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New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 16th 06, 06:36 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Wayne J. Cosshall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

ray wrote:
Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.


I can tell you that I am constantly considering changes to the site, and
will take the preceding comments on board, as I always do. However, if
you have actually designed a site with as much content as my one has,
you'll know that there are a lot of issues in the design of the site,
many of which pull you in opposite directions. Moving away from the
'traditional' blue underlined links is not something you do lightly.
Many sites have moved away from this, to a greater or lesser extent,
such as:
http://www.theage.com.au/
and
http://www.nytimes.com/
Others have not. It is, in fact, all a juggling act, usually informed by
assessments of the types of users visiting a site and their level of
proficiency.

There is the rollover change of color when you hover the cursor, but I
will change that to include an underline so it is even clearer.

The specifics of Mark's page are flexible. I put the cruise ad in to
support Mark. Without it the links to the individual columns comes up
much higher. I think I'll move it below the column links.

Cheers,

Wayne

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
  #12  
Old December 16th 06, 05:15 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Rick Sciacca
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Posts: 28
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

On 12/16/06 1:36 AM, "Wayne J. Cosshall" wrote:

Many sites have moved away from this, to a greater or lesser extent,
such as:
http://www.theage.com.au/
and
http://www.nytimes.com/


They put underlines when you mouse over, which lets browsers know it is a
link. Your site changes the color to indicate a link. That is fine with me,
I just think that you can't please everyone all the time.

-- Rick
http://fixupix.tripod.com/
http://www.backprint.com/cnypix


  #13  
Old December 16th 06, 10:43 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
James McNangle
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Posts: 12
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

ray wrote:

Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.


3) Get rid of all the crap!


James McNangle
  #14  
Old December 16th 06, 10:52 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Wayne J. Cosshall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

James McNangle wrote:
ray wrote:

Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.


3) Get rid of all the crap!


James McNangle

Define crap?

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
  #15  
Old December 17th 06, 05:35 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Fred
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

Wayne J. Cosshall wrote:
James McNangle wrote:
ray wrote:

Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.


3) Get rid of all the crap!


James McNangle

Define crap?

your website layout for starters
  #16  
Old December 17th 06, 08:54 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Neil Ellwood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 493
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:43:52 +1100
James McNangle wrote:

ray wrote:

Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.


3) Get rid of all the crap!


James McNangle

Chrikey !!!
I'm back to a blank screen.

--
Neil
Reverse 'ra' and delete 'l'.
  #17  
Old December 17th 06, 09:58 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Wayne J. Cosshall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

ray wrote:
Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.

Ok, Ray, I am trying all links with underlines. Personally I find it
makes things more cluttered but I am willing to give it a try. I am
happy for meaningful feedback, such as yours was.

I've also changed the main page for Mark's column.

Cheers,

Wayne

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
  #18  
Old December 17th 06, 10:35 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Duncan
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Posts: 36
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

Links only have to reveal themselves when a cursor is moved over it and so
the decoration need not be visual until required. Thus maintaining a neat
and visually appealing design.

Duncan


"Wayne J. Cosshall" wrote in message
...
ray wrote:
Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.

Ok, Ray, I am trying all links with underlines. Personally I find it makes
things more cluttered but I am willing to give it a try. I am happy for
meaningful feedback, such as yours was.

I've also changed the main page for Mark's column.

Cheers,

Wayne

--
Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/



  #19  
Old December 17th 06, 11:55 AM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
Poxy
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Posts: 24
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky


"Wayne J. Cosshall" wrote in message
...
ray wrote:
Two prime tenets of web site design:

1) make the links look like links
2) put the material of primary interest 'above the fold'.

Ok, Ray, I am trying all links with underlines. Personally I find it
makes things more cluttered but I am willing to give it a try. I am
happy for meaningful feedback, such as yours was.

I've also changed the main page for Mark's column.


I'm gonna weigh in here - I had a brief look at Wayne's site, and I can
appreciate why people might perceive it as "cluttered", but it has nothing
to do with whether links are underlined or not, rather it's to do with the
basics of page layout and typography. What is clear is that while Wayne
might be a good photographer, he's not a graphic/web designer.

Fundamentally, what the site layout lacks is the correct amount "air" around
text, and poor site layout that lacks the structural signals that users
expect to see. That said, while I use the term "poor" in referring to some
aspects, it's not to say his isn't a good site - it has a great deal of
valuable content.

A full analysis would take up way too much space, but broadly, the left and
right columns are an un-structured parade of links - there's just too much
to take in. The left is the worst - it needs to be broken down into a couple
of easily understandable sub-groups. Good hierarchical structure draws
people in deeper, whereas the "flat" structure presented is overwhelming.

Also, it strikes me that the site needs more of a real magazine structure as
opposed to a literal collection of articles sorted by category - ie. you can
have that, but presenting the content with the headline "Articles in the
category Audio" makes it seem like you're doing a series of database
searches, which you are, but it can be presented in a less literal manner.
Just changing the headline to "Audio Articles" and losing the "Articles reco
rds 1-20 of 28" from the top (it could go at the bottom next to the result
navigation) would be a good start.

The centre column is also a bit of a mess. Any photographic site, which is
fundamentally all about *pictures*, that starts with a paragraph crushed up
the top that delves immediately into how to make the site more "usable" is
an immediate admission that the site might be a bit tough to use.

It should start with a killer pic sitting clear and clean - the IR one at
the moment is fine, but surrounded by a mix of text sizes and weights
detracts from its impact.

My suggestion would be to sit down with a good web designer with a proven
track record in this kind of site and CMS software, and re-work the
templates to reflect solid page layout principles, and let them take a fresh
look at the structure and see if it can't be re-organised in a simpler, more
accessible style.

As I said, lots of great content, but the manner in which it's presented
makes the sheer mass of information seem overwhelming.



  #20  
Old December 18th 06, 12:13 PM posted to alt.photography,aus.photo,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital.zlr
James McNangle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default New Foto Tip column by Mark Alberhasky

"Wayne J. Cosshall" wrote:

James McNangle wrote:

.......
3) Get rid of all the crap!


Define crap?


Perhaps the clue to the problem with your web site is contained in the line "The
online magazine and reference site for photography, graphic design, digital art,
Web design, video, illustration and image creation." Any one of these subjects
would be quite sufficient for a single web site, but you have them all together,
all mixed up in a horrendous jumble. And, even worse, this horrendous jumble is
reproduced on every page. About the only thing I can say in favour of the site
is that it doesn't sing or dance.

Consider the page http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=799.

This is titled "A day of shooting with my Infrared converted Canon 350D". By
the time someone gets to this page all they want to see is what results you have
managed to get. But what do they get?

On the left, a column 160 pixels wide, containing a plague of totally irrelevant
links. On the right, another column 160 pixels wide, containing another plague
of equally irrelevant links. In the middle a couple of ads, then an
introduction, and yet another column 160 pixels wide, containing yet another
plague of irrelevant links. Below this we finally get to the demonstration
photos, all 450 pixels wide.

If you threw out all this rubbish, or sorted it into categories, with the
material relevant to each category on a separate page, so that this page only
displayed the actual test photos and your comments on them, you could make the
pictures much bigger, so that the viewer could really see what you are on about,
without being distracted by a whole heap of totally irrelevant crap.


James McNangle
 




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