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#71
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 00:26:36 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb stick. one need not know how to do that for backups to occur. Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk? automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special. Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups stored. either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is enable backups, which is trivial. They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow. there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done. My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB stick. I am sure she is not alone. that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion. Of course it has. I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks. however, it does further the point that people incorrectly assume computers are hard to use, which requires technical skills and extensive training. For her, they are. Anything much beyond facebook or email is terra icognito. you should also have known that your own sister would not know what to do with a usb stick. why even send her one in the first place? Why should I? We have lived in different countries for 60 years. the easiest solution would have been to use photo sharing, then the photos would have appeared on her devices without her needing to do anything special, including an apple tv if she has one. another option would have been to email or text the photos, or upload them to a photo sharing site and then send her the links. it's not as simple or as elegant, but it would have worked. 4GB? -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#72
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On 10/13/2018 7:51 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 16:34:00 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote: On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:08:22 GMT, "MC" wrote: nospam wrote: In article , Alan Browne wrote: The most reliable and stable OS I've ever used is Mac OS. Not perfect put miles above the ****pile of Windows. agreed, as are the vast majority of mac apps. MS Word and Excel are miles above Apple's offerings (with one exception) ----- [1] Can't speak about Powerpoint as I've never used Keynote. i wasn't talking specifically about those, however, apple's pages and numbers were never intended to be replacements for word/excel. they're designed for average users doing common tasks, whereas word/excel tries to be everything for everyone, and harder to use as a result. Nothing hard about Word or Excel. They are incredibly rich in features, but that doesn't mean one needs to use them initially to get work done. it's overkill for what most people want to do, as is photoshop for basic photo editing. sure, someone 'could' use it for simple stuff, but the average user would be lost. also, pages, numbers and keynote are free. word & excel are not. macs include a lot of stuff that windows requires people to pay extra for. The statement [1] was about what are the better apps. Word and Excel hands down. maybe for you, but not for everyone. I go to a supermarket to buy a loaf of bread. Just because the supermarket sells thousands of other products does not mean I have to buy them all so I can get my loaf of bread. Using Word and Excel is no harder to use for "simple" tasks as it to use a more basic wp or spreadsheet applications. It is just that Word and Excel offer a whole lot more should you need, or be inclined to learn how, to use its more advanced features. As for FREE? Open Office (and its various guises) is not to shabby when comparing itself to Microsoft offerings. It certainly out-does most, if not all, other free "office" based applications when it comes to features. MC I've used (almost) everything from WordStar and VisiCalc to current apps, and presently use Open Office for both text and spreadsheets. Now that I'm retired, my needs are simpler, and Open Office does everything I expect/need. "Better" is determined by a combination of criteria because "better" is a subjective user-defined term. In this case, Open Office is the better app for this user...it does what I need and there is no cost. For text, I personally rated WordPerfect as the better app, but when Corel took it over it went downhill faster than Jean-Claude Killy and crashed like Eddie the Eagle. That was at least partly due to the damage wreaked by Microsoft withholding the new revised Visual Basic from Wordperfect for six months in the days before Corel bought the the wreck. In effect Microsoft was able to hamstring their only significant competition while giving themselves a clear run. What happened after was not entirely Corel's fault. Those with more extensive experience with Corel know that they've screwed up every app they acquired. They wrecked Ventura Publisher to the point where it never worked as well as what they acquired. Ask XARA what they think of Corel, who pretty much pushed them into non-existence in a market where they once competed with Adobe. They even sidelined their own premier app, Draw, because of their insistence on using non-compliant PostScript code in a pitiful attempt to challenge Adobe's dominance. I could go on, but there isn't much point, is there? -- best regards, Neil |
#73
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 00:08:51 GMT, "MC" wrote:
open office may be free, but it's also crap. Whatever. Hey, everybody, don't bother using Open Office coz its crap. Nospam says so. No idea why he says so but he does. Yeah, but if anyone else had said it was "crap", nospam would say "nope" or "false". Nospam's position is to always take the opposite position. Facts never factor in. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#74
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote: Yeah, but if anyone else had said it was "crap", nospam would say "nope" or "false". Nospam's position is to always take the opposite position. Facts never factor in. ad hominem. |
#75
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb stick. one need not know how to do that for backups to occur. Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk? automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special. Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups stored. either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is enable backups, which is trivial. They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow. there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done. My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB stick. I am sure she is not alone. that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion. Of course it has. sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with backups. I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks. what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people. that continues to improve, but for some reason, many people are fighting it. however, it does further the point that people incorrectly assume computers are hard to use, which requires technical skills and extensive training. For her, they are. Anything much beyond facebook or email is terra icognito. then you should have used facebook or email. you chose the wrong method and are blaming her. you should also have known that your own sister would not know what to do with a usb stick. why even send her one in the first place? Why should I? We have lived in different countries for 60 years. because she's your sister. it's one thing if you sent it to a random unknown person, but you should know that your sister would be confused with a usb stick full of photos. the easiest solution would have been to use photo sharing, then the photos would have appeared on her devices without her needing to do anything special, including an apple tv if she has one. another option would have been to email or text the photos, or upload them to a photo sharing site and then send her the links. it's not as simple or as elegant, but it would have worked. 4GB? doesn't matter, although texting would not be ideal. |
#76
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , MC
wrote: it's overkill for what most people want to do, as is photoshop for basic photo editing. sure, someone 'could' use it for simple stuff, but the average user would be lost. also, pages, numbers and keynote are free. word & excel are not. macs include a lot of stuff that windows requires people to pay extra for. The statement [1] was about what are the better apps. Word and Excel hands down. maybe for you, but not for everyone. I go to a supermarket to buy a loaf of bread. Just because the supermarket sells thousands of other products does not mean I have to buy them all so I can get my loaf of bread. not a good analogy, but if all you want is bread, then a bakery is a better choice, likely offering a better selection and also fresher. Now you are just being pedantic for no other reason other that to get the last word. nope. just pointing out the problems with your claims. Of course bakery bread is better but that is not the argument. I could quite easily have used "milk", "beans" or "candy" in my example. that *is* the argument. word/excel does more, but it's overkill for what most people want to do. a product optimized for a given task is a better choice than one that does everything. jack of all trades, master of none. an slr with a bag full of lenses is more capable than a cellphone camera, but if all you want to do is gram, a cellphone is a better choice. And you said my analogy was not good? that's what i said. choose the best tool for the job. Using Word and Excel is no harder to use for "simple" tasks as it to use a more basic wp or spreadsheet applications. It is just that Word and Excel offer a whole lot more should you need, or be inclined to learn how, to use its more advanced features. false. it's harder for simple tasks. most people don't need the more advanced features. their presence is not in any way an advantage and paying for them is a waste of money. Just because YOU have no idea how to use the MS apps for simple tasks does not mean it is not easy. I can assure you it is. ad hominem. whether i know how to use them is irrelevant. keep in mind that i've been using them longer than you have, since word/excel were available for macs before they were for windows. If senior citizens (among others), who have never touched a PC in their life, can get to grips with using the afforesead MS Office apps then it cannot be that hard. I know so, I used to teach it to them (after showing them the rudiments of using the PC first of course). that you need to teach them 'rudiments of using a pc' before even starting to teach word/excel is exactly why it's the wrong choice. they would need a lot less handholding using a mac, ipad or chromebook than with a pc, likely teaching you a few things. windows is *not* a universal solution to every computing task. choose the best tool for the job. word/excel are not the only options out there, despite microsoft forcing them down people's throats. people who want to use them certainly can, but they don't have to. Indeed. Not the only options by far. But they do have the most comprehensive feature list of any SS or WP software. For that you have to pay, I'm afraid. Although at about £50 a year (or equivalent dollars) for the entire Office suite it is hardly going to break the bank and will never be out of date. having the most features is not always a benefit, and if the additional features are not used, that money is wasted. also, macos can read/write word & excel files with no additional software required. windows can't. it can also read & write pdf, without any additional software. no need to buy acrobat. What you on about? You never did need to buy acrobat to read pdfs and most apps can now write pdfs as standard. 'most apps' ? pdf is the imaging model on macos and ios, it's part of the operating system itself, which means *any* app can read and write pdf, no additional software required, free or paid. that also means that any app which can print can print to pdf, also without any additional software, free or paid. the free acrobat is just a reader. to write, the paid version is required. other apps may claim to write pdf, but generally don't do a very good job. Also, all commonly used "alternative" WP and Spereadsheet apps can also read and write word and excel files as standard. on macos, that's also built into the operating system. |
#77
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:11:06 -0400, Neil
wrote: On 10/13/2018 7:51 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 16:34:00 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote: On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:08:22 GMT, "MC" wrote: nospam wrote: In article , Alan Browne wrote: The most reliable and stable OS I've ever used is Mac OS. Not perfect put miles above the ****pile of Windows. agreed, as are the vast majority of mac apps. MS Word and Excel are miles above Apple's offerings (with one exception) ----- [1] Can't speak about Powerpoint as I've never used Keynote. i wasn't talking specifically about those, however, apple's pages and numbers were never intended to be replacements for word/excel. they're designed for average users doing common tasks, whereas word/excel tries to be everything for everyone, and harder to use as a result. Nothing hard about Word or Excel. They are incredibly rich in features, but that doesn't mean one needs to use them initially to get work done. it's overkill for what most people want to do, as is photoshop for basic photo editing. sure, someone 'could' use it for simple stuff, but the average user would be lost. also, pages, numbers and keynote are free. word & excel are not. macs include a lot of stuff that windows requires people to pay extra for. The statement [1] was about what are the better apps. Word and Excel hands down. maybe for you, but not for everyone. I go to a supermarket to buy a loaf of bread. Just because the supermarket sells thousands of other products does not mean I have to buy them all so I can get my loaf of bread. Using Word and Excel is no harder to use for "simple" tasks as it to use a more basic wp or spreadsheet applications. It is just that Word and Excel offer a whole lot more should you need, or be inclined to learn how, to use its more advanced features. As for FREE? Open Office (and its various guises) is not to shabby when comparing itself to Microsoft offerings. It certainly out-does most, if not all, other free "office" based applications when it comes to features. MC I've used (almost) everything from WordStar and VisiCalc to current apps, and presently use Open Office for both text and spreadsheets. Now that I'm retired, my needs are simpler, and Open Office does everything I expect/need. "Better" is determined by a combination of criteria because "better" is a subjective user-defined term. In this case, Open Office is the better app for this user...it does what I need and there is no cost. For text, I personally rated WordPerfect as the better app, but when Corel took it over it went downhill faster than Jean-Claude Killy and crashed like Eddie the Eagle. That was at least partly due to the damage wreaked by Microsoft withholding the new revised Visual Basic from Wordperfect for six months in the days before Corel bought the the wreck. In effect Microsoft was able to hamstring their only significant competition while giving themselves a clear run. What happened after was not entirely Corel's fault. Those with more extensive experience with Corel know that they've screwed up every app they acquired. They wrecked Ventura Publisher to the point where it never worked as well as what they acquired. Ask XARA what they think of Corel, who pretty much pushed them into non-existence in a market where they once competed with Adobe. They even sidelined their own premier app, Draw, because of their insistence on using non-compliant PostScript code in a pitiful attempt to challenge Adobe's dominance. I could go on, but there isn't much point, is there? That kind of rot started with Michael Cowpland, the founder of the company. Nevertheless Microsoft did deliberately make things worse for Wordperfect by withholding the new Visual Basic for six months after they gave it to all other software houses. This was before Corel bought Wordperfect. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#78
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On Sat, 13 Oct 2018 20:57:16 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb stick. one need not know how to do that for backups to occur. Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk? automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special. Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups stored. either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is enable backups, which is trivial. They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow. there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done. My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB stick. I am sure she is not alone. that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion. Of course it has. sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with backups. In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a USB memory stick. I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks. what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people. Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind. that continues to improve, but for some reason, many people are fighting it. however, it does further the point that people incorrectly assume computers are hard to use, which requires technical skills and extensive training. For her, they are. Anything much beyond facebook or email is terra icognito. then you should have used facebook or email. you chose the wrong method and are blaming her. you should also have known that your own sister would not know what to do with a usb stick. why even send her one in the first place? Why should I? We have lived in different countries for 60 years. because she's your sister. Telepathy? it's one thing if you sent it to a random unknown person, but you should know that your sister would be confused with a usb stick full of photos. the easiest solution would have been to use photo sharing, then the photos would have appeared on her devices without her needing to do anything special, including an apple tv if she has one. another option would have been to email or text the photos, or upload them to a photo sharing site and then send her the links. it's not as simple or as elegant, but it would have worked. 4GB? doesn't matter, although texting would not be ideal. That's one point we agree upon. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#79
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow. there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done. My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB stick. I am sure she is not alone. that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion. Of course it has. sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with backups. In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a USB memory stick. automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is completely manual. I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks. what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people. Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind. it hasn't changed. |
#80
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 09:49:35 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow. there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done. My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB stick. I am sure she is not alone. that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion. Of course it has. sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with backups. In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a USB memory stick. automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is completely manual. Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up an automatic backup. I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks. what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people. Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind. it hasn't changed. Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
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