by myself in the
very first place and never entering the doors of any hospital.

Are you even aware that more people die from non-illness related medical
errors in hospitals than they do from car accidents? You have a better
chance of driving recklessly and surviving than any time you walk through
the doors of any hospital. This is a verified FACT.

Yes, you do that. Go to those "stainless steel" hospitals that can't even
set a simple bone fracture today without you possibly losing your home and
all you have ever worked for in your life.

Do you mind if I laugh some more at your stupidity and naivety?

"Bill Graham" wrote in message
...

"Pete Stavrakoglou" wrote in message
...
"Neil Harrington" wrote in message
...

"Stuffed Crust" wrote in message
ng.com...
In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Neil Harrington
wrote:
Teachers do pretty well for themselves. I wouldn't worry about the
teachers.
Many of them obviously are overpaid now, considering the students they
are
turning out. When community colleges have to screen new high school
graduates to see which ones require courses in remedial English, you
know
something is seriously broken in our education system.

Teachers are doing well for themselves once they have 20 years under
their belt; entry-level pay is horrid.

I doubt it's really that "horrid," especially for a job that provides
plenty of holidays -- not to mention summers off. And in the vast
majority of cases they have no problem getting that 20 years in, and as
much longer as they like, since job security is clearly excellent in
that line of work. We have about 10% unemployment right now, probably
about 17% if those who have given up looking for work are included --
but I haven't heard about any teachers being thrown out of work, except
at one really lousy school in Rhode Island that was so bad they fired
all the teachers.


But blaming the teachers is a little facetious; no matter how good the
teachers are, if the um, material they're given (be it in the form of
the students or the stuff they're mandated to teach) is ****, then the
results will still be ****.

That's true enough, but doesn't most of the fault there lie with the
education community itself? They have powerful unions and therefore
plenty of political influence (especially now, all the way up to the
White House). If they can't do something about the ****, who can?

I notice that Catholic schools seem to be doing a lot better job, and
with a lot less money. And no unions.


I even agree that the system itself is fundamentally broken; it
was set up to churn out mindless workers, and it barely seems to be
doing that any more. Then again, it's not like there's any industry
left to employ said mindless workers.

When I went to school (which was a long, long time ago) it wasn't "set
up to churn out mindless workers." If that's really what it's become,
then that too is surely the direct fault of the education community.

Come to Long Island where you'll find that many teachers are going to
lose their jobs. The state has cut funding and there's no money to pay
all of them. Now, they earn a good salary on Long Island. Starting pay
is about 40K, more in some districts. Every teacher in New York is
required to have an MBA after five years of receiving their teaching
license. So, if after five years, a teacher is earning 45K (assuming a
3% per year increase which is generous nowadays and doesn't really
happen) with an MBA, is that really overpaid?

I'm married to a school teacher. My wife teaches kindergarten special
ed. She works hard, darn hard. She has two MBAs, has had her wrist
broken, her kneecap shattered, and almost had a miscarraige due to
injuries inflicted by students. She deals with parents who should never
have been allowed to reproduce and cause more problems than their kids.
She earns every penny she gets.


I went to school on Long Island.......High school in Bayside in 1950 to
1852. We had a geometry teacher who was a drunk. She missed every Monday
morning., and all she did on Tuesday thru Friday was sit at her desk and
stare at the rear wall. About one third of the class left and never came
back////These were the ones who didn't have any interest in learning
geometry anyway. The rest of us divided ourselves into study groups,
assigned ourselves homework from the book, and each group would put a
problem on the board and discuss it the next day. We taught ourselves
geometry without any help from the teacher whatsoever! As a matter of
fact, having that third who weren't interested leave was one of the best
things about the class. The rest of us were really interested in learning
the subject. Everyone got 90% for a class grade at the end, but of course,
NYC had the regence exam, and that was our real grade. (at least for
Eastern universities) We all did quite well in the regence exam......

Regents testing is still administered.

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Bill Graham wrote:
geometry without any help from the teacher whatsoever! As a matter of fact,
having that third who weren't interested leave was one of the best things
about the class. The rest of us were really interested

And that, I think, is the key point. GEtting rid of those who don't
want to be there (and/or are unwilling to do the necessary work) does
wonders. But then that goes against one of the core tenants of
mandatory schooling...

No Child Left Behind also means that No Child Gets Ahea..

- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Melbourne, FL ^^ (mail/jabber/gtalk) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

"Bill Graham" wrote in message
...

"Savageduck" wrote in message
news:2010052023445033169-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
On 2010-05-20 22:55:11 -0700, "Bill Graham" said:




I went to school on Long Island.......High school in Bayside in 1950 to
1852. We had a geometry teacher who was a drunk.

1950-1852? Apparently not the only one who was drunk!

--
Regards,

Savageduck


Somebody needs to invent a spellchecker that works with numbers......


My dictionary shows that The Régence is the period in French history between
1715 and 1723, when King Louis XV was a minor and the land was governed by a
Regent.
The exam NY is called "Regents" My spell checker shows no such word as
"regence."

--
Peter

"Mark L" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 May 2010 22:40:00 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:


"Mark L" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 19 May 2010 01:04:56 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:


"Mark L" wrote in message
news On Tue, 18 May 2010 20:15:17 -0400, "Peter"

wrote:

"Mark L" wrote in message
news:6596v5ln8fnmjathc1a9i0d75d0a19m8c5@4ax. com...

You will find an excellent micro-example of this playing out in the
popular
TV show called "Survivor". If there was no monetary reward you would
see
a
very very different game being played. The most intelligent, wise,
and
strongest would be the most valued members. I've lived in just such
a
community for three years during the 70's. Living off the land on a
remote
South Pacific island with approximately 50 to 100 others. Money had
absolutely no value to any of us there. I could play the TV
game-show
of
"Survivor" for a year while standing on my head, it would be an
enjoyable
way to live, but I would not win their game. Instead (in the
capitalists'
game of "Survivor") the most intelligent, wise, and strongest are
very
often voted off first because they are a threat to the less
intelligent,
less wise, but greedy. Eventually only the most self-serving,
manipulative,
and deceitful ones are left. (Does this remind you of any faction of
your
own present society? Most call it "the government".) In a capitalist
promoting society you are getting a clear and frightening glimpse of
the
evolutionary future of humanity being played out. "As is the fractal
part,
so goes the fractal whole."


Was that the place they used bananas as currency?
I can just hear the parents yelling at their kids. "YOU MUST THINK
MONEY
GROWS ON TREES."

No. Your personality and what you could do for others was your only
"currency". Those without either could not "afford" to live there and
left
on their own. That kind of currency does not grow on trees, nor can
someone
else just give it to you, or leave it to you in their Will. Bananas,
like
everything else, was shared for free. We used one large cave for what
we
called "The Library". If you happened to be foraging and gathered too
much
of something or received some item from a pass-through tourist and
didn't
need it, it would be put into "The Library". Where anyone who needed
anything could go and get it without even having to sign it out. No
need
to
return it either, unless you wanted to. "The Library" was always
packed
full. It contained a few books, many utensils, emergency medical
supplies,
fishing/diving gear, maps, clothing (but nobody wore clothing there so
that
was mostly used to make more functional items), etc. Since we liked
fresh
foods there was a rather large stockpile of unused canned-goods and
other
dry-goods in "The Library" too. We had more enjoyable meals by
spearing
our
food on the reefs or hunting inland. Lobster, wrasse, abalone, $90 per
qt.
limpet-like shellfish delicacies that are sold in specialty shops
today
(I
would regularly lunch on those, they were 4x's the size you can find
in
any
store), mountain-goat, etc. Going up into the highlands of the valley
to
find all manner of fruits, nuts, and vegetables that you pay an arm
and
a
leg for in any store today. Even coffee-beans were readily available.
I
used to roast them in a pan over a campfire. All for free. Nobody had
any
set "jobs" and there were no "rulers" nor "leaders". People just did
what
they enjoyed doing and doing for each other. Somehow everything always
got
done. Any conflicts were usually solved by talking during dinner.
After
dinners those who had no hunting nor foraging skills might offer their
services as masseuses to those who worked hard all day. Others
provided
entertainment. Some acted as valuable teachers for those that wanted
to
learn. Some tried their hand at all of these things.

Many who came through couldn't afford to live there for free. There
was
nothing in their personality that they could or would do for others.
They
would just leave without even being told to. Total failures. Perfect
reflections of present society.

Before you even bother asking the most often asked question of me,
"Why
did
_you_ leave this paradise?" I'll answer with the only answer that came
to
me one night while laying on the grass-covered helicopter landing and
staring up into the star-filled sky: "A student's lessons are for
naught
if
they remain sitting at their desk." After receiving that lesson there
was
no choice, my time had come, I had to leave. But not without having to
convince many others first.

Reminds me of a hippie I used to work with.....He was always extolling
the
mesa top in Arizona where he used to live.....A colony of hippies that
"removed themselves from society" and "made it on their own" away from
all
the trials and tribulations of the modern world. I asked him what they
did
when one of their members got sick, or tripped and broke something. "Oh,
we
had doctors there" he said.....Doctors who were trained in huge
stainless
steel hospitals, I asked. He fell silent.....And where did you buy your
drugs? - Oh, we went into town to the drugstore.....Drugs that were made
in
huge stainless steel factories? - Well, you get the idea....They were
not
really independent of modern society at all.......

Too bad for them. We learned all the herbal cures of the culture of the
island we were on. There's a reason the emergency medical supplies were
in
The Library. Nobody ever had need of them. The few that did use them
were
newcomers that hadn't learned better ways yet. Did you know, for
example,
that a simple Ti plant leaf can be used two ways to dress a wound? The
dull
side is astringent and will help to close up a clean wound. The shiny
side
has an anti-coagulative property and would allow a wound to drain and
flush
out any infection. Both sides having an antibiotic property.

Did you know that during WWII when they ran out of penicillin that they
reverted back to an old "folk remedy" of using the spice Thyme to fight
infections? They found it worked better than penicillin. But since no
doctor or hospital can pay their light bills or the CEOs line their
pockets
with sales of Thyme from the grocery story it's never prescribed.

Enjoy your "stainless steel factories" that the majority, and most at
risk
of illness and disease, can no longer afford. The medical system of
modern
society has an impending collapse of its own on the way. The incurable
world pandemic will start in whatever communities are the most
financially
poor. You have ensured your own demise with greed. Do read "The Masque
of
the Red Death" by Edgar Alan Poe. All the money in the world will not be
able to save you.

I won't hold my breath....there's a lot more to modern medicine than Thyme
and penicillin.....The next time I break a leg, I think I'll check into a
"stainless steel" hospital, thanks......

I broke an arm about 10 years ago. They screwed up the first operation and
didn't set the bone right. To fix their errors they scheduled a second
operation. One that took FIVE HOURS on the operating table (I still have
all the medical records of this fiasco if anyone wants proof). In the five
hours it took them to set a simple and clean bone fracture they could have
done a heart-lung transplant. But no, they needed and wanted all that
insurance money instead. Still they didn't get the second operation
correct. When I refused to pay for the second operation, that was needed
to
fix their first malpractice in the first place, they tried to sue me for
my
home and land. I would have been better off splinting it by myself in the
very first place and never entering the doors of any hospital.

Are you even aware that more people die from non-illness related medical
errors in hospitals than they do from car accidents? You have a better
chance of driving recklessly and surviving than any time you walk through
the doors of any hospital. This is a verified FACT.

Yes, you do that. Go to those "stainless steel" hospitals that can't even
set a simple bone fracture today without you possibly losing your home and
all you have ever worked for in your life.

Do you mind if I laugh some more at your stupidity and naivety?


I won't mind.....When you give me a reasonable alternative. but living on a
mountaintop in Arizona and trying to set my fractures with some wild herb or
other isn't what I call, "reasonable".

I certainly wouldn't voluntarily enter a hospital unless I had no other
choice, but in those few times when I have had to so such a thing, there
really wasn't any other choice.....What will you do the next time you break
a bone?

Perhaps I am a bit luckier than you.....I have had some pretty good doctors
in my life. I haven't generally needed them myself, but my wives and
children and other friends have, and while their experiences haven't always
been perfect, they have, in general been pretty good.

"Pete Stavrakoglou" wrote in message
...
"Bill Graham" wrote in message
fact, having that third who weren't interested leave was one of the best
things about the class. The rest of us were really interested in learning
the subject. Everyone got 90% for a class grade at the end, but of
course, NYC had the regence exam, and that was our real grade. (at least
for Eastern universities) We all did quite well in the regence exam......

Regents testing is still administered.

I thought the NYC regence system was an excellent idea.....It insured some
statewide uniformity in the teaching process. Every student of a particular
subject in the whole state got to take the exact same test at the exact same
time. Although I am unaware of exactly who evaluated the test results, and
where this took place, the tests I saw and took were in general, excellent.
It's too bad that at that time (the 50's) they weren't accepted in all other
parts of the country.....I had to repeat some of my classes when I applied
for entrance into the University of California back in 1952.......