Nikon EN-EL14 battery

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:12:36 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Bill W
wrote:

but "better" does
not refer to quality, just the condition of the battery. As batteries
degrade over time, they will charge and discharge much more quickly,
and it's especially apparent as they near failure.

nope. if a 1000 mah battery only charges to 500 mah because it has
deteriorated, it's not fully charged. it's half charged.

the time to fully charge it is infinite, because it will never reach
1000 mah anymore.

claiming that a half-charged battery is fully charged is bull****.

This is just semantics. That specific batter is fully charged, even
though it has not, and will not, reach it's rated capacity.

no it isn't. it's partially charged.

It does,
however, reach it's actual capacity, and therefore the charger turns
off. When most people say fully charged, they mean the point at which
the charger shuts off.

nope. when people say fully charged, they mean it's rated capacity.
anything less than that is not a full charge.

You don't think this is a truly silly argument? "When people say"? Do
you speak for all people?

The charger gets to determine when it's fully
charged, and that's all anyone means. It's a handy bit of knowledge -
when your charger starts turning off sooner and sooner, it's time to
look into a new battery.

the better batteries communicate the battery capacity to the device.

the better chargers show the measured battery capacity so you know how
much it has degraded, even if the battery doesn't communicate it.

the not so good chargers just shut off when fully charged.

See? Even you say this. You know that you mean "fully charged" based
on its actual, not rated, capacity. It's how just about everyone
talks, and you can't possibly mean anything else by that sentence.

In article , Bill W
wrote:

It does,
however, reach it's actual capacity, and therefore the charger turns
off. When most people say fully charged, they mean the point at which
the charger shuts off.

nope. when people say fully charged, they mean it's rated capacity.
anything less than that is not a full charge.

You don't think this is a truly silly argument? "When people say"? Do
you speak for all people?

do you?

who in their right mind would call a 1000 mah battery that is charged
to 400 mah 'fully charged' ??

The charger gets to determine when it's fully
charged, and that's all anyone means. It's a handy bit of knowledge -
when your charger starts turning off sooner and sooner, it's time to
look into a new battery.

the better batteries communicate the battery capacity to the device.

the better chargers show the measured battery capacity so you know how
much it has degraded, even if the battery doesn't communicate it.

the not so good chargers just shut off when fully charged.

See? Even you say this. You know that you mean "fully charged" based
on its actual, not rated, capacity. It's how just about everyone
talks, and you can't possibly mean anything else by that sentence.

that's a twist. the charger shuts off because charging it further could
cause the battery to ignite.

it's 'full' in that it can't accept any more charge but it's not fully
charged.

you're playing word games.

normal people do not call a battery fully charged when it only has half
it's rated capacity and gives half its rated run time or half the
number of photos.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 09:46:39 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:30:57 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , philo
wrote:

I am not talking about a /defective/ battery, such as a shorted or open cell

a 1000 mah battery that can only hold 500 mah or whatever is a failing
battery.

it doesn't need to be a total failure to be considered defective.

merely a low capacity battery which now has a reduced ampere-hour

it will charge faster simply because there is not as much to charge
(to put it simply)

to put it simply, you're not fully charging it, which is why it's
faster.

obviously, half-charging a battery will take less time. no surprise
there.

what should also be obvious is that it's not fully charged, regardless
of the reason. calling it fully charged when it's only half-charged is
bull****.

It depends whether you assess start of charge by Q or V: Quantity of
electricity or Voltage at the terminals.

Oops! "state of charge".
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:01:22 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


I am not talking about a /defective/ battery, such as a shorted or open cell
merely a low capacity battery which now has a reduced ampere-hour
it will charge faster simply because there is not as much to charge
(to put it simply)

There are several ways of interpreting "it will charge faster".
Different people are interpreting "charge faster" differently.

I think what you mean is that 'it will be charged _sooner_'. The
charging rate will not be faster, it will be exactly the same.

exactly, and 'sooner' is only because it's being partially charged.

if you remove a 'new' battery when it's partially charged, it will take
the same amount of time.

calling a battery 'fully charged' when it's only charged to half its
rated capacity is simply bull****, regardless of the reason.

But if it has reached it's rated voltage that particular battery is
fully charged in that it will hold no more. People have to be careful
about how they define these terms before they start arguing about
them.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:36:13 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Bill W
wrote:

It does,
however, reach it's actual capacity, and therefore the charger turns
off. When most people say fully charged, they mean the point at which
the charger shuts off.

nope. when people say fully charged, they mean it's rated capacity.
anything less than that is not a full charge.

You don't think this is a truly silly argument? "When people say"? Do
you speak for all people?

do you?

who in their right mind would call a 1000 mah battery that is charged
to 400 mah 'fully charged' ??

The charger gets to determine when it's fully
charged, and that's all anyone means. It's a handy bit of knowledge -
when your charger starts turning off sooner and sooner, it's time to
look into a new battery.

the better batteries communicate the battery capacity to the device.

the better chargers show the measured battery capacity so you know how
much it has degraded, even if the battery doesn't communicate it.

the not so good chargers just shut off when fully charged.

See? Even you say this. You know that you mean "fully charged" based
on its actual, not rated, capacity. It's how just about everyone
talks, and you can't possibly mean anything else by that sentence.

that's a twist. the charger shuts off because charging it further could
cause the battery to ignite.

Why would it ignite? Because it's already fully charged?


it's 'full' in that it can't accept any more charge but it's not fully
charged.

Do you not see how silly that sounds?

you're playing word games.

*I* am?


normal people do not call a battery fully charged when it only has half
it's rated capacity and gives half its rated run time or half the
number of photos.

Look, you know as well as I know that "fully" can refer to either its
rated capacity, or its actual capacity. Pick one, but why argue about
it? But in context of the OP and the first response, we are clearly
supposed to be talking about the actual capacity. The OP was asking
about determining the health of a battery, and Philo's response was
correct, and helpful.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I am not talking about a /defective/ battery, such as a shorted or open
cell merely a low capacity battery which now has a reduced ampere-hour
it will charge faster simply because there is not as much to charge
(to put it simply)

There are several ways of interpreting "it will charge faster".
Different people are interpreting "charge faster" differently.

I think what you mean is that 'it will be charged _sooner_'. The
charging rate will not be faster, it will be exactly the same.

exactly, and 'sooner' is only because it's being partially charged.

if you remove a 'new' battery when it's partially charged, it will take
the same amount of time.

calling a battery 'fully charged' when it's only charged to half its
rated capacity is simply bull****, regardless of the reason.

But if it has reached it's rated voltage that particular battery is
fully charged in that it will hold no more.

but not to its rated capacity.

depending on the battery and charger, it might show that it's only 90%
or 80% or whatever. is that fully charged? nope.

other chargers might just blink the 'done' indicator, with no way of
knowing it's only at a partial capacity.

People have to be careful
about how they define these terms before they start arguing about
them.

yep. that's the whole problem.

claiming that a battery that is not at its rated capacity is fully
charged is bs.

In article , Bill W
wrote:

the better chargers show the measured battery capacity so you know how
much it has degraded, even if the battery doesn't communicate it.

the not so good chargers just shut off when fully charged.

See? Even you say this. You know that you mean "fully charged" based
on its actual, not rated, capacity. It's how just about everyone
talks, and you can't possibly mean anything else by that sentence.

that's a twist. the charger shuts off because charging it further could
cause the battery to ignite.

Why would it ignite? Because it's already fully charged?

if you continue charging a battery when it can't accept any more
charge, it can go boom, particularly with lithium ion batteries. that's
bad.

it's 'full' in that it can't accept any more charge but it's not fully
charged.

Do you not see how silly that sounds?

nope.

if you put sand in your gas tank so that 2 gallons 'fills' it, does it
have a full tank of gas? nope. it has a tank full of sand with a little
bit of gas.

a 1000 mah battery that is charged to 500 mah is not fully charged,
whether or not that's all it will hold or the user pulls it partway
through the charge cycle.

you're playing word games.

*I* am?

yes.

normal people do not call a battery fully charged when it only has half
it's rated capacity and gives half its rated run time or half the
number of photos.

Look, you know as well as I know that "fully" can refer to either its
rated capacity, or its actual capacity. Pick one, but why argue about
it? But in context of the OP and the first response, we are clearly
supposed to be talking about the actual capacity. The OP was asking
about determining the health of a battery, and Philo's response was
correct, and helpful.

no it wasn't. it was confusing to pretty much everyone.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:11:13 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I am not talking about a /defective/ battery, such as a shorted or open
cell merely a low capacity battery which now has a reduced ampere-hour
it will charge faster simply because there is not as much to charge
(to put it simply)

There are several ways of interpreting "it will charge faster".
Different people are interpreting "charge faster" differently.

I think what you mean is that 'it will be charged _sooner_'. The
charging rate will not be faster, it will be exactly the same.

exactly, and 'sooner' is only because it's being partially charged.

if you remove a 'new' battery when it's partially charged, it will take
the same amount of time.

calling a battery 'fully charged' when it's only charged to half its
rated capacity is simply bull****, regardless of the reason.

But if it has reached it's rated voltage that particular battery is
fully charged in that it will hold no more.

but not to its rated capacity.

Agreed, but they are two different things.

depending on the battery and charger, it might show that it's only 90%
or 80% or whatever. is that fully charged? nope.

other chargers might just blink the 'done' indicator, with no way of
knowing it's only at a partial capacity.

People have to be careful
about how they define these terms before they start arguing about
them.

yep. that's the whole problem.

claiming that a battery that is not at its rated capacity is fully
charged is bs.

It's a different way of describing the situation.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I am not talking about a /defective/ battery, such as a shorted or open
cell merely a low capacity battery which now has a reduced ampere-hour
it will charge faster simply because there is not as much to charge
(to put it simply)

There are several ways of interpreting "it will charge faster".
Different people are interpreting "charge faster" differently.

I think what you mean is that 'it will be charged _sooner_'. The
charging rate will not be faster, it will be exactly the same.

exactly, and 'sooner' is only because it's being partially charged.

if you remove a 'new' battery when it's partially charged, it will take
the same amount of time.

calling a battery 'fully charged' when it's only charged to half its
rated capacity is simply bull****, regardless of the reason.

But if it has reached it's rated voltage that particular battery is
fully charged in that it will hold no more.

but not to its rated capacity.

Agreed, but they are two different things.

depending on the battery and charger, it might show that it's only 90%
or 80% or whatever. is that fully charged? nope.

other chargers might just blink the 'done' indicator, with no way of
knowing it's only at a partial capacity.

People have to be careful
about how they define these terms before they start arguing about
them.

yep. that's the whole problem.

claiming that a battery that is not at its rated capacity is fully
charged is bs.

It's a different way of describing the situation.

yep.

On 02/25/2015 12:30 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , philo
wrote:

If an originally 1000 maH battery has been used a lot and it's capacity
is now down to 500maH it will indeed charge faster.

nope.

charging a 1000 mah battery to 500 mah is half-charged, regardless of
whether you voluntarily removed the battery from the charger when it
reached that that point or the battery has degraded so that it can't go
past that point.

it's half-charged. you don't get to call that fully charged.




You are 100% full of it (whatever "it" is)


A battery that was originally 1000 maH which now has a capacity of 50%
can of course be brought to full charge as defined by voltage...

All that's happened is the ampere-hour is reduced and thus will come to
full charge faster.


If the full charge voltage cannot be reached then the battery has a dead
cell and is defective. I am referring to a non-defective battery that is
simply low capacity due to being cycled numerous times...or in other
words normal wear and tear.


I've noticed that sometimes you give decent enough advice
but you ware way out of your league when it comes to your knowledge of
batteries. That's what I did for a living for 38 years.