long-time Nikon F2AS user -- which SRL digital is best?

Apteryx wrote:
"maya" wrote in message
. com...
tomm42 wrote:
Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It
has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too,
but they have to be Ai or AiS, they have "feet" on the aperture ring.
An older non Ai Nikkor can damage the camera's aperture connection to
the lens. Older lenses can be converted.
Focusing with a WA is a bit of a pain with these cameras, I use a 24
f2 with a D200, with a 105 micro I'm fine. The other problem you will
run into is that the sensor is smaller, so your lenses act similar to
lenses 1.5 their focal length. A 24 becomes a 36mm, a 17mm = 25mm.
Takes a little getting used to, all Nikons DSLRs have this. I have 4
lenses 3 primes, a 17mm Tokina, a nice lens, the 24 f2 Nikon, a 55
micro, and a 70-210 f4 zoom, the set isn't perfect but works for me
and cost less than a grand. If you want to use zooms, somehow they go
with digital, the 18-70 Nikkor kit lens is good, but may not be wide
enough for you, the 17-55, and the 17-35, the latter could be used on
your F2, are excellent lenses with fairly high price tags. For wide
angle lenses there are 12-24 Nikon and Tokina, and 10-20 Sigma, a 17mm
Tokina is also a good choice .

Tom

oh my gosh, two people say I should look @ D200 instead... ok, what are
main differences, please, between D200 and D80 that will make it worth it
(i.e., justifiable) for me to purchase the D200..

thank you very much..

I've also had a F2AS for nearly 30 years, although I've only shot 2 rolls of
film on it since getting my D70 3 years ago, and don't think I've used it
all since upgrading to a D200 just under a year ago.

I'm assuming you have a collection of AI manual focus lenses to go with your
F2AS. If so, then the chief advantage of the D200 is that is will meter with
them. You could still mount them on the D80, but would need to carry a
hand-held meter if you planned on using them extensively. If on the other
hand you plan to replace all your AI MF lenses with modern AF lenses, then
the price advantage of the D80 will help you do that.

You will probably need to buy at least one new lens (18-70, 18-200, or
12-24mm) because one any Nikon DSLR, your 24mm will only have the angle of
view that a 36mm would have on your F2AS (though as such it is still pretty
useful, and my MF 24mm is possibly the MF lens I use most often on my D200).

ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you mean
w/o AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always
metered manually, so I don't care about that..

yes, my lenses are all manual focus, have never felt a need for AF..
and yes, am planning to get it with the 18-135mm.. (and I think I WILL
go w/the D80, the D200 with this same lens, is way too expensive.. and
main thing I'm trying to avoid is having to change lenses so much...)

thank you all very much..

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:25:46 -0500, maya wrote:

hi,

I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was
considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money; however,
none of them have wide-angle lenses.. and the vast majority of what I
shoot these days (actually for years now) is with a wide-angle; my
"normal" lens is a 24mm.. have barely touched my 50mm in the last six
years or so.. (am putting together a photoblog, would appreciate some
feedback.. www.francesdelrio.com/photoblog/.. thank you..)

I have been using a Nikon F2AS for about thirty years, so this is where
I'm coming from.. am considering either Nikon D50, D70, or D80 (is
it true the D40 has a different lens-mounting system from the others?
why would they do that?) I think I'm going with Nikon D80.. but not
100% sure yet... am traveling to India in about four days (didn't know
firm travel-date till now, trip is job-related..) so need to make a
decision double-quick..

this is a big investment and I want to make sure to invest wisely...
thus would appreciate opinions from knowledgeable folks here..

It's hard to choose the right camera under pressure. But I believe
that the D80 is a fine camera and you probably will not regret buying
it.

But you might regret not having enough time to get some experience
with it so that you can select necessary accessories. There is not
much point to buying an SLR without getting one or more extra lenses.
Will your old lenses be satisfactory? What kind of macro capabilities
do you want? How will you store all your pics? Make sure you have
enough memory cards, or a card reader to store the shots on your
laptop... or burned to DVDs.

It will take you a while to learn to use the camera to advantage. Lots
of time on the plane to read the manual...

KS

"maya" wrote in message
. com...
Apteryx wrote:
"maya" wrote in message
. com...
tomm42 wrote:
Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It
has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too,
but they have to be Ai or AiS, they have "feet" on the aperture ring.
An older non Ai Nikkor can damage the camera's aperture connection to
the lens. Older lenses can be converted.
Focusing with a WA is a bit of a pain with these cameras, I use a 24
f2 with a D200, with a 105 micro I'm fine. The other problem you will
run into is that the sensor is smaller, so your lenses act similar to
lenses 1.5 their focal length. A 24 becomes a 36mm, a 17mm = 25mm.
Takes a little getting used to, all Nikons DSLRs have this. I have 4
lenses 3 primes, a 17mm Tokina, a nice lens, the 24 f2 Nikon, a 55
micro, and a 70-210 f4 zoom, the set isn't perfect but works for me
and cost less than a grand. If you want to use zooms, somehow they go
with digital, the 18-70 Nikkor kit lens is good, but may not be wide
enough for you, the 17-55, and the 17-35, the latter could be used on
your F2, are excellent lenses with fairly high price tags. For wide
angle lenses there are 12-24 Nikon and Tokina, and 10-20 Sigma, a 17mm
Tokina is also a good choice .

Tom

oh my gosh, two people say I should look @ D200 instead... ok, what
are main differences, please, between D200 and D80 that will make it
worth it (i.e., justifiable) for me to purchase the D200..

thank you very much..

I've also had a F2AS for nearly 30 years, although I've only shot 2 rolls
of film on it since getting my D70 3 years ago, and don't think I've used
it all since upgrading to a D200 just under a year ago.

I'm assuming you have a collection of AI manual focus lenses to go with
your F2AS. If so, then the chief advantage of the D200 is that is will
meter with them. You could still mount them on the D80, but would need to
carry a hand-held meter if you planned on using them extensively. If on
the other hand you plan to replace all your AI MF lenses with modern AF
lenses, then the price advantage of the D80 will help you do that.

You will probably need to buy at least one new lens (18-70, 18-200, or
12-24mm) because one any Nikon DSLR, your 24mm will only have the angle
of view that a 36mm would have on your F2AS (though as such it is still
pretty useful, and my MF 24mm is possibly the MF lens I use most often on
my D200).

ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you mean w/o
AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always metered
manually, so I don't care about that..

More than that. The D80 won't give you a meter reading at all with a MF lens
for you to manually set the exposure - because it doesn't know what aperture
you have set on the lens, or indeed the lenses maximum aperture. You need
mechanical links between lens and camera to transmit that info from a MF
lens to the camera, and the D80 and lesser Nikon DSLRs doesn't have them
(they use electronic links to get that info from AF lenses). You would need
to carry a seperate meter, or use trial and error to get the correct
exposure.

The D200 (and more expensive Nikons) has both mechanical links for older
lenses and electronic links for modern ones.

--
Apteryx

Ï "King Sardon" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:25:46 -0500, maya wrote:

hi,

I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was
considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money; however,
none of them have wide-angle lenses.. and the vast majority of what I
shoot these days (actually for years now) is with a wide-angle; my
"normal" lens is a 24mm.. have barely touched my 50mm in the last six
years or so.. (am putting together a photoblog, would appreciate some
feedback.. www.francesdelrio.com/photoblog/.. thank you..)

I have been using a Nikon F2AS for about thirty years, so this is where
I'm coming from.. am considering either Nikon D50, D70, or D80 (is
it true the D40 has a different lens-mounting system from the others?
why would they do that?) I think I'm going with Nikon D80.. but not
100% sure yet... am traveling to India in about four days (didn't know
firm travel-date till now, trip is job-related..) so need to make a
decision double-quick..



Do you consider it wise to jump to a new technology, with an 89degree
learning curve, just four days before a trip like this??????????
Don't you think you need to shoot a few hundreds of pix with your new (so
incredibly capable and amazingly configurable) camera before you embark on
anything of importance????????
Talk about risk taking.........................

On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 11:56:11 +1300, "Apteryx"
wrote:

"maya" wrote in message
.com...
Apteryx wrote:
"maya" wrote in message
. com...
tomm42 wrote:
Look at the D200, has the best feature set of non pro Nikon DSLRs. It
has a build quality like your F2. Can use manual focus lenses too,
but they have to be Ai or AiS, they have "feet" on the aperture ring.
An older non Ai Nikkor can damage the camera's aperture connection to
the lens. Older lenses can be converted.
Focusing with a WA is a bit of a pain with these cameras, I use a 24
f2 with a D200, with a 105 micro I'm fine. The other problem you will
run into is that the sensor is smaller, so your lenses act similar to
lenses 1.5 their focal length. A 24 becomes a 36mm, a 17mm = 25mm.
Takes a little getting used to, all Nikons DSLRs have this. I have 4
lenses 3 primes, a 17mm Tokina, a nice lens, the 24 f2 Nikon, a 55
micro, and a 70-210 f4 zoom, the set isn't perfect but works for me
and cost less than a grand. If you want to use zooms, somehow they go
with digital, the 18-70 Nikkor kit lens is good, but may not be wide
enough for you, the 17-55, and the 17-35, the latter could be used on
your F2, are excellent lenses with fairly high price tags. For wide
angle lenses there are 12-24 Nikon and Tokina, and 10-20 Sigma, a 17mm
Tokina is also a good choice .

Tom

oh my gosh, two people say I should look @ D200 instead... ok, what
are main differences, please, between D200 and D80 that will make it
worth it (i.e., justifiable) for me to purchase the D200..

thank you very much..

I've also had a F2AS for nearly 30 years, although I've only shot 2 rolls
of film on it since getting my D70 3 years ago, and don't think I've used
it all since upgrading to a D200 just under a year ago.

I'm assuming you have a collection of AI manual focus lenses to go with
your F2AS. If so, then the chief advantage of the D200 is that is will
meter with them. You could still mount them on the D80, but would need to
carry a hand-held meter if you planned on using them extensively. If on
the other hand you plan to replace all your AI MF lenses with modern AF
lenses, then the price advantage of the D80 will help you do that.

You will probably need to buy at least one new lens (18-70, 18-200, or
12-24mm) because one any Nikon DSLR, your 24mm will only have the angle
of view that a 36mm would have on your F2AS (though as such it is still
pretty useful, and my MF 24mm is possibly the MF lens I use most often on
my D200).

ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you mean w/o
AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always metered
manually, so I don't care about that..

More than that. The D80 won't give you a meter reading at all with a MF lens
for you to manually set the exposure - because it doesn't know what aperture
you have set on the lens, or indeed the lenses maximum aperture.

It doesn't neet to know what aperture is set to function in stop-down
mode, only how much light is striking the meter.

You need
mechanical links between lens and camera to transmit that info from a MF
lens to the camera, and the D80 and lesser Nikon DSLRs doesn't have them
(they use electronic links to get that info from AF lenses). You would need
to carry a seperate meter, or use trial and error to get the correct
exposure.

The D200 (and more expensive Nikons) has both mechanical links for older
lenses and electronic links for modern ones.

Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:
On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 17:29:45 -0500, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems maya
wrote:

ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you mean
w/o AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've always
metered manually, so I don't care about that.

Yes. Not only will you not me able to use autometering, but you can use the
in camera meter at all, even manually.

yes, my lenses are all manual focus, have never felt a need for AF..
and yes, am planning to get it with the 18-135mm.. (and I think I WILL
go w/the D80, the D200 with this same lens, is way too expensive.. and
main thing I'm trying to avoid is having to change lenses so much...)

You are aware none of these camera have a split screen focus system? So
you either must use the AF meter signal light in the VF to focus or go
purely by your eye. There is an aftermarket company Katz-eye which makes
replacement screens for the D200, not sure if they make one for the D80. In
either case they are not user replaceable and require your to send in the
camera, iirc. The viewfinders may also not be up to what you are used to.
You really need to get each one in your hands and use it.

interesting..... but believe it or not, I have always focused 'by my
eye', as you say.. I just don't like using split-screen focus thingie
to focus, most of the time I'm not even aware the split-screen is
there.. ok, I thank everyone for their help and input.. if I do end up
buying the camera (I still get cold feet... what if I don't like it and
need to return it???) I will come back here and share the photos...
(well, I guess I can share the photos whether or not shoot w/a digital....

thank you very much...

maya wrote:


Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!) wrote:

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 17:29:45 -0500, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems maya
wrote:

ok, when you guys say "will meter" you mean autom. metering? you
mean w/o AF lenses you can't use **automatic** light-meter? I've
always metered manually, so I don't care about that.


Yes. Not only will you not me able to use autometering, but you can
use the
in camera meter at all, even manually.

yes, my lenses are all manual focus, have never felt a need for AF..
and yes, am planning to get it with the 18-135mm.. (and I think I
WILL go w/the D80, the D200 with this same lens, is way too
expensive.. and main thing I'm trying to avoid is having to change
lenses so much...)


You are aware none of these camera have a split screen focus system? So
you either must use the AF meter signal light in the VF to focus or go
purely by your eye. There is an aftermarket company Katz-eye which makes
replacement screens for the D200, not sure if they make one for the
D80. In
either case they are not user replaceable and require your to send in the
camera, iirc. The viewfinders may also not be up to what you are used to.
You really need to get each one in your hands and use it.


interesting..... but believe it or not, I have always focused 'by my
eye', as you say.. I just don't like using split-screen focus thingie
to focus, most of the time I'm not even aware the split-screen is
there.. ok, I thank everyone for their help and input.. if I do end up
buying the camera (I still get cold feet... what if I don't like it and
need to return it???) I will come back here and share the photos...
(well, I guess I can share the photos whether or not shoot w/a
digital....

thank you very much...

If you are used to manual focusing by eye, nothing less than a D80 will
even come close to your expectations because the lesser models have very
dim small viewfinders.

Also you said you set exposure manually but the D200 will at least let
you use the meter to make that judgement. You will have the capability
to review your shots & adjust exposure that way but this is really
different than what you are used to.

I shoot with a D200 and my latest favorite is an old 28mm f/2 manual
focus, this is equivalent to a 42mm normal lens and it's awfully darn
difficult to manually focus, on my old D70 it would be hopelessly
frustrating. I think this will be a big change for you and the D200 is
the best choice because of more knobs & manual controls.

If you get a D40, 50, 70 then throw out your old lenses. You will need a
D200 to make any decent use of the old lenses. If you are used to fast
wide glass, that's simply not an option & you should stick with film.

A D80 will not give you the possibility of a 24mm f/2.8 equivalent. The
standard kit lense starts at 27mm & slow, the D70 kit lens is 25.5mm &
slow. When I say slow I'm talking about getting that shallow DOF you are
accustomed to, if your style is deep DOF then any of these will do fine
given the ability to boost ISO/ASA for hand held speeds. If you like the
shallow DOF for isolating subjects with blurry background at wide angles
you are not going to like a crop frame DSLR

maya wrote:
hi,

I'm getting ready to purchase a digital camera; for a while was
considering a point-and-shoot for the time being to save money;
however, none of them have wide-angle lenses.. and the vast
majority of what I shoot these days (actually for years now) is with
a wide-angle; my "normal" lens is a 24mm.. have barely touched my
50mm in the last six years or so.. (am putting together a photoblog,
would appreciate some feedback.. www.francesdelrio.com/photoblog/..
thank you..)

I guess you didn't find the Nikon 8400 (24 - 85mm) or the Kodak V705 (23 -
117mm):

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8400/

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06...akv705c875.asp

I used to have a Nikon F3 with all the lenses, but find smaller cameras
like the ones above much more convenient when travelling. I also have a
Panasonic FZ5 for image-stabilised telephoto up to 432mm equivalent.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz5/

The FZ5 has now been superseded by the FZ7/FZ8, and the Nikon 8400 has not
been replaced (perhaps because Nikon can make more money selling DSLRs?).

David

It may be too late but one other factor I did not notice anywhere in
this thread is weather sealing. D200 has it D80 does not, could be a
factor travelling in India (heat, humidity, dust). However, if you
can't afford the D200 the D80 will likely be your next best overall
choice for features and functionality.

I admire your courage stepping into the world of digital prior to
travelling somewhere with infinite photo ops like India. Let us know
how you make out and post some of your pics from the trip.

Paul Furman wrote:

If you are used to manual focusing by eye, nothing less than a D80 will
even come close to your expectations because the lesser models have very
dim small viewfinders.

Also you said you set exposure manually but the D200 will at least let
you use the meter to make that judgement. You will have the capability
to review your shots & adjust exposure that way but this is really
different than what you are used to.

I shoot with a D200 and my latest favorite is an old 28mm f/2 manual
focus, this is equivalent to a 42mm normal lens and it's awfully darn
difficult to manually focus, on my old D70 it would be hopelessly
frustrating. I think this will be a big change for you and the D200 is
the best choice because of more knobs & manual controls.

If you get a D40, 50, 70 then throw out your old lenses. You will need a
D200 to make any decent use of the old lenses. If you are used to fast
wide glass, that's simply not an option & you should stick with film.

A D80 will not give you the possibility of a 24mm f/2.8 equivalent. The
standard kit lense starts at 27mm & slow, the D70 kit lens is 25.5mm &
slow. When I say slow I'm talking about getting that shallow DOF you are
accustomed to, if your style is deep DOF then any of these will do fine
given the ability to boost ISO/ASA for hand held speeds. If you like the
shallow DOF for isolating subjects with blurry background at wide angles
you are not going to like a crop frame DSLR

Agreed. If you want wide angle and will need to buy new lenses,
then also consider a full frame camera (I think there are 2:
Canon 5D and Canon 1D mark II). Supposedly you can use
some old nikon manual focus lenses on the canons too.
In either case, the spring photo show is in early March and many
new cameras will be introduced, so there may be new options.

Roger