Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one,
and
need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the
cloud, but
even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.

Of course it has.

sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.

In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot
master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or
something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a
USB memory stick.

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

false.

as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult
than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button:
https://support.apple.com/library/co...are/images/en_
US/osx/tm_new_drive.png

as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak
things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding
certain files, but that's not required.

viewing photos on a usb stick requires navigating the file system and
using at least two apps, versus zero.

I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people.

Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.

it hasn't changed.

Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement.

no, you hoped that something changed it so you could argue about that
too.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:36:42 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one,
and
need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the
cloud, but
even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.

Of course it has.

sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.

In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot
master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or
something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a
USB memory stick.

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

false.

as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult
than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button:
https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/osx/tm_new_drive.png

Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a
problem involving Windows 10.

In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What
is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it.

as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak
things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding
certain files, but that's not required.

I am sure she would be quite mystified by the concept of destinations
in this context.

viewing photos on a usb stick requires navigating the file system and
using at least two apps, versus zero.

Time Machine is not an app?

In the case of my sister, it required several emails of instruction
before she could even plug it in. From then on it got worse. I am
unfamiliar with Apples and it turned out that in spite of using them
for more than 20 years, so too is my sister. In fact it is my
experience that many casual users of computers of all kinds do not
understand how they work but operate them by rote and literally have
to be taught before they can do anything new.

I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people.

Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.

it hasn't changed.

Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement.

no, you hoped that something changed it so you could argue about that
too.

In this case my argument consists of offering evidence that suggested
that there is a class of users for whom initiating backups is not a
trivial task. They are not uncommon and denial of their existence will
not cause them to cease to exist.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:21:58 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 09:49:35 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and
need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but
even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.

Of course it has.

sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.

In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot
master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or
something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a
USB memory stick.

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

It's been a while since I set up my backups, but - as I remember - I
had to make choices...where to back-up, when to back up, and what type
of back-up to do. That is a rather complicated process for someone
who is not computer-savvy. Even before that the person has to know
how to even start the process.

Viewing files on a USB stick is not as complicated, but it does
require that the person choose how to read them (the app to use) and
to navigate to the correct drive letter. And, then, to know how to
advance through the images.

The sender usually doesn't know what app the receiving person has that
is a proper viewer.

I would say that neither process is "simple" for the raw novice.

I just stuck a USB stick containing images in my (Windows) computer.
Nothing popped up to tell me what to do. Given what you've said about
your sister's computer skills, without instructions from you she
wouldn't know what to do. But, she wouldn't know what to do if you
told her to back-up her files, either.

To try to compare the complexity of the two tasks is ridiculous, but
that's where nospam shines: proposing the ridiculous just to argue.

I haven't sent a USB stick to anyone similar to your sister, but I do
send SmugMug gallery links (family pix) to some elderly relatives that
have similar computer skills. I include instructions on how to open
the link and how to advance through the gallery.




I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people.

Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.

it hasn't changed.

Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.

In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot
master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or
something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a
USB memory stick.

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

false.

as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult
than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button:

https://support.apple.com/library/co...images/en_US/o
sx/tm_new_drive.png

Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a
problem involving Windows 10.

backups are not a platform specific issue.

just because windows lacks something as easy to use as time machine
doesn't mean it does not exist.

In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What
is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it.

nope. she just needs to connect an external drive and click the 'use as
backup disk' button. it really is that simple.

as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak
things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding
certain files, but that's not required.

I am sure she would be quite mystified by the concept of destinations
in this context.

what part of "that's not required" is not clear?

viewing photos on a usb stick requires navigating the file system and
using at least two apps, versus zero.

Time Machine is not an app?

no. it's part of the operating system.

once enabled, it runs without any user interaction.

In the case of my sister, it required several emails of instruction
before she could even plug it in. From then on it got worse. I am
unfamiliar with Apples and it turned out that in spite of using them
for more than 20 years, so too is my sister. In fact it is my
experience that many casual users of computers of all kinds do not
understand how they work but operate them by rote and literally have
to be taught before they can do anything new.

in other words, a lot more complex than automatic backups.

I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people.

Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.

it hasn't changed.

Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement.

no, you hoped that something changed it so you could argue about that
too.

In this case my argument consists of offering evidence that suggested
that there is a class of users for whom initiating backups is not a
trivial task. They are not uncommon and denial of their existence will
not cause them to cease to exist.

your argument assumes all computers are as difficult to use as windows
and will remain that way forever.

that is not a good assumption.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

It's been a while since I set up my backups, but - as I remember - I
had to make choices...where to back-up, when to back up, and what type
of back-up to do. That is a rather complicated process for someone
who is not computer-savvy. Even before that the person has to know
how to even start the process.

what *you* did might have been complicated, but that doesn't mean it's
complicated for everyone. you like to do things the hard way. others do
not.

Viewing files on a USB stick is not as complicated, but it does
require that the person choose how to read them (the app to use) and
to navigate to the correct drive letter. And, then, to know how to
advance through the images.

in other words, more complicated.

The sender usually doesn't know what app the receiving person has that
is a proper viewer.

the sender does not need to know what apps the recipient has or chooses
to use unless it's a non-standard format that requires a specific app.

a usb stick full of jpegs does not require anything special.

I would say that neither process is "simple" for the raw novice.

then you'd be wrong. again.

I just stuck a USB stick containing images in my (Windows) computer.
Nothing popped up to tell me what to do. Given what you've said about
your sister's computer skills, without instructions from you she
wouldn't know what to do. But, she wouldn't know what to do if you
told her to back-up her files, either.

what part of 'automatic' do you not understand?

To try to compare the complexity of the two tasks is ridiculous, but
that's where nospam shines: proposing the ridiculous just to argue.

nope. eric brought up usb sticks when the discussion was about the
simplicity of automatic backups.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:49:24 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.

In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot
master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or
something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a
USB memory stick.

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

false.

as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult
than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button:

https://support.apple.com/library/co...images/en_US/o
sx/tm_new_drive.png

Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a
problem involving Windows 10.

backups are not a platform specific issue.

The presumed ease of use of Time Machine is.

just because windows lacks something as easy to use as time machine
doesn't mean it does not exist.

If Windows lacks it there in point in you citing it.

In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What
is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it.

nope. she just needs to connect an external drive and click the 'use as
backup disk' button. it really is that simple.

What makes you think that if she couldn't use a USB memory stick she
could connect an external drive and click the 'use backup' button
(what use back up button?).

as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak
things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding
certain files, but that's not required.

I am sure she would be quite mystified by the concept of destinations
in this context.

what part of "that's not required" is not clear?

The part where you wrote about it. What would a person such as my
sister do when confronted with the apparent need to choose a
destination?

viewing photos on a usb stick requires navigating the file system and
using at least two apps, versus zero.

Time Machine is not an app?

no. it's part of the operating system.

Are you saying that Apples needs at least two apps to enable viewing
of images on a USB memory stick?

once enabled, it runs without any user interaction.

In the case of my sister, it required several emails of instruction
before she could even plug it in. From then on it got worse. I am
unfamiliar with Apples and it turned out that in spite of using them
for more than 20 years, so too is my sister. In fact it is my
experience that many casual users of computers of all kinds do not
understand how they work but operate them by rote and literally have
to be taught before they can do anything new.

in other words, a lot more complex than automatic backups.

.... no more complex once the proper use has been demonstrated.

I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people.

Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.

it hasn't changed.

Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement.

no, you hoped that something changed it so you could argue about that
too.

In this case my argument consists of offering evidence that suggested
that there is a class of users for whom initiating backups is not a
trivial task. They are not uncommon and denial of their existence will
not cause them to cease to exist.

your argument assumes all computers are as difficult to use as windows
and will remain that way forever.

You are attempting to change the subject. That's twice now. The
discussion is about backing up Windows 10. Apples have nothing to do
with it.

that is not a good assumption.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

false.

as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult
than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button:

https://support.apple.com/library/co...care/images/en
_US/osx/tm_new_drive.png

Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a
problem involving Windows 10.

backups are not a platform specific issue.

The presumed ease of use of Time Machine is.

it's not presumed. it *is* easier.

just because windows lacks something as easy to use as time machine
doesn't mean it does not exist.

If Windows lacks it there in point in you citing it.

that sentence does not make sense as written.

In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What
is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it.

nope. she just needs to connect an external drive and click the 'use as
backup disk' button. it really is that simple.

What makes you think that if she couldn't use a USB memory stick she
could connect an external drive and click the 'use backup' button
(what use back up button?).

this isn't specifically about her, but it really isn't very difficult.
if she can't handle it, someone else in the household can.

how did she manage to plug the computer into mains power and set it up?
that is a *lot* more steps than for time machine.

as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak
things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding
certain files, but that's not required.

I am sure she would be quite mystified by the concept of destinations
in this context.

what part of "that's not required" is not clear?

The part where you wrote about it. What would a person such as my
sister do when confronted with the apparent need to choose a
destination?

she won't see that unless she goes looking for it.

as i said:
what part of "that's not required" is not clear?

you are mistakenly assuming it's more difficult to use than it actually
is because you don't know any different.

viewing photos on a usb stick requires navigating the file system and
using at least two apps, versus zero.

Time Machine is not an app?

no. it's part of the operating system.

Are you saying that Apples needs at least two apps to enable viewing
of images on a USB memory stick?

nope. i'm saying *all* computers do, one to access and/or copy the
individual files within the file system and another to view the photos.

people ignore the fact that windows file explorer and mac finder are
apps.

once enabled, it runs without any user interaction.

In the case of my sister, it required several emails of instruction
before she could even plug it in. From then on it got worse. I am
unfamiliar with Apples and it turned out that in spite of using them
for more than 20 years, so too is my sister. In fact it is my
experience that many casual users of computers of all kinds do not
understand how they work but operate them by rote and literally have
to be taught before they can do anything new.

in other words, a lot more complex than automatic backups.

... no more complex once the proper use has been demonstrated.

that proper use must be demonstrated is clear proof that the product is
more complex than it needs to be.

you are making excuses for a poor design.

I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can
be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks.

what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most
people.

Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind.

it hasn't changed.

Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement.

no, you hoped that something changed it so you could argue about that
too.

In this case my argument consists of offering evidence that suggested
that there is a class of users for whom initiating backups is not a
trivial task. They are not uncommon and denial of their existence will
not cause them to cease to exist.

your argument assumes all computers are as difficult to use as windows
and will remain that way forever.

You are attempting to change the subject. That's twice now. The
discussion is about backing up Windows 10. Apples have nothing to do
with it.

i haven't changed anything.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:49:25 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are
two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is
completely manual.

Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up
an automatic backup.

It's been a while since I set up my backups, but - as I remember - I
had to make choices...where to back-up, when to back up, and what type
of back-up to do. That is a rather complicated process for someone
who is not computer-savvy. Even before that the person has to know
how to even start the process.

what *you* did might have been complicated, but that doesn't mean it's
complicated for everyone. you like to do things the hard way. others do
not.

Viewing files on a USB stick is not as complicated, but it does
require that the person choose how to read them (the app to use) and
to navigate to the correct drive letter. And, then, to know how to
advance through the images.

in other words, more complicated.

The sender usually doesn't know what app the receiving person has that
is a proper viewer.

the sender does not need to know what apps the recipient has or chooses
to use unless it's a non-standard format that requires a specific app.

a usb stick full of jpegs does not require anything special.

I would say that neither process is "simple" for the raw novice.

then you'd be wrong. again.

I just stuck a USB stick containing images in my (Windows) computer.
Nothing popped up to tell me what to do. Given what you've said about
your sister's computer skills, without instructions from you she
wouldn't know what to do. But, she wouldn't know what to do if you
told her to back-up her files, either.

what part of 'automatic' do you not understand?

To try to compare the complexity of the two tasks is ridiculous, but
that's where nospam shines: proposing the ridiculous just to argue.

nope. eric brought up usb sticks when the discussion was about the
simplicity of automatic backups.

I did that to illustrate how easily people can be frustrated by even
the simplest of unfamiliar tasks.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , MC
wrote:

I am learning that it is only his opinion that counts. These one word,
or general, reasonless, dismissals of anyone else's comments are only
making him look like the ignorrant one.

i dismiss what is demonstrably false, with an explanation of why it's
false, unless it's so ludicrous that no explanation is needed.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

To try to compare the complexity of the two tasks is ridiculous, but
that's where nospam shines: proposing the ridiculous just to argue.

nope. eric brought up usb sticks when the discussion was about the
simplicity of automatic backups.

I did that to illustrate how easily people can be frustrated by even
the simplest of unfamiliar tasks.

it's not unfamiliarity that's the problem, it's poor design.