Apple is purchasing Twitter analytics firm

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Loss of privacy is not easily solved.
|
| Can you name an iPhone app that doesn't retain your current location.

You're out of luck if you want the convenience of
"location services" on your phone.

no he isn't out of luck at all.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/go...-program-2013-
11

The gist of it is that they use that service as
an excuse to make you agree to constant tracking.

if you have a problem with it, don't use the service.

location by itself is not bad. if an app does something you don't like,
don't use the app. very simple.

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 23:41:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Loss of privacy is not easily solved.
|
| Can you name an iPhone app that doesn't retain your current location.

You're out of luck if you want the convenience of
"location services" on your phone.

no he isn't out of luck at all.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/go...-program-2013-
11

The gist of it is that they use that service as
an excuse to make you agree to constant tracking.

if you have a problem with it, don't use the service.

location by itself is not bad. if an app does something you don't like,
don't use the app. very simple.

My understanding is that all cell phones are tracked by the cell phone
network. I've also been told, though I don't know how reliably, that
they are even tracked when they are supposedly turned off.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

| My understanding is that all cell phones are tracked by the cell phone
| network. I've also been told, though I don't know how reliably, that
| they are even tracked when they are supposedly turned off.

They have to send periodic check-ins to a tower
in order to be able to receive a call. Triangulation between
towers provides location. But there's a distinction
between in-use and on (able to receive a call). If you
can receive a call, the phone is on and is checking in.
People have actually posted location tracking maps
online for their iPhones, showing where they go over
a period of days. Apple stores that data on the phone.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/iphone-tracks/

I have a Tracphone that I use pretty much as a portable
phone booth. I don't need to receive calls very often and
have no interest in going online from a phone. So I normally
leave the phone turned off. In that state it's not checking
in, not being tracked, and the battery seems to go for weeks,
maybe months, without a recharge.

The location services issue is a separate thing, about
using a scam excuse to trick you into giving legal permission
to companies allowing them to collect and exploit your
location data. (Having the data on your phone, and having
your phone company access it, is a separate issue from
Google, Apple, and apps companies rifling through it.
Those companies have no business accessing your phone
data in the first place.)

I wouldn't trust Google, Apple, etc. not to be sending
all of my location tracking data to marketers, the NSA, or
any other "Tom, Dick or Harry" who's willing to pay them for
it. That's pretty much what they've already been confirmed
to be doing. The article I linked above, in my last post, is
about Google using location-related ads in real time. (The
implications are really quite stunning. We're reaching a point
where these companies know your location, your email, your
phone calls, perhaps your Facebook postings....and Apple
suggests that you link your Twitter account to Siri. It wouldn't
be farfetched to get ads so personalized that you receive
an ad for the restaurant around the corner just as you're
starting to feel hungry.)

Whether you're a cow being milked in the vast "consumer"
herd managed by the unbridled corporatocracy, or whether
you're a lucky duck who's getting personally tailored lifestyle
information, depends on your view. But either way it's clear
that there's not much in the way of legal protection in terms
of privacy. The town square is full of snake oil salesmen and
flim-flam men, while the marshall is being wined and dined
down at the saloon by lobbyists.

The issue about location services has been in the tech news
several times lately. As I understand it, both Apple and
Google are using the same approach: It's a bit extreme to
track you all the time, and if the marshall (or a few congressmen...
or the current corporate-slanted Supreme Court) ever decides
to actually do his job then there might be lawsuits.
(Worse for Google and Apple, there might be further public
education about what they're doing.) So to be on the safe side
they use a scam technique to officially get your permission. In
the terms you "accept" to use location services, you must agree
to the tracking. (Probably most people have no idea they agreed
to such a thing.) Since most people want maps on their
phones, most people have technically agreed to have a
tracking collar for use with targetted ads.

(It gets worse. Recently LG admitted to spying on people
while they watch an LG TV, even when people have found
the setting to turn off such spying and chosen to do so:

http://www.ibtimes.com/lg-admits-sma...ection-1484670
)

I actually wrote a program myself to get Google maps/
satellite/streetview/directions on Windows. I did it partly out of
curiosity and partly because I don't like to enable javascript
online, and maps don't work without javascript. My program
only runs on Windows, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone
has written a little utility for general use. Google allows
anonymous access to their maps, and they provide clear
docs online about how to get maps. Once you know how
it works, all you need to do is to construct a URL detailing
location, zoom level, type of map, etc. Someone could
easily create such a utility as a local webpage running in a
browser on a phone. The link could then open a new window,
which would display the map you've asked for.

https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/

In that usage Google should only be getting your IP
address and you don't need to enable location services.
But even then it's hard to know what's happening. Kindles,
for instances, go through an Amazon proxy site for all
browser activity. So presumably Amazon is watching.
And browsers that are allowed to provide unsafe website
data will send all of your URLs to Microsoft (IE) or
Google. (I think both Chrome and Firefox send to Google,
but I really don't have experience with Chrome.)

As nospam says, one doesn't have to agree to all
these things, which is one of the classic ostrich retorts.
Unfortunately, it's very difficult to know and understand
what one has agreed to, much less what the implications
are. And given the tactics used, it's difficult to use any
service -- even a basic cellphone -- without "agreeing"
to these intrusions. And then there are children,
who are helplessly mesmerized by all of these trinkets
and have no capacity to even understand the implications
of their lives being tracked. (Awhile back Facebook got
bad press because they were scamming "agreements"
from children with words something like, "By clicking here
you acknowledge that if you are under 18 a parent has
approved this action."

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

My understanding is that all cell phones are tracked by the cell phone
network.

the cellphone network obviously has to know where your phone is to
route calls to it.

that information can be queried by law enforcement. sometimes it's for
a thug on the run and other times it's for a missing person.

it also has absolutely nothing to do with apps getting location
information.

I've also been told, though I don't know how reliably, that
they are even tracked when they are supposedly turned off.

nothing can be tracked when it's off. that's what off means.

think about it.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| My understanding is that all cell phones are tracked by the cell phone
| network. I've also been told, though I don't know how reliably, that
| they are even tracked when they are supposedly turned off.

They have to send periodic check-ins to a tower
in order to be able to receive a call. Triangulation between
towers provides location. But there's a distinction
between in-use and on (able to receive a call). If you
can receive a call, the phone is on and is checking in.
People have actually posted location tracking maps
online for their iPhones, showing where they go over
a period of days. Apple stores that data on the phone.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/iphone-tracks/

you don't understand that any more than you do anything else.

apple does not store a user's tracks.

what they store is a subset of wifi location data, which may include
your tracks as well as that of others. it's also anonymized and it's
also encrypted. the reason they do that is for wifi geolocating, and
it's a lot faster to have a subset of that data cached on your phone
than hit the network (which may not be available) to find it.

users like it when their map application shows where they are instantly
versus several seconds later.

but when have facts mattered to you.

I have a Tracphone that I use pretty much as a portable
phone booth. I don't need to receive calls very often and
have no interest in going online from a phone. So I normally
leave the phone turned off. In that state it's not checking
in, not being tracked, and the battery seems to go for weeks,
maybe months, without a recharge.

that's nice.

The location services issue is a separate thing, about
using a scam excuse to trick you into giving legal permission
to companies allowing them to collect and exploit your
location data.

it's not a scam excuse. there are benefits to the user. they can choose
whether the benefits are worth providing location information. some do
and some don't.

you are also assuming that by letting an app get your location, it's
automatically uploaded to be data mined. most of the time it isn't, and
on the occasions it is, it's anonymized and aggregated. a developer
might see that sales are high in france and not italy, for instance.
that tells him nothing about an individual person.

you assume that companies do nothing but track people and that everyone
is a moron and incapable of making a choice on their own.

(Having the data on your phone, and having
your phone company access it, is a separate issue from
Google, Apple, and apps companies rifling through it.
Those companies have no business accessing your phone
data in the first place.)

they don't access anyone's data. the user may decide to put some of it
in the cloud, which is a decision made by the user. they can also
encrypt it if they want.

at no point do companies reach into your phone and 'rifle through it'.

I wouldn't trust Google, Apple, etc. not to be sending
all of my location tracking data to marketers, the NSA, or
any other "Tom, Dick or Harry" who's willing to pay them for
it. That's pretty much what they've already been confirmed
to be doing.

of course you wouldn't. the reality is that they don't.

The article I linked above, in my last post, is
about Google using location-related ads in real time. (The
implications are really quite stunning. We're reaching a point
where these companies know your location, your email, your
phone calls, perhaps your Facebook postings....

you don't have to use those services if you're that paranoid.

and Apple
suggests that you link your Twitter account to Siri.

that's so you can tweet by speaking.

It wouldn't
be farfetched to get ads so personalized that you receive
an ad for the restaurant around the corner just as you're
starting to feel hungry.)

some people would find that to be a plus. if you like fine italian food
and there's a well known italian place nearby, you might want to know
that.

if you don't want that, don't use the apps that do it.

very simple.

by the way, there have been billboards that change their message based
on the cars that are driving past it by picking up the local oscillator
of the car radio to determine what radio station they're listening to,
thereby getting an idea of the demographic so it knows what ads to
show.

Whether you're a cow being milked in the vast "consumer"
herd managed by the unbridled corporatocracy, or whether
you're a lucky duck who's getting personally tailored lifestyle
information, depends on your view.

yep. some people like it and others do not.

But either way it's clear
that there's not much in the way of legal protection in terms
of privacy. The town square is full of snake oil salesmen and
flim-flam men, while the marshall is being wined and dined
down at the saloon by lobbyists.

actually there is.

The issue about location services has been in the tech news
several times lately.

usually as link-bait.

As I understand it,

you forgot mis-

both Apple and
Google are using the same approach: It's a bit extreme to
track you all the time, and if the marshall (or a few congressmen...
or the current corporate-slanted Supreme Court) ever decides
to actually do his job then there might be lawsuits.
(Worse for Google and Apple, there might be further public
education about what they're doing.) So to be on the safe side
they use a scam technique to officially get your permission. In
the terms you "accept" to use location services, you must agree
to the tracking. (Probably most people have no idea they agreed
to such a thing.) Since most people want maps on their
phones, most people have technically agreed to have a
tracking collar for use with targetted ads.

once again, you're clueless.

using a map program or weather app doesn't mean they're tracking you.

(It gets worse. Recently LG admitted to spying on people
while they watch an LG TV, even when people have found
the setting to turn off such spying and chosen to do so:


http://www.ibtimes.com/lg-admits-sma...date-allowing-
customers-opt-out-data-collection-1484670
)

totally different issue.

I actually wrote a program myself to get Google maps/
satellite/streetview/directions on Windows. I did it partly out of
curiosity and partly because I don't like to enable javascript
online, and maps don't work without javascript. My program
only runs on Windows, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone
has written a little utility for general use. Google allows
anonymous access to their maps, and they provide clear
docs online about how to get maps. Once you know how
it works, all you need to do is to construct a URL detailing
location, zoom level, type of map, etc. Someone could
easily create such a utility as a local webpage running in a
browser on a phone. The link could then open a new window,
which would display the map you've asked for.

https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/

that would be a waste of time.

a much easier and better way is use a map view. much easier and far,
far more capable.

In that usage Google should only be getting your IP
address and you don't need to enable location services.
But even then it's hard to know what's happening. Kindles,
for instances, go through an Amazon proxy site for all
browser activity. So presumably Amazon is watching.

unless the user turns that off, and amazon says they use the data in
aggregate, not for tracking anyway.

And browsers that are allowed to provide unsafe website
data will send all of your URLs to Microsoft (IE) or
Google. (I think both Chrome and Firefox send to Google,
but I really don't have experience with Chrome.)

no.

As nospam says, one doesn't have to agree to all
these things, which is one of the classic ostrich retorts.
Unfortunately, it's very difficult to know and understand
what one has agreed to, much less what the implications
are. And given the tactics used, it's difficult to use any
service -- even a basic cellphone -- without "agreeing"
to these intrusions.

it's not that hard.

not everyone will understand it but that's not the fault of the
technology.

And then there are children,
who are helplessly mesmerized by all of these trinkets
and have no capacity to even understand the implications
of their lives being tracked.

how did the kid get the cellphone?

maybe you should blame the parents instead but that would not make for
a crazy rant.

(Awhile back Facebook got
bad press because they were scamming "agreements"
from children with words something like, "By clicking here
you acknowledge that if you are under 18 a parent has
approved this action."

why single out facebook? someone under 18 is not legally allowed to
consent to a lot of things.

On 12/4/2013 2:39 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

Can you name an iPhone app that doesn't retain your current location.

the majority of them, including the one i'm working on. there's no
point in retaining the current location because it continually changes.
that's why it's called *current* location.

if an app needs to know where you are, it will request your location,
assuming you give it permission to do so. the location is not
necessarily exact either. it depends on the app. it can be, but it
might just be a general area.

a weather app only needs to know what city you're in. on the other
hand, a navigation app would need to know your exact location,
otherwise, it won't be able to tell you when to turn.

it's very rare that the app would save the location, since the next
time it won't be the same. what would be the point?

some apps, such as weather, can save multiple cities, but those are
whatever you want and unrelated to where you actually are. they might
be on the other side of the planet.


I should have said smartphone mapping application.
The current location changes continually, unless of course the person id
sleeping, or dead.
I thought they track changes of current location.


--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I should have said smartphone mapping application.
The current location changes continually, unless of course the person id
sleeping, or dead.
I thought they track changes of current location.

some apps might, such as a navigation app.

apple doesn't track you, if that's what you're wondering.

On 12/5/2013 10:53 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I should have said smartphone mapping application.
The current location changes continually, unless of course the person id
sleeping, or dead.
I thought they track changes of current location.

some apps might, such as a navigation app.

apple doesn't track you, if that's what you're wondering.


I am not convinced by your unsupported statement. Even if it doesn't
now, it has tht capability.


--
PeterN

On 12/4/2013 3:41 PM, Sandman wrote:
In article , PeterN wrote:

nospam:
you made it seem like a big deal, neglecting to mention that it
was easily solved.

Loss of privacy is not easily solved.

Can you name an iPhone app that doesn't retain your current
location.

retain
continue to have (something); keep possession of:

Makes it sound like it's ok to get the location once, as long as it doesn't
retain it.

Either way, there are several navigation apps that will use your current
location, but are offline apps, meaning that all map data is in the app and
it doesn't send your location over the network.

TomTom is one I use, which is an offline mapping app, great one too.



Last time I looked, neither TomTom or Garmin was a smartphone app.
Hoever, interestingly enough, mapquest data can be sent to a Garmin
device, cars, (through OnStar.

--
PeterN

On 12/4/2013 4:02 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Sandman
wrote:

Can you name an iPhone app that doesn't retain your current
location.

retain
continue to have (something); keep possession of:

Makes it sound like it's ok to get the location once, as long as it doesn't
retain it.

Either way, there are several navigation apps that will use your current
location, but are offline apps, meaning that all map data is in the app and
it doesn't send your location over the network.

TomTom is one I use, which is an offline mapping app, great one too.

he asked if it retained your current location, not what it did with it.

there's no point in retaining your current location because in a short
time (possibly as quick as a few seconds for a navigation app), it will
be invalid, and it will need to request it again.


It doesn't request such information on a continuing basis. The app just
continues to use it. The problem is in the capability, not whether such
information is currently abused

--
PeterN