If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
On 7/31/2018 10:35 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On Jul 31, 2018, Neil wrote (in article ): On 7/30/2018 3:01 PM, Savageduck wrote: On Jul 30, 2018, Neil wrote (in article ): On 7/30/2018 10:21 AM, Savageduck wrote: If the Win10 update has screwed with PSE 15, the same issue with PSE 13 would not be unusual. Naturally MS will probably admit no fault, and expect Adobe to come up with a fix for their screw up. Then they will screw up something else with their next update. I think your analysis misses a major issue that has existed with apps since Windows 3.0. It is not at all uncommon for app developers to disregard MS specifications, even for Adobe apps. The result is that while an app may run on the current version of Windows, the next upgrade/update would cause it to become unreliable or fail completely. Another issue, though not relevant to this situation, is that some users who don't understand the changes that a newer Windows OS introduces try to run older apps on the newer OS and experience problems or failures. In either case, the problems are not caused by MS, but by those disregarding published requirements for the OS. That raises the question; why should developers have to chase their tails if they have delivered an app, any app, that conforms to current OS specs, only to have their app functions undermined by a fractional OS update? The problem that I described is that the apps *don't* conform to "current OS specs"... they may RUN on the current OS, but are not compliant with the published specs. I've seen this kind of problem created by code that ignores the specs and compilers that were out-of-date. That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every Win update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as Paul’s PSE 15 issue. It seems to me that PSE is the problem, since both the current and earlier version 13 failed in (presumably) the same way. While Paul might have a responsibility to have PSE updated to match the current incremental Win10 update, one should consider that it was an incremental, not a major Win10 update that seems to have broken both editions of PSE he uses. It is a presumption that I would not count on that a spec will only be implemented in a "major Win10 update". If the current version of PSE runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know about where the problem lies. Most developers plan and work on updates for their software in concert with Beta releases of OS updates/upgrades. That doesn't mean that they create compliant apps because Beta releases don't always incorporate all aspects that are in the OS specifications but the final release does. Developers have to stay "in step" by making sure their apps are compliant, and while many do, some don't, choosing not to fix the app until it's broken by a newer OS version. As I see it, the issue is that it's critical to stay compliant now that Win10 delivers new OS versions frequently and without user interaction. From the perspective of a macOS user it still looks like a uniquely Win10 issue. Fortunately for me Win10 is a non-issue, I have not used Windows of any vintage since I retired in 2009. That does not mean that I cannot appreciate Paul’s dilemma. Isn't the perspective of non-Windows users pretty irrelevant when addressing these kinds of issues? I'm speaking from decades of experience with Windows and all kinds of apps, including some Adobe apps, that have taught me to look into these issues from a fact-based perspective that included reading MS' published specs. I still follow these programming-related matters on a _daily_ basis. -- best regards, Neil |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
In article , Neil
wrote: That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every Win update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as Paul¹s PSE 15 issue. It seems to me that PSE is the problem, since both the current and earlier version 13 failed in (presumably) the same way. While Paul might have a responsibility to have PSE updated to match the current incremental Win10 update, one should consider that it was an incremental, not a major Win10 update that seems to have broken both editions of PSE he uses. It is a presumption that I would not count on that a spec will only be implemented in a "major Win10 update". If the current version of PSE runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know about where the problem lies. it says absolutely nothing. microsoft could have broken something in the update, such as what they did with anniversary update, and then fix it shortly after: https://lifehacker.com/windows-10-an...e-millions-of- webcams-1785545990 The Windows 10 Anniversary Update has reportedly broken millions of webcams. If your webcam has been affected, there¹s a workaround to get it back if you don¹t mind tweaking your registry a bit. or are you going to claim that millions of webcams were at fault because before anniversary update, they were working fine? more recently: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-10-windows-in stall/devices-with-certain-intel-ssds-may-enter-a-uefi/703ab5d8-d93e-432 1-b8cc-c70ce22ce2f1 Devices with Intel SSD 600p Series or Intel SSD Pro 6000p Series may crash and enter a UEFI screen after reboot when upgrading to Windows 10 April 2018 Update .... Update (6/22/18): Microsoft has included a solution for this issue in the May 23, 2018 Cumulative Update (KB4100403). This solution prevents the issue from occurring when installing the April 2018 Update. are you going to claim that intel ssds, a standard m.2 device, which were working fine before the update and made by the same company that makes the processors in most windows pcs (i.e, not some noname chinese crap), were non-compliant and at fault? in both cases (and many others), microsoft admitted they ****ed up and released a fix. microsoft's track record is not very good. sometimes (although not as much lately), they intentionally break things to force users to upgrade. From the perspective of a macOS user it still looks like a uniquely Win10 issue. Fortunately for me Win10 is a non-issue, I have not used Windows of any vintage since I retired in 2009. That does not mean that I cannot appreciate Paul¹s dilemma. Isn't the perspective of non-Windows users pretty irrelevant when addressing these kinds of issues? absolutely not. the very same issues apply to all platforms. I'm speaking from decades of experience with Windows and all kinds of apps, including some Adobe apps, that have taught me to look into these issues from a fact-based perspective that included reading MS' published specs. I still follow these programming-related matters on a _daily_ basis. lots of words that say nothing. you have absolutely no idea what the cause of this particular issue is and are just guessing. without crash logs, debugging tools, source code to the relevant parts and a solid understanding of how it all fits together (none of which you have), there's no way to know exactly what the cause is. rarely is it what it first appears to be and many times, not due to one single cause. even if a developer follows the specs to the letter, things can still break. nothing is 100% bug-free. i remember chris cox talking about how photoshop would crash on certain pcs while other apps worked fine and people were quick to blame adobe. it turned out to be buggy drivers and photoshop was the only app to push things hard enough to cause it to fail. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
On 7/31/2018 4:30 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil wrote: If the current version of PSE runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know about where the problem lies. it says absolutely nothing. microsoft could have broken something in the update, such as what they did with anniversary update, and then fix it shortly after: The CURRENT VERSION of PSE is Photoshop Elements 2018. IF IT RUNS on the OS without failing, it is OBVIOUS that versions 13 & 15 are non-compliant. It would be really good if you would learn to read before you comment. This will be my last response to your posts. -- best regards, Neil |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
In article , Neil
wrote: If the current version of PSE runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know about where the problem lies. it says absolutely nothing. microsoft could have broken something in the update, such as what they did with anniversary update, and then fix it shortly after: The CURRENT VERSION of PSE is Photoshop Elements 2018. IF IT RUNS on the OS without failing, it is OBVIOUS that versions 13 & 15 are non-compliant. nope. it doesn't work that way. It would be really good if you would learn to read before you comment. it would be really good if you understood something about software development before spouting. This will be my last response to your posts. of course it will, because you know you're full of ****. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:56:13 +0200, Paul Carmichael
wrote: On 30/07/18 14:49, Savageduck wrote: On Jul 30, 2018, Paul Carmichael wrote (in article ): Just went to use Elements 15 on this W10 Pro64 box and it just freezes. So does version13. Lightroom works just fine. Anybody else seen this? I used the program a few weeks ago. Tried to restore to a previous state but the operation fails (no reason given - good old MS). Have you recently updated Win10? If so, you might try a full reinstall of PSE 15. Completely removed and re-installed. Just as broken. Even the window controls are unresponsive, so very dead. Strange. PSE 12 runs OK on my Win 10 machine with the latest O/S updates |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:11:03 +0200, Paul Carmichael
wrote: On 01/08/18 16:05, Philip Statham wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:56:13 +0200, Paul Carmichael wrote: On 30/07/18 14:49, Savageduck wrote: On Jul 30, 2018, Paul Carmichael wrote (in article ): Just went to use Elements 15 on this W10 Pro64 box and it just freezes. So does version13. Lightroom works just fine. Anybody else seen this? I used the program a few weeks ago. Tried to restore to a previous state but the operation fails (no reason given - good old MS). Have you recently updated Win10? If so, you might try a full reinstall of PSE 15. Completely removed and re-installed. Just as broken. Even the window controls are unresponsive, so very dead. Strange. PSE 12 runs OK on my Win 10 machine with the latest O/S updates Mine has updated again this morning. Will it have re-applied the dodgy fix? Or maybe today's fix fixes the bug. PSE works today. One of life's little mysteries (:)) |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
On 30/07/2018 20:01, Savageduck wrote:
[] That raises the question; why should developers have to chase their tails if they have delivered an app, any app, that conforms to current OS specs, only to have their app functions undermined by a fractional OS update? That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every Win update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as Paul’s PSE 15 issue. Most developers plan and work on updates for their software in concert with Beta releases of OS updates/upgrades. But are Adobe conforming to current specs? How is it that hundreds of thousands of programs continue to work correctly, when only this one from Adobe appears not to? There are at least two beta levels beyond the current release (in multiple versions) readily available to developers to test their products, and I would be surprised if Adobe were not carrying out extensive testing, and that the present issue is just one of those unfortunate combination of several different things. I have seen instances where when memory becomes more fully used, only then does faulty memory become discovered! Drivers for older devices are a problem - how far back do you expect the manufacturer of the device to go? I don't see that as an MS issue, to be honest, more one for the device manufacturer. There must be plenty of cameras and cars requiring unobtainable parts which are now "beyond economic repair". On Apple's side, dropping support for 32-bit programs has resulted in me losing some iPad apps. -- Cheers, David Web: http://www.satsignal.eu |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?
In article , David Taylor
wrote: That raises the question; why should developers have to chase their tails if they have delivered an app, any app, that conforms to current OS specs, only to have their app functions undermined by a fractional OS update? That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every Win update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as Paul¹s PSE 15 issue. Most developers plan and work on updates for their software in concert with Beta releases of OS updates/upgrades. But are Adobe conforming to current specs? yes. it would be foolish not to, especially for a company as high profile as adobe. How is it that hundreds of thousands of programs continue to work correctly, when only this one from Adobe appears not to? because one or more apis that adobe uses which other apps do not changed in the update. microsoft updates tend to break things, and not just adobe. anniversary update broke web cams. 1803 broke many apps, including many of microsoft's own apps. how is it that microsoft doesn't 'conform to current specs', the specs *they* created? https://www.computerworld.com/articl...indows/win10-1 803-bugs-roll-in-chrome-freezes-skype-burps-alienware-craters-and-hey-co rtana.html Microsoft is aware that some devices running the Windows 10 April 2018 Update (version 1803) may hang or freeze when using certain apps, such as ³Hey Cortana² or Chrome. * .... It now appears as if the 1803 installer is assigning a new drive letter to the backup partition becauseŠ I dunno, it¹s Windows. .... Microsoft is currently blocking these models from installing the update due to a known incompatibility that may cause these devices to display a black screen after resuming from battery saver mode. There are at least two beta levels beyond the current release (in multiple versions) readily available to developers to test their products, and I would be surprised if Adobe were not carrying out extensive testing, and that the present issue is just one of those unfortunate combination of several different things. adobe has access to much more than what's available to normal developers. they work directly with microsoft and apple, including having both make changes specifically for adobe apps. I have seen instances where when memory becomes more fully used, only then does faulty memory become discovered! faulty memory has nothing to do with adobe or microsoft. Drivers for older devices are a problem - how far back do you expect the manufacturer of the device to go? I don't see that as an MS issue, to be honest, more one for the device manufacturer. There must be plenty of cameras and cars requiring unobtainable parts which are now "beyond economic repair". yep. 5 years is the legal cutoff for support, with 7 years in some places, including california. on the other hand, 3d printers may help with some of that. On Apple's side, dropping support for 32-bit programs has resulted in me losing some iPad apps. take that up with the developers of those apps, who have had *five* *years* to update them and chose not to. apple can't force a developer to update their apps, and nothing prevents another developer from writing a new 64 bit app, perhaps a much better one. moving to 64 bit benefits far more users than maintaining compatibility with abandoned apps. and it ain't just apple. android will soon require 64 bit apps. and let's not forget that microsoft suddenly dropped support without warning for windows mobile when they released windows phone 7. the 'upgrade' was to buy a new phone and new apps. and then, a year or two later, microsoft released windows phone 8 and obsoleted windows phone 7. there was a windows phone 7.8 release for some devices, but not all. many users were screwed not once, but twice in a couple of years. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
New D300 Probs | JimmyG[_2_] | Digital Photography | 10 | December 2nd 07 10:06 PM |
server probs again? | Paul Heslop | Digital Photography | 4 | February 11th 07 04:37 PM |
Any known probs with Eos 50Es? | [email protected] | 35mm Photo Equipment | 1 | February 1st 06 06:32 PM |
Sony V3 f8 probs | certsnsearches | Digital Photography | 1 | December 23rd 04 05:44 PM |
Sony fixed wb probs with PSC-100 and V-1 yet? | Scott | Digital Photography | 3 | July 30th 04 07:03 AM |