Agfapan 25

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote
John wrote:
IMO APX25 was simply the most beautiful film ever produced.

Interesting. I've heard this often about APX25, KB14 (KB25), PAN-X, and PAN-F,
occasionaly about Plus-X [let me guess, only about the sheet film, ed.],
rarely about TRI-X and NEVER about T-MAX or the chromgenic (XP-1/XP-2, etc)
films.

You will hear it about T-Max when it, too, is no longer made.

I still have some 18 rolls (? Pro/Press pack - 2 rolls) of APX25 in the
freezer. Pretty ho-hum stuff, IMO.

However, most of my freezer is filled with Kodachrome and Tech Pan --
"simply the most beautiful films ever produced".

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Christian Kolinski wrote:

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

What sort of film holder would you use for the 105x148mm film? Would it be possible
to mate this up to a 2x3 Graflex for instance? Seems like it should work.

Christian Kolinski wrote:

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

What sort of film holder would you use for the 105x148mm film? Would it be possible
to mate this up to a 2x3 Graflex for instance? Seems like it should work.

wrote:

I'm still reeling from the Kodak Tech Pan decision as I'm sure many of
you are. I've been doing a small stocking up but of course an
alternative would be better than stuffing my freezer with film. I've
seen that Agfa makes a 25 speed B&W film for the Minox format. If this
film were to be produced in 35mm and/or 120, how good of a substitute
would it be for Tech Pan. Also, is it any good to begin with?
Thanks


There simply is no substitute for Tech Pan. There is
no film that is it's equal. No conventional film can
match the granularity of Tech Pan. Tech Pan, as opposed
to other pictorial films, had an emulsion composed of
silver halide crystals nearly all the same size. This is
what gave it both it's exceptionally fine grain and high
contrast characteristics. A POTA developer was thus the
only developer that could produce normal contrast.

APX 25 was a good film, but also grainier, since as a
conventional pictorial film it contained a mix of both
larger and small crystals.

A t-grain film is probably about as close as you'll
come, but can't equal Tech Pan.

Tom Phillips wrote:

wrote:

I'm still reeling from the Kodak Tech Pan decision as I'm sure many of
you are. I've been doing a small stocking up but of course an
alternative would be better than stuffing my freezer with film. I've
seen that Agfa makes a 25 speed B&W film for the Minox format. If this
film were to be produced in 35mm and/or 120, how good of a substitute
would it be for Tech Pan. Also, is it any good to begin with?
Thanks

There simply is no substitute for Tech Pan. There is
no film that is it's equal. No conventional film can
match the granularity of Tech Pan. Tech Pan, as opposed
to other pictorial films, had an emulsion composed of
silver halide crystals nearly all the same size. This is
what gave it both it's exceptionally fine grain and high
contrast characteristics. A POTA developer was thus the
only developer that could produce normal contrast.

APX 25 was a good film, but also grainier, since as a
conventional pictorial film it contained a mix of both
larger and small crystals.

A t-grain film is probably about as close as you'll
come, but can't equal Tech Pan.

Frankly, I'm not looking for a film with the same "look" as Tech Pan, but
just with the same granularity. I'm sure Kodak could make a T-Max 25 if they
wanted to, but they're not about to do that, so I have to scrounge around
other makes to find something similar. TMX to me has visibly more grain than
Tech Pan .

Frankly, I'm not looking for a film with the same "look" as Tech Pan, but
just with the same granularity. I'm sure Kodak could make a T-Max 25 if
they
wanted to, but they're not about to do that, so I have to scrounge around
other makes to find something similar. TMX to me has visibly more grain
than
Tech Pan .

If what you need is mainly grainlessness, and not high resolution, you might
consider a C-41 black-and-white film.

OP wrote:

Frankly, I'm not looking for a film with the same "look" as Tech Pan, but
just with the same granularity. ... TMX to me has visibly more grain
than Tech Pan.

Are you sure? Grain-wise I can not tell TMX in Microdol-X Vs TP/Technidol
when looking at a uniform grey area. With 16x enlargements I need to view at
closer than 6" to see any grain. Close up TMX/MX-1:3 shows a sharp salt &
pepper grain that looks better than MX-FS and TP. Resolution with TMAX/M-X
is the same at F.S. and at 1:3.

Resolution is a different kettle of fish:

When there is detail the TechPan looks far smoother.

A step tablet at 50' when printed at 16x shows well delineated steps
with TP and is a smudge with TMX in MX. The steps are far larger than
the resolution limit.

The improved low contrast MTF of TechPan may be the reason its 'large format'
look.

Tests were of an Air force target and a Kodak 'Color Separation Guide/Grey
Scale'. Taken at 50ft. Micro Nikkor 55mm @ f8. Nikon F-3, critical
magnifier, MLU, Gitzo Pro Studex, overcast day, no wind.

Resolutions we

TMX/MX-FS 60 lp/mm
TMX/MX-1:3 75 lp/mm
TP/Technidol 120 lp/mm

As measured with a loupe on 16x RC prints, 50/2.8 El Nikkor @f8.

I'm sure Kodak could make a T-Max 25 if they wanted to

They don't want to.

If enough folks used TP to make it wildly popular then they would.

We have only ourselves to blame for TP's (and K25's) demise.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:

I'm sure Kodak could make a T-Max 25 if they wanted to

They don't want to.

Agreed

If enough folks used TP to make it wildly popular then they would.

We have only ourselves to blame for TP's (and K25's) demise.


I don't know if I agree there. I never read anywhere that Kodak claimed they
weren't making a reasonable margin on the film, but that some of the ingredients
became "obsolete". Often suppliers make concious decisions to pull out of
profitable products for some sort of streamlining objective or even for
political/union issues. There has been some discussion that Kodak and other film
makes are poised to release a whole new generation of film products that would
blow TP away. The theory goes that this new "generation" of products has already
been developed and has yet to be manufactured. I find this hard to believe.
What I find easier to believe is outfits like the makers of Gigabit, Bluefire
Police and other microfilm stocks moving into the TP market and making a whole
lot of money. I would be happy with this if they would just produce it in a 120
size.

wrote:
Christian Kolinski wrote:

Microfilm is manufactured only in a few standard-sizes:
16mm unperforated
35mm unperforated
35mm perforated
105mm unperf (?).
and 105mm x 148mm - Fiche.

What sort of film holder would you use for the 105x148mm film? Would it be possible
to mate this up to a 2x3 Graflex for instance? Seems like it should work.

Well, 105x148mm is a bit larger than 4x5", so it has to be cut to size anyway.

Christian

wrote:
: "Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:

: I'm sure Kodak could make a T-Max 25 if they wanted to
:
: They don't want to.

: Agreed

: If enough folks used TP to make it wildly popular then they would.
:
: We have only ourselves to blame for TP's (and K25's) demise.
:

: I don't know if I agree there. I never read anywhere that Kodak claimed they
: weren't making a reasonable margin on the film, but that some of the ingredients
: became "obsolete". Often suppliers make concious decisions to pull out of
: profitable products for some sort of streamlining objective or even for
: political/union issues. There has been some discussion that Kodak and other film
: makes are poised to release a whole new generation of film products that would
: blow TP away. The theory goes that this new "generation" of products has already
: been developed and has yet to be manufactured. I find this hard to believe.
: What I find easier to believe is outfits like the makers of Gigabit, Bluefire
: Police and other microfilm stocks moving into the TP market and making a whole
: lot of money. I would be happy with this if they would just produce it in a 120
: size.

The reason that Kodak dropped the film was they weren't selling enough of it to make
it worth their while to make it work with a new base.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------