Good deals on ebay?

Hey all,

It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
doing some research before purchasing that or something else.

There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2
GB flash drive, etc., etc.

A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
dealer.

So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
lens for around $1500.

Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
warranty?

Thanks,
Mike

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:19:51 -0600, Robert Bobb wrote:

A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
equipment and not gray market.

I wouldn't necessarily just take their word for it. But I don't
know how they could prove it in advance, either.

So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
lens for around $1500.

I got mine at newegg.com; oddly, newegg's price has gone *up* since then,
to the same as Adorama's.

Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
warranty?

It means that the item was not imported by Canon's USA distributor.
Sometimes these are referred to as "parallel imports".

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall

Robert Bobb wrote:
Hey all,

It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
doing some research before purchasing that or something else.

There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2
GB flash drive, etc., etc.

A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
dealer.

So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
lens for around $1500.

Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
warranty?

Thanks,
Mike

Consider this:

When buying through e-Bay, a seller may over state what is being
auctioned and upon delivery you find that the item is not quite what you
expected, you're at the mercy of the seller who will make the
determination if you are to send it back for a refund or the item is now
yours to keep.

You may elect to make a negative entry as a warning to others, in the
sellers folder, which the seller will respond to, but people will ignore
the negative entry, or warning, and deal with the seller anyway. I think
the common assumption is, that guy has been had but it won't happen to
me. If ego had a commercial value, we would all be rich.

If you've been had, e-Bay will not intercede. You will have the option,
for a fee, to have a mediator try to get both parties to talk but if the
seller refuses, nothing will come of the mediators actions but you still
have to pay a fee to the mediator.

I have friends who have been had and through what I know of their
experiences, I would advise you to deal with reputable establishments.
From what I have been told, the seller has the advantage over the
buyer, it's pay first before you get the item. To possibly reverse the
advantage, the buyer will need the services of an attorney.

There are sellers who will allow a buyer to return an item if the buyer
is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO, I would
advise dealing with reputable establishments.

Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is
an authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well
as a Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified).
Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.

I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have been.

There's a several hundred dollar difference between those packages on
ebay and what I would pay if I'd buy it all piece-meal through a local
retailer, which is nothing to sneeze at.

nick c wrote:
There are sellers who will allow a buyer to return an item if the buyer
is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO, I would
advise dealing with reputable establishments.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:18:09 -0600, Robert Bobb wrote:
Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is
an authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well
as a Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified).
Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.

I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have been.

I've spent a fair bit of money on eBay on this and that -- though
never photo equipment, so far.

I look for sellers who not only have good ratings, but who have sold
similar items in the past. This is to avoid scammers who sell lots
of little things, rack up some good ratings, and then pull a scam
with a big-ticket item.

I've never been burned. So I think that if you do your homework and
avoid "too good to be true" deals, you can do very well on eBay.

Good luck.

Regards,

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall

"Robert Bobb" wrote in message
...
Hey all,

It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
doing some research before purchasing that or something else.

There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2 GB
flash drive, etc., etc.

A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
dealer.

So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
lens for around $1500.

Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
warranty?

Thanks,
Mike

I've never been burned on eBay, but I got my camera at Circuit City. It was
on sale, and with the rebate from Nikon I got a damn good deal (haven't
received the rebate yet).

What sometimes happens on eBay, and some sellers you see in the back of some
computer and camera magazines, is that the seller will take the box the
product comes in and sell each piece individually. You get exactly what was
advertised, but without the extras the manufacturer included with the
package. That will cost you extra.

They also put together packages that seem too good to be true, by combining
off-brand lenses with the camera body, making it look as though you are
getting a real bargain. Unfortunately, the quality of the lenses included
don't come close to the real thing.

Gray market cameras and lenses are simply cameras that were not meant to be
sold in the US. Often you get no warranty with the camera or lens, and you
are on your own if something goes wrong. Now, this isn't always the case.
B&H does sell gray market products, labels them clearly and offers a reduced
warranty on the item. I would trust B&H to back up anything they sell, to
the limit of the warranty offered.

I think you just have to read the fine print carefully when buying on eBay,
and look hard at the sellers feedback. You just have to assume that most
people are honest, but still be on your toes.

Robert Bobb wrote:
Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is
an authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well
as a Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified).
Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.

I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have
been.
There's a several hundred dollar difference between those packages on
ebay and what I would pay if I'd buy it all piece-meal through a local
retailer, which is nothing to sneeze at.

nick c wrote:
There are sellers who will allow a buyer to return an item if the
buyer is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO,
I would advise dealing with reputable establishments.

I have left feedback in more than 1,400 eBay transactions, decided
against it in a dozen more. I think I lost money in fewer than ten.
Losses were due almost exclusively to my failure to read before
clicking. Total loss would be less than a hundred dollars, but the pain
was from feeling the fool. Total expenditures over six years, close to
thirty thousand dollars, two thousand of that on photo equipment in the
past three months.

The useful techniques are common sense: buy with intellect, not emotion;
keep your eyes open and your purse closed unless you are certain; don't
hesitate to ask questions of the sellers; bid only when all the terms
are satisfactory to you; recognize the likelihood of loss, but don't
obsess over it; remember you are pretty much on your own (eBay and
PayPal and your credit card company might render assistance, but don't
count on it); always give the benefit of the doubt (late deliveries are
probably oversights, not wilful - I sent an email "I hope I gave you the
right address, my item hasn't arrived yet" or some such on the few
occasions it was necessary )(like last week - he said PayPal failed to
notify him of a payment I sent, but he has the responsibility to monitor
that); if you have questions about anything eBay, the answers can be
found in the knowledge of the denizens of alt.marketing.online.ebay.

Never, ever, pay for anything by Western Union, the scammers' greatest
ally.

You will find feedback ratings are useful, and you may want to evaluate
them with this in mind: 97% positive sounds pretty good, until you
notice that means your chances of experiencing a transaction that makes
you want to give a negative is three in a hundred. There is almost
certainly another seller of the same item who has 100% positive
feedback. Of course if you are like me and you set your sights on that
stuffed naked mole rat, you're sure there is none other like it, you'll
throw caution (and money) to the winds.

Back in the day people didn't know the value of many of the
clean-the-closet items they put up for bid. Over time almost all values
have become known to anyone who really wants to know them. The
transition has reached the point where a majority of offers on eBay are
just like the ones at your neighborhood sto the difference is
probably in convenience, not price or uniqueness. It's a rare occurrence
when a genuine bargain is available on eBay and nowhere else. As opposed
to the way it used to be, when you could keep a sharp eye out and make a
genuine "find" on the basis of your alertness and knowledge. That kind
of thing is remotely possible, but usually more trouble than it is
worth, these days.

Any road, it's a challenge, and can be fun and rewarding. Don't let it
scare you, but don't let it roll over you, either.


--
Frank ess


--
Frank ess

Check out Amazon.com for deals also. Not an auction site as all deals are
"buy now".
Amazon will re-imburse you if you get robbed by a crook, with some
limitations. 3 refunds per lifetime.
Check the site for details. You still need to check feedback before buying
and read the item description carefully.
Watch for "representative pictures" and "stock photos" which are NOT of the
actual item that you are buying.
Be aware that pictured items are usually NOT included unless specifically
stated in the description.
Finally, watch for predatory shipping, handling and insurance charges. I
have seen the same camera shipped for $16 from one source and $75 from
another!
Check for best prices and vendor ratings on www.resellerratings.com . There
are a lot of very reputable vendors and a few real crooks brought under the
spotlight there. Look at the total number of lifetime ratings when you are
checking vendors. Some vendors will have a few "schills" try to pump up
their ratings. Vendors with hundreds of favorable ratings over several years
are probably worth a few dollars more, just for peace of mind.
Good luck...

"Robert Bobb" wrote in message
...
Hey all,

It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
doing some research before purchasing that or something else.

There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2
GB flash drive, etc., etc.

A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
dealer.

So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
lens for around $1500.

Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
warranty?

Thanks,
Mike

"Robert Bobb" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is
an authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well
as a Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified).
Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.

I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have
been.

There's a several hundred dollar difference between those packages on
ebay and what I would pay if I'd buy it all piece-meal through a local
retailer, which is nothing to sneeze at.

nick c wrote:
There are sellers who will allow a buyer to return an item if the buyer
is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO, I would
advise dealing with reputable establishments.

Only new item I bought from Ebay was a cheesy zoom I bought for my brother
from Cameta Camera. They do have a pretty good rep. The lens I got was not
available anywhere else. I got what I ordered, and it was as described.
Other than that, I would not buy new from EBay. I do buy used equipment
there however.

If you actually research the prices for what you're getting, you almost
always buy cheaper from a regular dealer. For instance, Cameta is selling a
20d kit (18-55) with a 1GB Lexar card a few other cheapy items for $1599 on
EBay. Adorama sells the same kit for $1429. I doubt the flash card, a small
case and card reader are worth $170. I know you can get the flash for under
$100. At best, your not saving anything, and you have to screw with EBay.
Not really worth it.

What about just using an escrow service? What are the downsides besides
the cost? Is it relatively foolproof?