A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Digital Photography » Digital Photography
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The last days of analog



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old April 25th 18, 02:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default The last days of analog

On Apr 24, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:51:35 -0400,
wrote:

In , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the corrections can be done *outside* of the camera, where you can
guess all you want and undo it whenever you make an incorrect guess,
or, let the computer do the calculations *for* you, eliminating the
need to guess.

Have another look at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dku87csvth...00941.jpg?dl=0

That's the result of technology applied to
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgfbskbe4c...941-2.jpg?dl=0

that's the result of not doing it correctly.

There were constraints around me that limited what I could do. I hoped
that I would get enough image to be useful but I was wrong. If I had a
camera with all the necessary movements I would have known that it was
a lost cause before I took the picture.


it wouldn't have been a lost cause had you known how to work within
those constraints.


What would you have done?


Buy a Fujifilm GFX 50S and the Cambo Actus-GFX View Camera system:

https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-gfx-view-camera/

https://blog.cambo.com/2017/12/20/ca...gfx50s-camera-
review/

I believe they also have systems for the X-T2 and Canon & Nikon DSLRs.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #52  
Old April 25th 18, 04:19 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default The last days of analog

On 2018-04-25 13:46:32 +0000, Savageduck said:

On Apr 24, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:51:35 -0400,
wrote:

In , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the corrections can be done *outside* of the camera, where you can
guess all you want and undo it whenever you make an incorrect guess,
or, let the computer do the calculations *for* you, eliminating the
need to guess.

Have another look at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dku87csvth...00941.jpg?dl=0

That's the result of technology applied to
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgfbskbe4c...941-2.jpg?dl=0

that's the result of not doing it correctly.

There were constraints around me that limited what I could do. I hoped
that I would get enough image to be useful but I was wrong. If I had a
camera with all the necessary movements I would have known that it was
a lost cause before I took the picture.

it wouldn't have been a lost cause had you known how to work within
those constraints.


What would you have done?


Buy a Fujifilm GFX 50S and the Cambo Actus-GFX View Camera system:

https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-gfx-view-camera/

https://blog.cambo.com/2017/12/20/ca...gfx50s-camera-
review/

I believe they also have systems for the X-T2 and Canon & Nikon DSLRs.


Not as portable nor practical as tilt-shift lenses but it depends on
your needs right? Here's the Horseman take on the concept:

https://vimeo.com/6350947

There's also the stitching back approach:

https://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Pro-Lens-Mount-Adapter/dp/B004G17LFG
--
teleportation kills

  #53  
Old April 26th 18, 04:45 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default The last days of analog

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 11:58:00 +0200, android wrote:

On 2018-04-25 08:56:09 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 07:56:36 +0200, android wrote:

On 2018-04-25 05:23:34 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 20:08:57 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

regardless, stitching images is simple. in fact, it's almost entirely
automatic.

or were you planning on stitching them individually?

I have done that and it works quite well.

i used to do that long ago, and no it doesn't.

In that case, operator error.

it's a *huge* pain to get it right and the results are nowhere near as
good as when a computer does it, especially when the computer makes the
necessary adjustments to merge the images (and even gets the order
correct).

However I am happy to use
software.

of course, since it's much easier and produces far better results.



We are talking about camera adjustments, remember?

which takes more than a few seconds. movements are not automatic.

Either you have never used such a camera or you didn't know what you
were doing.

i have long ago, and i do.

let's not forget that you incorrectly claimed that to photograph a
'tall wall' would require tilting the *rear* standard, which is wrong.

That's the problem with your surreptitious snips. You haven't quoted
me correctly. I originally wrote:

"There are some things which as far as I know can't be done with
digital. Consider photographing a very tall wall from close up
while keeping the whole image in focus. A technical camera copes
with this by raising and tilting the lens upwards while tilting the
camera back".

If you are going to keep the whole of the wall in focus the plane of
the wall, the plane of the lens and the film plane must have a common
point of intersection. The lens will have to be raised and tilted
back. The film plane will have to be tilted back more.
to the rear.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cheimpflug.jpg
is a diagram from a related case, where the photographer wants to keep
the ground in focus. I don't know of a digital camera which will do
quite that.

http://www.hartbleilens.com/product_info.php?products_id=28

http://tinyurl.com/ydyyrcgt


To do what I am talking about you have to be able to achieve vertical
displacement of the lens while tilting it in the other direction. I
dont see a Hartblei lens which will let you do that.


The problem that you present is solved by a tilt and shift lense:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Scheimpflug.jpg


That drawing is not accurate. The rays should pass through the optical
center of the lens at equal angles. They should go on to meet the
upper and lower edges of the sensor/film plane. The dotted line shown
as passing through the lens mounting plate should pass through the
optical center of the lens and be parallel to the plane of the lens.

I will try and get time over the next few days to draw it all out
accurately so I can show you what I mean.

The linked one is one:

http://www.hartbleilens.com/images/product_images/popup_images/28_7.jpg

You could go Canon of course, if you have a problem with Hartblei:

http://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/ef401.html


I would have a bigger problem with Canon. All my gear is Nikon.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #54  
Old April 26th 18, 04:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default The last days of analog

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 05:46:13 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


We are talking about camera adjustments, remember?

which takes more than a few seconds. movements are not automatic.

Either you have never used such a camera or you didn't know what you
were doing.

i have long ago, and i do.

let's not forget that you incorrectly claimed that to photograph a
'tall wall' would require tilting the *rear* standard, which is wrong.


That's the problem with your surreptitious snips. You haven't quoted
me correctly.


i know exactly what you wrote.

I originally wrote:

"There are some things which as far as I know can't be done with
digital.


then you know wrong.

Consider photographing a very tall wall from close up
while keeping the whole image in focus. A technical camera copes
with this by raising and tilting the lens upwards while tilting the
camera back".


as i said, the camera back is *not* tilted for a tall wall, or more
commonly a tall building because walls are boring, however, the math is
the same.


Let's say it is the front of a 1000 year old building: and you have
limited room: and you want to have all of the wall in the best
possible focus. It's interesting and just making do with hyperfocal
distance is not good enough. You *have* to use a camera setup that
employs the same basic geometry of
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cheimpflug.jpg
(except that the assembly is pointing up rather than down).
Alternatively, tilt the diagram 90 degrees anticlockwise.r

the front standard (i.e., lens) is raised:
https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...f5b4b9/t/576c2
e495a655be13f013ab2/1467902630687/rise.gif

If you are going to keep the whole of the wall in focus the plane of
the wall, the plane of the lens and the film plane must have a common
point of intersection. The lens will have to be raised and tilted
back. The film plane will have to be tilted back more.
to the rear.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cheimpflug.jpg
is a diagram from a related case, where the photographer wants to keep
the ground in focus. I don't know of a digital camera which will do
quite that.


that's not relevant for the situation you described.


So you say. That's the very point I have been trying to describe.

here's a situation where it would be, and note the rear standard is
*parallel* to the building:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/576bd0f715d5dbd3def5b4b9/t/576c2e495a655be13f013aba/1467902699499/Scheimpflug.gif


I've seen that before but I don't think it qualifies as "photographing
a very tall wall from close up" as I originally specified.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #55  
Old April 26th 18, 05:05 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default The last days of analog

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 06:46:32 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Apr 24, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:51:35 -0400,
wrote:

In , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the corrections can be done *outside* of the camera, where you can
guess all you want and undo it whenever you make an incorrect guess,
or, let the computer do the calculations *for* you, eliminating the
need to guess.

Have another look at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dku87csvth...00941.jpg?dl=0

That's the result of technology applied to
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgfbskbe4c...941-2.jpg?dl=0

that's the result of not doing it correctly.

There were constraints around me that limited what I could do. I hoped
that I would get enough image to be useful but I was wrong. If I had a
camera with all the necessary movements I would have known that it was
a lost cause before I took the picture.

it wouldn't have been a lost cause had you known how to work within
those constraints.


What would you have done?


Buy a Fujifilm GFX 50S and the Cambo Actus-GFX View Camera system:

https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-gfx-view-camera/


Very nice - but $$$$$$

https://blog.cambo.com/2017/12/20/cambo-actus-gfx-and-fuji-gfx50s-camera-review/

I believe they also have systems for the X-T2 and Canon & Nikon DSLRs.


I think I would like a little more tilt and swing than that camera
offers.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #56  
Old April 26th 18, 05:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default The last days of analog

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 17:19:19 +0200, android wrote:

On 2018-04-25 13:46:32 +0000, Savageduck said:

On Apr 24, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:51:35 -0400,
wrote:

In , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the corrections can be done *outside* of the camera, where you can
guess all you want and undo it whenever you make an incorrect guess,
or, let the computer do the calculations *for* you, eliminating the
need to guess.

Have another look at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dku87csvth...00941.jpg?dl=0

That's the result of technology applied to
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgfbskbe4c...941-2.jpg?dl=0

that's the result of not doing it correctly.

There were constraints around me that limited what I could do. I hoped
that I would get enough image to be useful but I was wrong. If I had a
camera with all the necessary movements I would have known that it was
a lost cause before I took the picture.

it wouldn't have been a lost cause had you known how to work within
those constraints.

What would you have done?


Buy a Fujifilm GFX 50S and the Cambo Actus-GFX View Camera system:

https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-gfx-view-camera/

https://blog.cambo.com/2017/12/20/ca...gfx50s-camera-
review/

I believe they also have systems for the X-T2 and Canon & Nikon DSLRs.


Not as portable nor practical as tilt-shift lenses but it depends on
your needs right? Here's the Horseman take on the concept:

https://vimeo.com/6350947


Very interesting but you should take into account the comment from
Cambo site:

"As the GFX50s is mirrorless it will focus with lenses wider than
60mm. DSLRs cannot do this due to the mirror box, the rear element
is too far from the sensor."


There's also the stitching back approach:

https://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Pro-Lens-Mount-Adapter/dp/B004G17LFG


That might revitalise my old 4"x 5" field camera. If it only had a
decent lens :-(
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #57  
Old April 26th 18, 05:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default The last days of analog

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

The linked one is one:

http://www.hartbleilens.com/images/product_images/popup_images/28_7.jpg

You could go Canon of course, if you have a problem with Hartblei:

http://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/ef401.html


I would have a bigger problem with Canon. All my gear is Nikon.


then get all four nikon tilt/shift lenses:

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...-lenses/pc-nik
kor-19mm-f%252f4e-ed.html
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...-lenses/pc-e-n
ikkor-24mm-f3.5d-ed.html
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...-lenses/pc-e-m
icro-nikkor-45mm-f%252f2.8d-ed.html
https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-pr...-lenses/pc-e-m
icro-nikkor-85mm-f%252f2.8d.html

there's also a more affordable samyang/rokinon/etc., which is available
in several mounts:
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/...f-3.5-Tilt-Shi
ft-Lens-Review.aspx
The Samyang 24mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift Lens is, by far, the least
expensive tilt-shift lens available in Nikon or Canon mounts - and
possibly the only tilt-shift lens option for other brand DSLR cameras
(Sony, Olympus & Pentax).
  #58  
Old April 26th 18, 05:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default The last days of analog

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


I originally wrote:

"There are some things which as far as I know can't be done with
digital.


then you know wrong.

Consider photographing a very tall wall from close up
while keeping the whole image in focus. A technical camera copes
with this by raising and tilting the lens upwards while tilting the
camera back".


as i said, the camera back is *not* tilted for a tall wall, or more
commonly a tall building because walls are boring, however, the math is
the same.


Let's say it is the front of a 1000 year old building: and you have
limited room: and you want to have all of the wall in the best
possible focus. It's interesting and just making do with hyperfocal
distance is not good enough. You *have* to use a camera setup that
employs the same basic geometry of
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cheimpflug.jpg
(except that the assembly is pointing up rather than down).


no, you don't *have* to use such a setup for a tall building. in fact,
it would be a bad idea.

here's a situation where it would be, and note the rear standard is
*parallel* to the building:


https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...b9/t/576c2e495

a655be13f013aba/1467902699499/Scheimpflug.gif


I've seen that before but I don't think it qualifies as "photographing
a very tall wall from close up" as I originally specified.


it doesn't. that's the whole point.

scheimpflug is not needed for a tall building.
  #59  
Old April 26th 18, 06:29 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default The last days of analog

On 2018-04-26 04:12:38 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 17:19:19 +0200, android wrote:

On 2018-04-25 13:46:32 +0000, Savageduck said:

On Apr 24, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:51:35 -0400,
wrote:

In , Eric Stevens
wrote:

the corrections can be done *outside* of the camera, where you can
guess all you want and undo it whenever you make an incorrect guess,
or, let the computer do the calculations *for* you, eliminating the
need to guess.

Have another look at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dku87csvth...00941.jpg?dl=0

That's the result of technology applied to
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgfbskbe4c...941-2.jpg?dl=0

that's the result of not doing it correctly.

There were constraints around me that limited what I could do. I hoped
that I would get enough image to be useful but I was wrong. If I had a
camera with all the necessary movements I would have known that it was
a lost cause before I took the picture.

it wouldn't have been a lost cause had you known how to work within
those constraints.

What would you have done?

Buy a Fujifilm GFX 50S and the Cambo Actus-GFX View Camera system:

https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-gfx-view-camera/

https://blog.cambo.com/2017/12/20/ca...gfx50s-camera-
review/

I believe they also have systems for the X-T2 and Canon & Nikon DSLRs.


Not as portable nor practical as tilt-shift lenses but it depends on
your needs right? Here's the Horseman take on the concept:

https://vimeo.com/6350947


Very interesting but you should take into account the comment from
Cambo site:

"As the GFX50s is mirrorless it will focus with lenses wider than
60mm. DSLRs cannot do this due to the mirror box, the rear element
is too far from the sensor."


I think that that gear is intended for professional studio work...

There's also the stitching back approach:

https://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Pro-Lens-Mount-Adapter/dp/B004G17LFG


That might revitalise my old 4"x 5" field camera. If it only had a
decent lens :-(


Go retro! :-))
--
teleportation kills

  #60  
Old April 26th 18, 06:30 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,854
Default The last days of analog

On 2018-04-26 04:26:20 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


I originally wrote:

"There are some things which as far as I know can't be done with
digital.

then you know wrong.

Consider photographing a very tall wall from close up
while keeping the whole image in focus. A technical camera copes
with this by raising and tilting the lens upwards while tilting the
camera back".

as i said, the camera back is *not* tilted for a tall wall, or more
commonly a tall building because walls are boring, however, the math is
the same.


Let's say it is the front of a 1000 year old building: and you have
limited room: and you want to have all of the wall in the best
possible focus. It's interesting and just making do with hyperfocal
distance is not good enough. You *have* to use a camera setup that
employs the same basic geometry of
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cheimpflug.jpg
(except that the assembly is pointing up rather than down).


no, you don't *have* to use such a setup for a tall building. in fact,
it would be a bad idea.

here's a situation where it would be, and note the rear standard is
*parallel* to the building:


https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...b9/t/576c2e495
a655be13f013aba/1467902699499/Scheimpflug.gif


I've seen that before but I don't think it qualifies as "photographing
a very tall wall from close up" as I originally specified.


it doesn't. that's the whole point.

scheimpflug is not needed for a tall building.


Depends on how close you are...
--
teleportation kills

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My first analog photos! Russell D. Digital Photography 0 May 29th 12 08:50 PM
My first analog photos! George Kerby Digital Photography 0 May 28th 12 07:47 PM
My first analog photos! Andrew Reilly[_2_] Digital Photography 1 May 28th 12 12:01 PM
Analog Black Dial [email protected] Digital SLR Cameras 0 May 21st 09 10:42 AM
Old Analog Meter: Any Value ?? Magnusfarce Digital Photography 14 July 3rd 07 06:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.