Question for rangefinder users

"Bandicoot" wrote in message
t...
"Patrick L." wrote in message
...

"Peter Irwin" wrote in message
...
Patrick L. wrote:


How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a
tripod
or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor
sharp,
just usable).

If I'm well rested, 1/10th second with a Kiev rangefinder.
On a camera with modern speeds: 1/16th. with 50mm lens.

On candid shots taken with available light, subject motion
is nearly always a bigger problem than camera shake if you
have steady hands. Holding a camera really still while
pressing the shutter release is an art you can learn. I was
really rotten at it when I first got back into photography
three years ago. I practiced a lot and got quite a bit better.

Pictures of landscapes, room interiors and other inanimate
things look bad when they are even slightly unsharp while
pictures of people don't seem to be as critical especially
if the major source of unsharpness is their own motion.

If you are taking interior shots where tripods are not
allowed, you can often get away with holding a mini-tripod
against a wall.

Peter.
--





This is for weddiing ceremonies, where people are fairly stationary
(except
for the procession, and I will be using flash for that), where flash is
not
allowed after the ceremony begins.

I am asking this because I would like not to use a tripod, since they
are
a
PITA, in my opinion. I just bought a Canonet G III 17, which as
the
F/1.7 40mm lens. Also nice is that it has a leaf shutter, very quiet,
I'm
told. I can use it for outdoor fill flash with wide apertures, as
well.

and I'm hoping I can handhold this baby at 1/30 or 1/15 sec, this will
allow me to shoot in low light situations (on primarily stationary
subjects,
which is all I really need it for).

I can't see spending thousands on a Leica when I need this camera for a
very
specific application, and so, I'm hoping the $175 Canonet will serve
this
purpose.

I was using my Olympus E1 on a tripod, but moving around the church
with
a
tripod is such a drag.


Patrick


I'd be very surprised if you can't do acceptable shots at 1/30s - if
necessary, practice. 1/60s or even 1/125s is certainly a better 'target'
speed to eliminate (more or less) visible shake, but 1/30s should look
fine,
especially at the sort of maximum enlargements wedding pic.s will see.

I reckon on 1/30s being no problem, especially with a rangefinder with
leaf
shutter. 1/15s is usually OK, and so is 1/8s if I am careful and not
looking for much enlargement - no, I don't choose to do it, but if it is
that or no shot, I shoot away and know most of them will be fine.


Peter

If you can sit down, press your stomach against the edge of the table, rest
your elbows on the table, and press the camera against your forehead, then
you might even be able to get away with a tenth of a second or slower......

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...sort/1/cat/529

All the stats for this shot are with the image. This is hand held and
is typical of what I can get unbraced with a stable hold and a smooth
shutter release. As you can see, the people in motion are more of a
problem than camera shake.

Patrick L. wrote:
How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a tripod or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor sharp,
just usable).


Are there any samples on the net?


Patrick

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...sort/1/cat/529

All the stats for this shot are with the image. This is hand held and
is typical of what I can get unbraced with a stable hold and a smooth
shutter release. As you can see, the people in motion are more of a
problem than camera shake.

Patrick L. wrote:
How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a tripod or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor sharp,
just usable).


Are there any samples on the net?


Patrick

"Patrick L." wrote:

How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a tripod or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor sharp,
just usable).

I have been able to do 1/2 second shots without too much trouble. With an
SLR, the slowest usable hand held shots have been 1/4 second. Bracing the
camera on one plane of direction has allowed down to one second with either
type of camera, though I either prefire the mirror, or use mirror lock-up on
an SLR. These are not architecture shots, rather people or urban images.



Are there any samples on the net?

I have quite a few slow shutter shots on my web site (Portfolio area
mostly), and a few on other sites like http://www.bigtimeoperator.com. The
best thing I can tell you is that you need to be very relaxed, and very
loose to accomplish those shots. Too much coffee or stress leading into a
shoot, and forget anything below 1/30 second. It also takes quite a bit of
practice, and some technique.

I usually only do vertical shots at really slow shutter speeds, since those
allow for this unusual bracing method that I have developed. I am able to
brace the camera on my forehead, though I am not sure this would work for a
right eye dominant photographer.



Patrick

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!

"Patrick L." wrote:

How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a tripod or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor sharp,
just usable).

I have been able to do 1/2 second shots without too much trouble. With an
SLR, the slowest usable hand held shots have been 1/4 second. Bracing the
camera on one plane of direction has allowed down to one second with either
type of camera, though I either prefire the mirror, or use mirror lock-up on
an SLR. These are not architecture shots, rather people or urban images.



Are there any samples on the net?

I have quite a few slow shutter shots on my web site (Portfolio area
mostly), and a few on other sites like http://www.bigtimeoperator.com. The
best thing I can tell you is that you need to be very relaxed, and very
loose to accomplish those shots. Too much coffee or stress leading into a
shoot, and forget anything below 1/30 second. It also takes quite a bit of
practice, and some technique.

I usually only do vertical shots at really slow shutter speeds, since those
allow for this unusual bracing method that I have developed. I am able to
brace the camera on my forehead, though I am not sure this would work for a
right eye dominant photographer.



Patrick

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!

"Patrick L." wrote:

. . . . . . . . .

This is for weddiing ceremonies, where people are fairly stationary (except
for the procession, and I will be using flash for that), where flash is not
allowed after the ceremony begins.

I am asking this because I would like not to use a tripod, since they are a
PITA, in my opinion. I just bought a Canonet G III 17, which as the
F/1.7 40mm lens. Also nice is that it has a leaf shutter, very quiet, I'm
told. I can use it for outdoor fill flash with wide apertures, as well.

and I'm hoping I can handhold this baby at 1/30 or 1/15 sec, this will
allow me to shoot in low light situations (on primarily stationary subjects,
which is all I really need it for).


You should be able to get away with 1/8 second on some shots. Another trick is
to go to one second and pan, though maybe only a few of those shots might turn
out.


I can't see spending thousands on a Leica when I need this camera for a very
specific application, and so, I'm hoping the $175 Canonet will serve this
purpose.

Actually, there is a slow shutter advantage with the leaf shutter over using
the Leica. The Leica focal plane shutter might actually be more likely to cause
movement than a leaf shutter rangefinder, though it does depend upon the
photographer, and the technique used.



I was using my Olympus E1 on a tripod, but moving around the church with a
tripod is such a drag.

Patrick

Have you tried a mini pod, or a clamp pod?

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!

"Patrick L." wrote:

. . . . . . . . .

This is for weddiing ceremonies, where people are fairly stationary (except
for the procession, and I will be using flash for that), where flash is not
allowed after the ceremony begins.

I am asking this because I would like not to use a tripod, since they are a
PITA, in my opinion. I just bought a Canonet G III 17, which as the
F/1.7 40mm lens. Also nice is that it has a leaf shutter, very quiet, I'm
told. I can use it for outdoor fill flash with wide apertures, as well.

and I'm hoping I can handhold this baby at 1/30 or 1/15 sec, this will
allow me to shoot in low light situations (on primarily stationary subjects,
which is all I really need it for).


You should be able to get away with 1/8 second on some shots. Another trick is
to go to one second and pan, though maybe only a few of those shots might turn
out.


I can't see spending thousands on a Leica when I need this camera for a very
specific application, and so, I'm hoping the $175 Canonet will serve this
purpose.

Actually, there is a slow shutter advantage with the leaf shutter over using
the Leica. The Leica focal plane shutter might actually be more likely to cause
movement than a leaf shutter rangefinder, though it does depend upon the
photographer, and the technique used.



I was using my Olympus E1 on a tripod, but moving around the church with a
tripod is such a drag.

Patrick

Have you tried a mini pod, or a clamp pod?

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!

"columbotrek" wrote in message
...

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...sort/1/cat/529

All the stats for this shot are with the image. This is hand held and
is typical of what I can get unbraced with a stable hold and a smooth
shutter release. As you can see, the people in motion are more of a
problem than camera shake.

Patrick L. wrote:
How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a tripod
or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor sharp,
just usable).


Are there any samples on the net?


Patrick






I like that Santa Barbara Mission shot. I couldn't get that kind of
dynamic range with my digital. I spent quite a few years of my youth in
Santa Barbara.



Patrick

"Patrick L." wrote in message
...


How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a tripod or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor sharp,
just usable).

Are there any samples on the net?

Patrick

When I did weddings, I did everything possible to add weight. Very heavy
flash and the heaviest monopod Bogen made. A leaf shutter is your best
friend. Shooting inside with no monopod, w/ a slow portrait film and the
shutter at 1/125 or 1/250, the available lite image won't come out at all,
just the flash image. Shooting outdoors, the monopod steadied it. Just
don't fall into the fast film trap, or you'll start to get double images.
Just make sure you bracket a test roll, as many flashes are over-rated. What
ever you do, don't use the meter. If you set the flash @ ASA 100 and it says
up to 20 ft @ f5.6; that's it, leave it at 5.6. And don't focus on the fly.
Focus on the door and tell the couples to stand there. If you don't move,
every shot will be framed the same, one couple at a time. If you get a
yellow magic marker, and scribble all over the flash lens, they'll come out
warmer and not so "flash blue". Good luck.
Bob Hickey

"Patrick L." wrote in message
...


How slow of a shutter speed have you been able to use without a tripod or
monopod, and still get a viable shot? (Doesn't have to be razor sharp,
just usable).

Are there any samples on the net?

Patrick

When I did weddings, I did everything possible to add weight. Very heavy
flash and the heaviest monopod Bogen made. A leaf shutter is your best
friend. Shooting inside with no monopod, w/ a slow portrait film and the
shutter at 1/125 or 1/250, the available lite image won't come out at all,
just the flash image. Shooting outdoors, the monopod steadied it. Just
don't fall into the fast film trap, or you'll start to get double images.
Just make sure you bracket a test roll, as many flashes are over-rated. What
ever you do, don't use the meter. If you set the flash @ ASA 100 and it says
up to 20 ft @ f5.6; that's it, leave it at 5.6. And don't focus on the fly.
Focus on the door and tell the couples to stand there. If you don't move,
every shot will be framed the same, one couple at a time. If you get a
yellow magic marker, and scribble all over the flash lens, they'll come out
warmer and not so "flash blue". Good luck.
Bob Hickey