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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
Hi:
I. Audio vs. Video Digitized (mono) audio has a single sample per each sampling interval. In the case of digital video, we could treat each individual sample point location in the sampling grid (each pixel position in a frame) the same way as if it was a sample from an individual (mono) audio signal that continues on the same position in the next frame. For example, a 640×480 pixel video stream shot at 30 fps would be treated mathematically as if it consisted of 307200 parallel, individual mono audio streams [channels] at a 30 Hz sample rate. Where does bit- resolution enter the equation? Digital linear PCM audio has the following components: 1. Sample rate [44.1 KHz for CD audio] 2. Channels [2 in stereo, 1 in monaural] 3. Bit-resolution [16-bit for CD audio] Sample rate in audio = frame rate in video Channel in audio = pixel in video Bit-resolution in audio = ? in video Is it true that unlike the-frequency-of-audio, the-frequency-of-video has two components -- temporal and spatial? AFAIK, the-frequency-of-audio only has a temporal component. Do I guess right? II. Digital vs. Analog Sample-rate is a digital entity. In a digital audio device, the sample- rate must be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the digital audio signal. What is the analog-equivalent of sample-rate? In an analog audio device, does this equivalent need to be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the analog audio signal? If not, then what is the minimum frequency that the analog-equivalent-of-sample- rate must be in relation to the analog audio signal? III. My Requests: No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am really interested in this. Thanks for your assistance, cooperation, and understanding, Radium |
#2
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
Radium wrote:
Hi: I. Audio vs. Video Digitized (mono) audio has a single sample per each sampling interval. In the case of digital video, we could treat each individual sample point location in the sampling grid (each pixel position in a frame) the same way as if it was a sample from an individual (mono) audio signal that continues on the same position in the next frame. For example, a 640×480 pixel video stream shot at 30 fps would be treated mathematically as if it consisted of 307200 parallel, individual mono audio streams [channels] at a 30 Hz sample rate. Where does bit- resolution enter the equation? Digital linear PCM audio has the following components: 1. Sample rate [44.1 KHz for CD audio] 2. Channels [2 in stereo, 1 in monaural] 3. Bit-resolution [16-bit for CD audio] Sample rate in audio = frame rate in video Channel in audio = pixel in video Bit-resolution in audio = ? in video Is it true that unlike the-frequency-of-audio, the-frequency-of-video has two components -- temporal and spatial? No. Video is converted to a linear data stream corresponding (roughly) to scan lines. The color and brightness information is split apart and converted into parallel data streams. Compression for digital video may group areas of the image and/or eliminate some of the color components. II. Digital vs. Analog Sample-rate is a digital entity. In a digital audio device, the sample- rate must be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the digital audio signal. What is the analog-equivalent of sample-rate? There is no sampling in analog so there is no sampling rate. -- Ray Fischer |
#3
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message ... Radium wrote: Hi: I. Audio vs. Video Digitized (mono) audio has a single sample per each sampling interval. In the case of digital video, we could treat each individual sample point location in the sampling grid (each pixel position in a frame) the same way as if it was a sample from an individual (mono) audio signal that continues on the same position in the next frame. For example, a 640×480 pixel video stream shot at 30 fps would be treated mathematically as if it consisted of 307200 parallel, individual mono audio streams [channels] at a 30 Hz sample rate. Where does bit- resolution enter the equation? Digital linear PCM audio has the following components: 1. Sample rate [44.1 KHz for CD audio] 2. Channels [2 in stereo, 1 in monaural] 3. Bit-resolution [16-bit for CD audio] Sample rate in audio = frame rate in video Channel in audio = pixel in video Bit-resolution in audio = ? in video Is it true that unlike the-frequency-of-audio, the-frequency-of-video has two components -- temporal and spatial? No. Video is converted to a linear data stream corresponding (roughly) to scan lines. The color and brightness information is split apart and converted into parallel data streams. Compression for digital video may group areas of the image and/or eliminate some of the color components. II. Digital vs. Analog Sample-rate is a digital entity. In a digital audio device, the sample- rate must be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the digital audio signal. What is the analog-equivalent of sample-rate? There is no sampling in analog so there is no sampling rate. -- Ray Fischer You might want to check into the posting history of "Radium". Luck; Ken |
#4
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
Radium wrote:
Hi: I. Audio vs. Video Digitized (mono) audio has a single sample per each sampling interval. Yes. several bits per sample, many samples per second. In the case of digital video, we could treat each individual sample point location in the sampling grid (each pixel position in a frame) the same way as if it was a sample from an individual (mono) audio signal that continues on the same position in the next frame. For example, a 640�480 pixel video stream shot at 30 fps would be treated mathematically as if it consisted of 307200 parallel, individual mono audio streams [channels] at a 30 Hz sample rate. Where does bit- resolution enter the equation? It might actually make sense to look at it that way in some situations, but I'll bet you can't think of one. As for bit resolution, what does that term mean to you? I think it means the number of bits used to represent each sample, whatever the situation. Digital linear PCM audio has the following components: 1. Sample rate [44.1 KHz for CD audio] One particular kind of audio. Common uncompressed audio rates range from 8 to 96 KHz. 2. Channels [2 in stereo, 1 in monaural] Up to 5 in home theater systems. 3. Bit-resolution [16-bit for CD audio] So you do know what the term means. Why did you ask then? Easier than thinking? Sample rate in audio = frame rate in video Bull****. Channel in audio = pixel in video Bull****. Bit-resolution in audio = ? in video Bit resolution. Is it true that unlike the-frequency-of-audio, the-frequency-of-video has two components -- temporal and spatial? Good question. The signal has a frequency spectrum. A still image has a spatial spectrum. A video signal represents a series of still images. AFAIK, the-frequency-of-audio only has a temporal component. Do I guess right? Yes, until the sound gets into a room. then it has a spatial element too. Think reflections and standing waves. II. Digital vs. Analog Sample-rate is a digital entity. In a digital audio device, the sample- rate must be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the digital audio signal. What is the analog-equivalent of sample-rate? In an analog audio device, does this equivalent need to be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the analog audio signal? If not, then what is the minimum frequency that the analog-equivalent-of-sample- rate must be in relation to the analog audio signal? There are no samples in an analog system, so there is no sample rate. III. My Requests: No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am really interested in this. Look, guy: you could probably read by the time you were three years old. Bully for you! (Precocious reading is almost a /sine qua non/ of Asperger's.) I have news for you: growing up _doesn't_ mean that one stops reading. Get a good book or read some of the on-line material collected at http://www.dspguru.com/ and learn the basics of your interest. Above all, stop guessing and extrapolating from an erroneous model that you dreamed up from partial information. You may be smart in some ways, but if you were wise, you would know that your believing something doesn't make it real. As for those snide remarks you want to deflect, you earned them with your pig-headed pursuit of arrant nonsense. I'm willing to start over, but I expect you to shape up. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ |
#5
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
On Aug 19, 2:50 pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Radium wrote: Hi: I. Audio vs. Video Digitized (mono) audio has a single sample per each sampling interval. In the case of digital video, we could treat each individual sample point location in the sampling grid (each pixel position in a frame) the same way as if it was a sample from an individual (mono) audio signal that continues on the same position in the next frame. For example, a 640×480 pixel video stream shot at 30 fps would be treated mathematically as if it consisted of 307200 parallel, individual mono audio streams [channels] at a 30 Hz sample rate. Where does bit- resolution enter the equation? Digital linear PCM audio has the following components: 1. Sample rate [44.1 KHz for CD audio] 2. Channels [2 in stereo, 1 in monaural] 3. Bit-resolution [16-bit for CD audio] Sample rate in audio = frame rate in video Channel in audio = pixel in video Bit-resolution in audio = ? in video Is it true that unlike the-frequency-of-audio, the-frequency-of-video has two components -- temporal and spatial? No. Video is converted to a linear data stream corresponding (roughly) to scan lines. The color and brightness information is split apart and converted into parallel data streams. Okay. So a digital video device with greater bit-resolution can allow for more levels of luminance? What is the video-equivalent of bit-resolution? Compression for digital video may group areas of the image and/or eliminate some of the color components. Does compression also eliminate some of the brightness components? II. Digital vs. Analog Sample-rate is a digital entity. In a digital audio device, the sample- rate must be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the digital audio signal. What is the analog-equivalent of sample-rate? There is no sampling in analog so there is no sampling rate. There is no analog-equivalent of sample-rate? Then what the limits the highest frequency an analog audio device can encode? What determines the highest frequency signal an analog solid-state audio device can input without distortion? Analog solid-state audio device = a purely analog electronic device that can record, store, playback, and process audio signals without needing any moving parts. The above device inputs the electrical signals generated by an attached microphone. These electric signals are AC and represent the sound in "electronic" form. Sound with a higher-frequency will generate a faster-alternating current than sound with a lower- frequency. A louder sound will generate an alternating-current with a bigger peak-to-peak wattage than a softer soft. What mathematically determines the highest-frequency electric signal such a device can intake without distortion? |
#7
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
On Aug 19, 4:39 pm, Jerry Avins wrote:
Radium wrote: In the case of digital video, we could treat each individual sample point location in the sampling grid (each pixel position in a frame) the same way as if it was a sample from an individual (mono) audio signal that continues on the same position in the next frame. For example, a 640?480 pixel video stream shot at 30 fps would be treated mathematically as if it consisted of 307200 parallel, individual mono audio streams [channels] at a 30 Hz sample rate. Where does bit- resolution enter the equation? It might actually make sense to look at it that way in some situations, but I'll bet you can't think of one. This would be a start if I want to decrease the frequency of a video signal without decreasing the playback speed. The application here is to change the frequency of the video signal without altering the frame-rate, sample-rate, or tempo of the video signal. This is like changing the pitch of audio on playback without modifying the sample-rate or playback speed. Adobe Audition provides this affect. Using this software, you can also change the tempo of a song without affecting the pitch. As for bit resolution, what does that term mean to you? I think it means the number of bits used to represent each sample, whatever the situation. Same here. In audio, a greater bit-resolution provides more levels of loudness that a smaller bit-resolution. In video, what does a greater bit-resolution provide that a smaller bit-resolution doesn't? More levels of light intensity? More colors? I am just guessing. Digital linear PCM audio has the following components: 3. Bit-resolution [16-bit for CD audio] So you do know what the term means. Yes. I know what it means. However, I don't know what its video- equivalent is? II. Digital vs. Analog Sample-rate is a digital entity. In a digital audio device, the sample- rate must be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the digital audio signal. What is the analog-equivalent of sample-rate? In an analog audio device, does this equivalent need to be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the analog audio signal? If not, then what is the minimum frequency that the analog-equivalent-of-sample- rate must be in relation to the analog audio signal? There are no samples in an analog system, so there is no sample rate. Okay. Then what is the analog-equivalent of a "sample"? The analog-equivalent of bit-resolution = dynamic range The analog-equivalent of sample rate = ? http://www.dspguru.com/ Thanks for the link |
#8
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
Radium wrote:
... Okay. So a digital video device with greater bit-resolution can allow for more levels of luminance? Ir color differentiation. Or both. \ What is the video-equivalent of bit-resolution? Bit resolution. ... There is no analog-equivalent of sample-rate? Then what the limits the highest frequency an analog audio device can encode? The capabilities of the transmission and recording media. What determines the highest frequency signal an analog solid-state audio device can input without distortion? Distortion, in the commonly used sense is immaterial. On a phonograph disk, high frequencies are limited by the ability of the cutting stylus to move rapidly, of the playback stylus to stay in the groove at high acceleration, and of the microphone to capture the sound. Analog solid-state audio device = a purely analog electronic device that can record, store, playback, and process audio signals without needing any moving parts. Oh? Just what would the record consist of? The above device inputs the electrical signals generated by an attached microphone. These electric signals are AC and represent the sound in "electronic" form. Sound with a higher-frequency will generate a faster-alternating current than sound with a lower- frequency. A louder sound will generate an alternating-current with a bigger peak-to-peak wattage than a softer soft. All true. How to you record it with no moving parts? Even a microphone has a moving diaphragm. You must like the taste of your foot. You keep putting it in your mouth. What mathematically determines the highest-frequency electric signal such a device can intake without distortion? Distortion (as the term is commonly meant unless otherwise qualified) entails harmonics which have higher frequencies than that which is distorted. Near a system's upper frequency limit, harmonic distortion is impossible. There is no mathematical limit to an analog system's frequency response; the limit is physical. One can understand purely digital systems with mathematics alone. Analog systems are messier by far. You actually have to understand how real-world things behave in order to deal with them. Purely digital systems have relatively little use. All of our senses are analog. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ |
#9
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
Radium wrote:
On Aug 19, 4:39 pm, Jerry Avins wrote: Radium wrote: In the case of digital video, we could treat each individual sample point location in the sampling grid (each pixel position in a frame) the same way as if it was a sample from an individual (mono) audio signal that continues on the same position in the next frame. For example, a 640?480 pixel video stream shot at 30 fps would be treated mathematically as if it consisted of 307200 parallel, individual mono audio streams [channels] at a 30 Hz sample rate. Where does bit- resolution enter the equation? It might actually make sense to look at it that way in some situations, but I'll bet you can't think of one. This would be a start if I want to decrease the frequency of a video signal without decreasing the playback speed. Various compression schemes do that with varying degrees of resulting quality. The application here is to change the frequency of the video signal without altering the frame-rate, sample-rate, or tempo of the video signal. This is like changing the pitch of audio on playback without modifying the sample-rate or playback speed. No it's like compressing the bit rate; MP3, for example. Adobe Audition provides this affect. Using this software, you can also change the tempo of a song without affecting the pitch. As for bit resolution, what does that term mean to you? I think it means the number of bits used to represent each sample, whatever the situation. Same here. In audio, a greater bit-resolution provides more levels of loudness that a smaller bit-resolution. In video, what does a greater bit-resolution provide that a smaller bit-resolution doesn't? More levels of light intensity? More colors? I am just guessing. Both Digital linear PCM audio has the following components: 3. Bit-resolution [16-bit for CD audio] So you do know what the term means. Yes. I know what it means. However, I don't know what its video- equivalent is? II. Digital vs. Analog Sample-rate is a digital entity. In a digital audio device, the sample- rate must be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the digital audio signal. What is the analog-equivalent of sample-rate? In an analog audio device, does this equivalent need to be at least 2x the highest intended frequency of the analog audio signal? If not, then what is the minimum frequency that the analog-equivalent-of-sample- rate must be in relation to the analog audio signal? There are no samples in an analog system, so there is no sample rate. Okay. Then what is the analog-equivalent of a "sample"? There is none. The analog-equivalent of bit-resolution = dynamic range The analog-equivalent of sample rate = ? Bandwidth. http://www.dspguru.com/ Thanks for the link Use it. Get facts and stop reasoning from false analogies. If you want to know how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, build a better microscope. Aquinas can't tell you, and you can't deduce the answer. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ |
#10
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Questions about equivalents of audio/video and digital/analog.
On Aug 19, 5:55 pm, Jerry Avins wrote:
Radium wrote: Okay. So a digital video device with greater bit-resolution can allow for more levels of luminance? Ir color differentiation. Or both. Huh? The above device inputs the electrical signals generated by an attached microphone. These electric signals are AC and represent the sound in "electronic" form. Sound with a higher-frequency will generate a faster-alternating current than sound with a lower- frequency. A louder sound will generate an alternating-current with a bigger peak-to-peak wattage than a softer soft. All true. How to you record it with no moving parts? Other than the microphone [obviously], why does there need to be any moving parts? If a digital audio device can play audio back without any moving parts, why can't an analog audio device be designed to do the same? The device below is *not* analog. It uses sampling so its digital: http://www.winbond-usa.com/mambo/content/view/36/140/ I'm curious to why there are no purely-analog devices which can record, store, and playback electric audio signals [AC currents at least 20 Hz but no more than 20,000 Hz] without having moving parts. Most of those voice recorders that use chips [i.e. solid-state] are digital. Analog voice recorders, OTOH, use cassettes [an example of "moving parts"]. |
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