Photoshop CS issues

"Nicholas O. Lindan" a écrit dans le message de
ink.net...
"Philippe Boite" wrote

You always _pay_ for what you get, you have to, no one else will.


Not too difficult to pay a few programmers to update a driver for
millions
of customers you want to keep.

And where does that pay, whatever it's amount come, from?


HP is not supposed to lose money, I think. So they can reinvest a few bucks.

And what's this "millions of customers"? Try a few hundred.


HP printers having only a few hundred customers ?

--
Philippe Boite
http://philippe.boite.free.fr

"Philippe Boite"

And where does that pay, whatever it's amount come, from?
HP is not supposed to lose money, I think. So they can reinvest a few bucks.

Oh, come on. This is getting ludicrous. If money goes out, it has to
have gone in. A company gets money by selling products to the customer.

With a Marxist mind-set the view and rhetoric are different. On
this side of the pond, though, we (most of us) are not Marxist.

The money comes from customers. Point. Accounts receivable equals
accounts payable. No argument or dissension.

No point arguing any further.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

"Nicholas O. Lindan" a écrit dans le message de
ink.net...
"Philippe Boite"

And where does that pay, whatever it's amount come, from?
HP is not supposed to lose money, I think. So they can reinvest a few
bucks.

Oh, come on. This is getting ludicrous. If money goes out, it has to
have gone in. A company gets money by selling products to the customer.

With a Marxist mind-set the view and rhetoric are different. On
this side of the pond, though, we (most of us) are not Marxist.


Oh, I see.
You think I am a marxist because I have a .fr domain.
That's a bit simple, isn't it ?

The money comes from customers. Point. Accounts receivable equals
accounts payable. No argument or dissension.

Yes, money comes from customers, but the equation "accounts receivable
equals accounts payable" is a bit simplistic.
If you disgust customers with asking money for everything, you won't have
any customers anymore, and you will be out of business.
Printers manufacturers make money by selling inks and papers, not printers
or drivers updates.

--
Philippe Boite
http://philippe.boite.free.fr

"Philippe Boite"

You think I am a marxist because I have a .fr domain.
That's a bit simple, isn't it ?

I am trying to find some polite reason for your point of view.

The money comes from customers. Point. Accounts receivable equals
accounts payable. No argument or dissension.

Yes, money comes from customers

Ah, finally.

but the equation "accounts receivable
equals accounts payable" is a bit simplistic.

That's funny, it's the fundamental principle of accounting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting

And is an Italian invention, no less, so you don't have to worry it
is tainted with American Capitalist Greed or English Perfidy (though
we are pretty good at adding a topping of both).

If you disgust customers with asking money for everything, you won't have
any customers anymore, and you will be out of business.

If the customer is dumb enough to think he is getting it for 'free' and
is happy, why dissuade him? You are right: product support comes for free.
"Don't Worry - Be Happy!"

Printers manufacturers make money by selling inks and papers, not printers
or drivers updates.

Ever had a computer manufacturer for a client? Ever worked in a business
where the money is made from the disposables? I'll give you a few hints: they
don't lose money on _anything_ sold, and profit margin on the device and the
disposable are pretty much the same.

Don't be so quick...

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:


but the equation "accounts receivable
equals accounts payable" is a bit simplistic.

That's funny, it's the fundamental principle of accounting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting

I have to ask. How is A/R equals A/P a principle of accounting? Other then
by accident how often does it happen?

Nick

"Nicholas O. Lindan" a écrit dans le message de
ink.net...

Ever had a computer manufacturer for a client? Ever worked in a business
where the money is made from the disposables? I'll give you a few hints:
they
don't lose money on _anything_ sold, and profit margin on the device and
the
disposable are pretty much the same.

Don't be so quick...


Here in marxist France, you can get a phone cell for one euro. Don't tell me
it's the real price.
Cellphone companies make their money from the monthly fees.
Got it ? It's more or less the same for printers.
Some printers cost less than the ink cartridge in it.

--
Philippe Boite
http://philippe.boite.free.fr

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:20:50 +0100, "Philippe Boite"
wrote:


"Nicholas O. Lindan" a écrit dans le message de
link.net...

Ever had a computer manufacturer for a client? Ever worked in a business
where the money is made from the disposables? I'll give you a few hints:
they
don't lose money on _anything_ sold, and profit margin on the device and
the
disposable are pretty much the same.

Don't be so quick...


Here in marxist France, you can get a phone cell for one euro. Don't tell me
it's the real price.
Cellphone companies make their money from the monthly fees.
Got it ? It's more or less the same for printers.
Some printers cost less than the ink cartridge in it.

The cost of the cell phone is factored into the monthly rates charged.
If you paid $121 for the phone and $20/month base fee or $1 for the
phone and $30/month base fee, it still comes out the same over a year.
The cost of the "low-ball" printer is factored into the charge of the
consumables. Similar to grocers using a loss leader to get you in the
store. Don't know if this is applicable in France. Could be price
controls or government subsidies that effect the price.

Later,
Rob

"Nick Zentena" wrote
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Somebody in France wrote:
but the equation "accounts receivable
equals accounts payable" is a bit simplistic.

That's funny, it's the fundamental principle of accounting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting

I have to ask. How is A/R equals A/P a principle of accounting?

Naked ye come, Naked ye go.

What goes in must come out - what comes out has to have gone in.

By the definition of what a/r (input and pending input) and a/p
(output and pending output) are.

Other then by accident how often does it happen?

It happens always. Every time. If it doesn't then someone
is stealing from the pot and not jiggering the books to cover
for it (or there is an error in the books).

Look at the balance sheet of any annual report:

$0.00 = assets - liabilities - shareholder equity

Shareholder equity is how much is owed to stockholders -
what they would get if the firm was liquidated.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:


Naked ye come, Naked ye go.

What goes in must come out - what comes out has to have gone in.

By the definition of what a/r (input and pending input) and a/p
(output and pending output) are.

Other then by accident how often does it happen?

It happens always. Every time. If it doesn't then someone
is stealing from the pot and not jiggering the books to cover
for it (or there is an error in the books).

Look at the balance sheet of any annual report:

$0.00 = assets - liabilities - shareholder equity

Shareholder equity is how much is owed to stockholders -
what they would get if the firm was liquidated.


I think you need to understand that A/P and A/R are not at all related to
each other. A/P is the amount of money owed in the near term. Usually trade
payables. A/R is the amount of money that you are owed. Also usually trade
receivable. A gas bar that does most of it's money in cash will have no A/R.
A business that pays for it's inputs in cash up front will have no A/P. A
company that takes out a long term loan to buy inventory will have most of
it's debt not in A/P but in longer term paper.

Share holders equity is a bit of accounting fiction. It represents the
historical cost of things. It rarely equals the liquation value. Hopefully
the company is worth more but liquations are not always done at book value.


If you're trying to say the money coming in must equal the money going
out. In the long term I hope the money coming in is greater then the money
going out.


Nick

"Nick Zentena" wrote

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

By the definition of what a/r (input and pending input) and a/p
(output and pending output) are.

Other then by accident how often does it happen?

It happens always. Every time. If it doesn't then someone
is stealing from the pot and not jiggering the books to cover
for it (or there is an error in the books).

Look at the balance sheet of any annual report:

$0.00 = assets - liabilities - shareholder equity

Shareholder equity is how much is owed to stockholders -
what they would get if the firm was liquidated.


I think you need to understand that A/P and A/R are not at all related to
each other.

You are right: I am playing fast and loose with the terms: assets and
liabilities and equity always balance. And I am mixing them
in with cash flow: a/p + $ out == a/r + $ in, with
dividends, retained earnings and all that thrown in, ignored and
misplaced for good measure.

Dug myself a pit. Should have stuck with cash-based.

Share holders equity is a bit of accounting fiction. It represents the
historical cost of things. It rarely equals the liquation value. Hopefully
the company is worth more.

Agreed - it's the _computed_ value of the firm. What the firm is worth
is what it is sold for and that is what the buyer is willing to pay:
maybe more or maybe less than its true worth - in the 80's it was often
less.

If you're trying to say the money coming in must equal the money going
out. In the long term I hope the money coming in is greater then the money
going out.

But yes: when the company is all over and done with and all that is left is
a plot of contaminated land the money that went in is equal to the money
that went out.

In a given period in a cash system in = out + the change in cash-on-hand
(equity). Money is conserved (unless you are the mint).

What started this whole mess was arguing that the cost of product
support does not come from a money tree, it comes out of the revenue
stream from sales to customers: i.e. the (or some) customer always
pays. He may not know how he is paying or what he is paying, but
he is paying.

I take it I have been caught stumbling over this pons asinorum by an
accountant?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/