Selenium, KRST ?

Hello,
Where I live there's no KRST and shipping charges make it impractical to
mail order it.

Is there some formula that would give similar results - namelly deeper
blacks?

Thanks,

Jorge

Jorge Omar wrote:
Hello, Where I live there's no KRST and shipping charges make it
impractical to mail order it.

Is there some formula that would give similar results - namelly deeper
blacks?

That is easy. Expose your film more so that the Zone V of the subject
comes out to a net density of about 0.9, instead of the 0.75 sometimes
recommended by Ansel Adams, while continuing to develop to the contrast
index you require. I.e., if you are now getting the right contrast,
develop for the same amount of time. This is normally one stop more
exposure than you presently use. If you test the film, the Zone I exposure
will no longer be around 0.1 net density, but between 0.25 and 0.3. Just
live with that.

Negatives developped like that will require more exposure when enlarging
(or contact printing) than the ones you have now, which will get the
blacks blacker while leaving everything else about the same. You will also
get somewhat more shadow detail if your paper is capable of it, though you
may need to illuminate them better than most people do in their living
rooms to really see it.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 14:15:00 up 6 days, 23:16, 4 users, load average: 0.12, 0.11, 0.09

Jorge Omar wrote:
Hello, Where I live there's no KRST and shipping charges make it
impractical to mail order it.

Is there some formula that would give similar results - namelly deeper
blacks?

That is easy. Expose your film more so that the Zone V of the subject
comes out to a net density of about 0.9, instead of the 0.75 sometimes
recommended by Ansel Adams, while continuing to develop to the contrast
index you require. I.e., if you are now getting the right contrast,
develop for the same amount of time. This is normally one stop more
exposure than you presently use. If you test the film, the Zone I exposure
will no longer be around 0.1 net density, but between 0.25 and 0.3. Just
live with that.

Negatives developped like that will require more exposure when enlarging
(or contact printing) than the ones you have now, which will get the
blacks blacker while leaving everything else about the same. You will also
get somewhat more shadow detail if your paper is capable of it, though you
may need to illuminate them better than most people do in their living
rooms to really see it.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 14:15:00 up 6 days, 23:16, 4 users, load average: 0.12, 0.11, 0.09

Jorge Omar wrote:
Hello, Where I live there's no KRST and shipping charges make it
impractical to mail order it.

Is there some formula that would give similar results - namelly deeper
blacks?

That is easy. Expose your film more so that the Zone V of the subject
comes out to a net density of about 0.9, instead of the 0.75 sometimes
recommended by Ansel Adams, while continuing to develop to the contrast
index you require. I.e., if you are now getting the right contrast,
develop for the same amount of time. This is normally one stop more
exposure than you presently use. If you test the film, the Zone I exposure
will no longer be around 0.1 net density, but between 0.25 and 0.3. Just
live with that.

Negatives developped like that will require more exposure when enlarging
(or contact printing) than the ones you have now, which will get the
blacks blacker while leaving everything else about the same. You will also
get somewhat more shadow detail if your paper is capable of it, though you
may need to illuminate them better than most people do in their living
rooms to really see it.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 14:15:00 up 6 days, 23:16, 4 users, load average: 0.12, 0.11, 0.09

"Jorge Omar" wrote in message
...
Hello,
Where I live there's no KRST and shipping charges make it
impractical to
mail order it.

Is there some formula that would give similar results -
namelly deeper
blacks?

Thanks,

Jorge
What prepared toners can you get where you are?
There are formulas for Selenium toner but they are of a
different type than KRST. Elmental Selenium is medium
hazardous so, if KRST is too expensive to ship the
ingredients for home brew Selenium toner probably will be
too.
Gold toners are also intensifiers and yield very good
image protection. Their drawback is the cost of the Gold
Chloride.
Kodak In-5 is a Silver intensifier that gives neutral
images and is suitable for use on printing paper. The only
unusual ingredient is Silver Nitrate. I've not tried this on
paper so can't vouch for it.
Generally, the Dmax of printing paper is greater than is
useable in a reflection print. If you look at a good print
by _transmitted_ light you can usually see detail in the
shadows that look uniformly dark by reflected light. If your
prints look grayed down or low contrast there may be a
problem with either the negatives or the printing process.
Low contrast prints can be caused by a number of things
including poor lenses and exhausted developer. Also choice
of paper grade makes a large difference.
Matte surface paper is not capable of the full Dmax of
the emulsion due to light scattering at the surface. The
darkest blacks are from glazed glossy fiber or glossy RC
prints. This also affects the contrast since textured papers
are not capable of the contrast range of a glossy print for
the same reason, namely the surface scattering limits the
density of the blacks.

Agfa 231 Gold Toner

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml
Ammonium thiocyanate 105.0 grams
or
Sodium thiocyanate 110.0 grams
or
Potassium thiocyanate 135.0 grams
Gold Chloride, 1% solution 60.0 ml
Water to make 1.0 liter

Prints to be toned should be treated in a sulfite wash aid
and well washed.
The color of the image depeneds on the paper. Neutral or
cold toned paper will be intensified with little or no color
change. Warm toned paper will tend toward a blue color. The
Blue produced by this toner is never as vivid as the Blue
from Iron toner but the images are permanent.
If this toner is used on a print previously toned with a
sulfiding sepia toner it produces brick red images.

Kodak In-5 Siler Intensifier

Stock Solution No.1
Silver Nitrate, crystals 60.0 grams
Distilled water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.2
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 60.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.3
Sodium Thiosulfate, crystals 105.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.4
Metol 15.0 grams
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 24.0 grams
Water to make 3.0 liters

For use slowly add 1 part of Soluton No.2 to 1 part solution
No.1 shaking or stirring to abtain thorough mixing. The
white precipitate which appears is then dissolved by the
addition of 1 part of Solution No.3. Allow the resulting
solution to stand a few minutes until clear. Then add,
with stirring, 3 parts of Solution NO.4. The intensifier is
then ready for use and the film should be treated
immediately The mixed internsifier solutino is stable for
approaimately 30minutes at 70F (21C).
After intensification immerse the film for 2 mintues with
agitation in a plain 30% hypo solution and wash thoroughly.

I know this will work for prints but have not tried it
myself.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Jorge Omar" wrote in message
...
Hello,
Where I live there's no KRST and shipping charges make it
impractical to
mail order it.

Is there some formula that would give similar results -
namelly deeper
blacks?

Thanks,

Jorge
What prepared toners can you get where you are?
There are formulas for Selenium toner but they are of a
different type than KRST. Elmental Selenium is medium
hazardous so, if KRST is too expensive to ship the
ingredients for home brew Selenium toner probably will be
too.
Gold toners are also intensifiers and yield very good
image protection. Their drawback is the cost of the Gold
Chloride.
Kodak In-5 is a Silver intensifier that gives neutral
images and is suitable for use on printing paper. The only
unusual ingredient is Silver Nitrate. I've not tried this on
paper so can't vouch for it.
Generally, the Dmax of printing paper is greater than is
useable in a reflection print. If you look at a good print
by _transmitted_ light you can usually see detail in the
shadows that look uniformly dark by reflected light. If your
prints look grayed down or low contrast there may be a
problem with either the negatives or the printing process.
Low contrast prints can be caused by a number of things
including poor lenses and exhausted developer. Also choice
of paper grade makes a large difference.
Matte surface paper is not capable of the full Dmax of
the emulsion due to light scattering at the surface. The
darkest blacks are from glazed glossy fiber or glossy RC
prints. This also affects the contrast since textured papers
are not capable of the contrast range of a glossy print for
the same reason, namely the surface scattering limits the
density of the blacks.

Agfa 231 Gold Toner

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml
Ammonium thiocyanate 105.0 grams
or
Sodium thiocyanate 110.0 grams
or
Potassium thiocyanate 135.0 grams
Gold Chloride, 1% solution 60.0 ml
Water to make 1.0 liter

Prints to be toned should be treated in a sulfite wash aid
and well washed.
The color of the image depeneds on the paper. Neutral or
cold toned paper will be intensified with little or no color
change. Warm toned paper will tend toward a blue color. The
Blue produced by this toner is never as vivid as the Blue
from Iron toner but the images are permanent.
If this toner is used on a print previously toned with a
sulfiding sepia toner it produces brick red images.

Kodak In-5 Siler Intensifier

Stock Solution No.1
Silver Nitrate, crystals 60.0 grams
Distilled water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.2
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 60.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.3
Sodium Thiosulfate, crystals 105.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.4
Metol 15.0 grams
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 24.0 grams
Water to make 3.0 liters

For use slowly add 1 part of Soluton No.2 to 1 part solution
No.1 shaking or stirring to abtain thorough mixing. The
white precipitate which appears is then dissolved by the
addition of 1 part of Solution No.3. Allow the resulting
solution to stand a few minutes until clear. Then add,
with stirring, 3 parts of Solution NO.4. The intensifier is
then ready for use and the film should be treated
immediately The mixed internsifier solutino is stable for
approaimately 30minutes at 70F (21C).
After intensification immerse the film for 2 mintues with
agitation in a plain 30% hypo solution and wash thoroughly.

I know this will work for prints but have not tried it
myself.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

After I posted, I've found out that I can mail order locally a selenium
toner made by Fotospeed, England. Seems to be equivalent to KRST (MDSS's
are about the same).

The reason for the question isn't that my prints do not have black tones
- I use Ilford and Kodak glossy RC developed in a slightly modified ID-62
(no bromide, more benzo) and there are blacks, for sure.

I've made maximum black tests and I can see when a print has just dark
grays, and most times it can be corrected (more exposure, long dev times,
paper grade)

It's just that I've seen many posts stating that KRST turn blacks even
blacker and I would like to try it.

Thanks a lot,

Jorge


"Richard Knoppow" wrote in news:2n86a3Ft15cjU1
@uni-berlin.de:

What prepared toners can you get where you are?
There are formulas for Selenium toner but they are of a
different type than KRST. Elmental Selenium is medium
hazardous so, if KRST is too expensive to ship the
ingredients for home brew Selenium toner probably will be
too.
Gold toners are also intensifiers and yield very good
image protection. Their drawback is the cost of the Gold
Chloride.
Kodak In-5 is a Silver intensifier that gives neutral
images and is suitable for use on printing paper. The only
unusual ingredient is Silver Nitrate. I've not tried this on
paper so can't vouch for it.
Generally, the Dmax of printing paper is greater than is
useable in a reflection print. If you look at a good print
by _transmitted_ light you can usually see detail in the
shadows that look uniformly dark by reflected light. If your
prints look grayed down or low contrast there may be a
problem with either the negatives or the printing process.
Low contrast prints can be caused by a number of things
including poor lenses and exhausted developer. Also choice
of paper grade makes a large difference.
Matte surface paper is not capable of the full Dmax of
the emulsion due to light scattering at the surface. The
darkest blacks are from glazed glossy fiber or glossy RC
prints. This also affects the contrast since textured papers
are not capable of the contrast range of a glossy print for
the same reason, namely the surface scattering limits the
density of the blacks.

Agfa 231 Gold Toner

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml
Ammonium thiocyanate 105.0 grams
or
Sodium thiocyanate 110.0 grams
or
Potassium thiocyanate 135.0 grams
Gold Chloride, 1% solution 60.0 ml
Water to make 1.0 liter

Prints to be toned should be treated in a sulfite wash aid
and well washed.
The color of the image depeneds on the paper. Neutral or
cold toned paper will be intensified with little or no color
change. Warm toned paper will tend toward a blue color. The
Blue produced by this toner is never as vivid as the Blue
from Iron toner but the images are permanent.
If this toner is used on a print previously toned with a
sulfiding sepia toner it produces brick red images.

Kodak In-5 Siler Intensifier

Stock Solution No.1
Silver Nitrate, crystals 60.0 grams
Distilled water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.2
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 60.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.3
Sodium Thiosulfate, crystals 105.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.4
Metol 15.0 grams
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 24.0 grams
Water to make 3.0 liters

For use slowly add 1 part of Soluton No.2 to 1 part solution
No.1 shaking or stirring to abtain thorough mixing. The
white precipitate which appears is then dissolved by the
addition of 1 part of Solution No.3. Allow the resulting
solution to stand a few minutes until clear. Then add,
with stirring, 3 parts of Solution NO.4. The intensifier is
then ready for use and the film should be treated
immediately The mixed internsifier solutino is stable for
approaimately 30minutes at 70F (21C).
After intensification immerse the film for 2 mintues with
agitation in a plain 30% hypo solution and wash thoroughly.

I know this will work for prints but have not tried it
myself.

After I posted, I've found out that I can mail order locally a selenium
toner made by Fotospeed, England. Seems to be equivalent to KRST (MDSS's
are about the same).

The reason for the question isn't that my prints do not have black tones
- I use Ilford and Kodak glossy RC developed in a slightly modified ID-62
(no bromide, more benzo) and there are blacks, for sure.

I've made maximum black tests and I can see when a print has just dark
grays, and most times it can be corrected (more exposure, long dev times,
paper grade)

It's just that I've seen many posts stating that KRST turn blacks even
blacker and I would like to try it.

Thanks a lot,

Jorge


"Richard Knoppow" wrote in news:2n86a3Ft15cjU1
@uni-berlin.de:

What prepared toners can you get where you are?
There are formulas for Selenium toner but they are of a
different type than KRST. Elmental Selenium is medium
hazardous so, if KRST is too expensive to ship the
ingredients for home brew Selenium toner probably will be
too.
Gold toners are also intensifiers and yield very good
image protection. Their drawback is the cost of the Gold
Chloride.
Kodak In-5 is a Silver intensifier that gives neutral
images and is suitable for use on printing paper. The only
unusual ingredient is Silver Nitrate. I've not tried this on
paper so can't vouch for it.
Generally, the Dmax of printing paper is greater than is
useable in a reflection print. If you look at a good print
by _transmitted_ light you can usually see detail in the
shadows that look uniformly dark by reflected light. If your
prints look grayed down or low contrast there may be a
problem with either the negatives or the printing process.
Low contrast prints can be caused by a number of things
including poor lenses and exhausted developer. Also choice
of paper grade makes a large difference.
Matte surface paper is not capable of the full Dmax of
the emulsion due to light scattering at the surface. The
darkest blacks are from glazed glossy fiber or glossy RC
prints. This also affects the contrast since textured papers
are not capable of the contrast range of a glossy print for
the same reason, namely the surface scattering limits the
density of the blacks.

Agfa 231 Gold Toner

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml
Ammonium thiocyanate 105.0 grams
or
Sodium thiocyanate 110.0 grams
or
Potassium thiocyanate 135.0 grams
Gold Chloride, 1% solution 60.0 ml
Water to make 1.0 liter

Prints to be toned should be treated in a sulfite wash aid
and well washed.
The color of the image depeneds on the paper. Neutral or
cold toned paper will be intensified with little or no color
change. Warm toned paper will tend toward a blue color. The
Blue produced by this toner is never as vivid as the Blue
from Iron toner but the images are permanent.
If this toner is used on a print previously toned with a
sulfiding sepia toner it produces brick red images.

Kodak In-5 Siler Intensifier

Stock Solution No.1
Silver Nitrate, crystals 60.0 grams
Distilled water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.2
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 60.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.3
Sodium Thiosulfate, crystals 105.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

Stock Solution No.4
Metol 15.0 grams
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 24.0 grams
Water to make 3.0 liters

For use slowly add 1 part of Soluton No.2 to 1 part solution
No.1 shaking or stirring to abtain thorough mixing. The
white precipitate which appears is then dissolved by the
addition of 1 part of Solution No.3. Allow the resulting
solution to stand a few minutes until clear. Then add,
with stirring, 3 parts of Solution NO.4. The intensifier is
then ready for use and the film should be treated
immediately The mixed internsifier solutino is stable for
approaimately 30minutes at 70F (21C).
After intensification immerse the film for 2 mintues with
agitation in a plain 30% hypo solution and wash thoroughly.

I know this will work for prints but have not tried it
myself.

"Jorge Omar" wrote in message
...
After I posted, I've found out that I can mail order
locally a selenium
toner made by Fotospeed, England. Seems to be equivalent
to KRST (MDSS's
are about the same).

The reason for the question isn't that my prints do not
have black tones
- I use Ilford and Kodak glossy RC developed in a slightly
modified ID-62
(no bromide, more benzo) and there are blacks, for sure.

I've made maximum black tests and I can see when a print
has just dark
grays, and most times it can be corrected (more exposure,
long dev times,
paper grade)

It's just that I've seen many posts stating that KRST turn
blacks even
blacker and I would like to try it.

Thanks a lot,

Jorge

My long post snipped. I forgot about the Photospeed
stuff, from all reports its either identical to KRST or
close enough. Selenium toner is an intensifier, it can be
used on negatives with good result if only a moderate amount
of intensification is needed. I use KRST frequently, It does
darken the prints. In fact, if you fully tone prints you may
want to adjust them a little or they may become too dark.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Jorge Omar" wrote in message
...
After I posted, I've found out that I can mail order
locally a selenium
toner made by Fotospeed, England. Seems to be equivalent
to KRST (MDSS's
are about the same).

The reason for the question isn't that my prints do not
have black tones
- I use Ilford and Kodak glossy RC developed in a slightly
modified ID-62
(no bromide, more benzo) and there are blacks, for sure.

I've made maximum black tests and I can see when a print
has just dark
grays, and most times it can be corrected (more exposure,
long dev times,
paper grade)

It's just that I've seen many posts stating that KRST turn
blacks even
blacker and I would like to try it.

Thanks a lot,

Jorge

My long post snipped. I forgot about the Photospeed
stuff, from all reports its either identical to KRST or
close enough. Selenium toner is an intensifier, it can be
used on negatives with good result if only a moderate amount
of intensification is needed. I use KRST frequently, It does
darken the prints. In fact, if you fully tone prints you may
want to adjust them a little or they may become too dark.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA