Old large format-Which One?

"Capt Nud" wrote in message
...
Hi guys,
I'm going to be doing some shooting in about a month or
so. I want the pictures
to look as if they were taken around 1920 to 1924. Any
(relatively) inexpensive
large-format or even medium-format cameras you would
suggest to help me achieve
this look? What kind of camera would a photographer from
this time period have
used?

Thanks

don

What sort of effect do you want to obtain? Are you after
something that looks like a studio portrait of the time, or
a snapshot, or something else? Knowing that would be helpful
in making suggestions. If you can suggest some examples of
the sort of thing you want.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Hi Richard, everyone,
I have access to some old planes, a real 1917 Curtiss Jenny, a 1924 Dehavilland
Dh-4 Mailplane that will be painted as one of the ones Lindbergh flew for
Robertson while in St Louis as well as some others (Local aviation museum.)

The models will be wearing period clothing. I want them, the pictures, to look
like Barnstormer/mail plane pilot pictures from the time.

I'm going to shoot them digitally also with my 10D, but I want to make some big
enlargements of actual photographic prints for the museum. I'm thinging of
getting either a Speed Graphic or Koni-Omega as all I have is 35mm.

Was planning on using Efke film and printing on warm-tome fiber based paper .

thanks for your interest...

don

"Capt Nud" wrote

I have access to some old planes, a real 1917 Curtiss Jenny,
a 1924 Dehavilland Dh-4 Mailplane ... models ... period clothing.

Ah, that's better, now we & I have some understanding of what you are
trying to do.

I want them, the pictures, to look like Barnstormer/mail plane
pilot pictures from the time.

I don't think I have ever seen a B.S./M.P. picture, so I am not
sure what the 'look' would be.

I'm thinging of
getting either a Speed Graphic or Koni-Omega as all I have is 35mm.

Was planning on using Efke film.

The film will make not a whit of difference. If you are going to hand
hold a Koni-Omega or Graphic then 400 is a good choice: you can then use
a fast shutter speed. Otherwise any old 100/125 is fine. Me, I shoot
TMX, TMY and deplete my remaining stocks of Plus-X Pro and Royal Pan. If I
were doing the shoot I in 4x5 I would use TMY, a speed graphic with flash
gun, synchronizer, blue filter and a #5 flash bulb: this is about the closest
you can get to a 1920's press outfit.

You can get a large-format look, smooth creamy grey tones
and complete absence of grain, with a 35mm loaded with tech pan.
With 5x7 prints you would need a loupe to tell the difference.

For lighting you are going to need to get hold of some #5 flashbulbs
and a flashgun. It was common practice then that news photographers
used flash under all circumstances. You still see that practice today
if you watch the newsies instead of the Prez. It keeps shadows out
of the eyes and lessens the chance of flubbing the exposure.

and printing on warm-tome fiber based paper .

In the mid 20's, from the pictures I have seen in the Cleveland
Art Museum Collection - the non-arty-farty ones - professional
photos are pretty much as they are now: blue/black image on bright
white paper.

The brown & cream look to pictures is Edwardian: late 1800's, early
1900's.

That doesn't mean you can't give them that fin-de-siecle look. How
many photography oriented art historians and archivists do you have
in your flying club?

Toning in Kodak Brown toner is the closest to getting a turn-of the
century brown: all prints were toned then, the brown doesn't come
from the emulsion. The motivation may have been to lessen fading
as print washing was pretty rudimentary back then.

The other key to an 1890's pic is to find a very buff paper stock.
You won't, though, so don't bother. They don't make buff stock any
more, which is why olde-tyme photos are dipped in tea as a final
rinse: to stain the _paper_ to a buff color.

But, being repetitive, this won't get you a true '20's look,
just an 'old picture' look.

Other age hints, though not historically correct: Use a _very_
slow shutter (15 seconds) so you get that hazy-eye look from folks
blinking; heads and hands will also get some motion blur - this is
1850's, but who's keeping track. You will need a lot of nd filters
to pull this off.

To complete the 1850's look you will need a very bad lens. Try
unscrewing the front or back element and see where that gets you.

To make it look like an old limited latitude film I would suggest blowing
the highlights and sky by overdodging when printing.

A blue filter will help keep the sky white (and shutter speeds long, heck
use two or three).

Thank you for your interest.

It sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Capt Nud wrote:
Hi Richard, everyone,
I have access to some old planes, a real 1917 Curtiss Jenny,
a 1924 Dehavilland
Dh-4 Mailplane that will be painted as one of the ones Lindbergh flew for
Robertson while in St Louis as well as some others (Local aviation museum.)

The models will be wearing period clothing. I want them, the pictures,
to look
like Barnstormer/mail plane pilot pictures from the time.

I think most of those circa 1920 pilot pictures were taken with
Graflex SLRs with colour blind plates or film. The camera
shouldn't be that important except that the reflex finder
made taking that kind of picture much easier than it would
have been with a view camera. You could probably get away
with making enlargements from a medium format negative.

You can get a lot of the look from a panchromatic film
plus a blue #47 filter. The filter factor of 6 will also
allow you to get similar aperture/shutter speed combinations
to those of the originals if you use 100 speed film.

Peter.
--

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
If I
were doing the shoot I in 4x5 I would use TMY, a speed graphic with flash
gun, synchronizer, blue filter and a #5 flash bulb: this is about the closest
you can get to a 1920's press outfit.

Flashbulbs were not commercially produced until around 1929,
synchronisers were rare before the mid-1930s.

For lighting you are going to need to get hold of some #5 flashbulbs
and a flashgun. It was common practice then that news photographers
used flash under all circumstances. You still see that practice today
if you watch the newsies instead of the Prez. It keeps shadows out
of the eyes and lessens the chance of flubbing the exposure.

This was common from the mid 1930s onwards, but in the early
1920s a Graflex SLR without flash would be expected for this
kind of picture.

Peter.
--

"Capt Nud" wrote in message
...
Hi Richard, everyone,
I have access to some old planes, a real 1917 Curtiss Jenny, a 1924
Dehavilland
Dh-4 Mailplane that will be painted as one of the ones Lindbergh flew for
Robertson while in St Louis as well as some others (Local aviation
museum.)

The models will be wearing period clothing. I want them, the pictures, to
look
like Barnstormer/mail plane pilot pictures from the time.

I'm going to shoot them digitally also with my 10D, but I want to make
some big
enlargements of actual photographic prints for the museum. I'm thinging of
getting either a Speed Graphic or Koni-Omega as all I have is 35mm.

Was planning on using Efke film and printing on warm-tome fiber based
paper .

thanks for your interest...

don

If I were to perform the task you propose, I would choose my Koni Omega
mainly for the format. Actually the camera should matter least. The film
will! The film used in those days was primarily the ortho-chromatic
emulsion. This is marketed by Ilford today (I have not used the Ilford -
yet). It will render the sky white (as seen in those vintage photographs)
and anything red - black. I might try some experiments in processing also.
You might like a grainy appearance or not - your choice - depending on the
film and processing. Frankly, I like some of the recent photographs I have
seen produced with ortho film.

Another possibility is to use "normal" panchromatic film with a cyan filter.
This will give essentially the same look as ortho but they are rare these
days. A #47, blue filter will make really old looking images - not what I
would like, but you might. Try some of this experimentation and get back.

Truly, dr bob.

Peter is right the Graflex would be right for the period, as would a Top-handle
Speed Graphic, both of which have a focal plane shutter. Also any of the old
wood view cameras. A professional photographer of the period would probably be
using a 5x7 camera in the field, certainly at least a 4x5. Some would have used
an 8x10. Ortho film would have been the norm. Uncoated lenses as well. All of
these affected the look of the photos, contrary to what many have said in this
thread. You should still be able to find ortho film, though you may have to
import it yourself. Also the darkroom work would have to be appropriate to the
period. Quite a project, but it sounds like fun too.

By the time you move into the thirties only a few years later things had changed
a lot, flashbulbs, pancro film, Pre-anniversary Speed Graphic in 4x5 or 3x4
would be the most likely. Much easier to fake with modern equipment and materials.

Of course, this all depends upon just how authentic you want your photos to be.
It sounds like you want to go all the way. In that case the info above will
point you in the right direction.

--

Peter Irwin wrote:

Capt Nud wrote:

Hi Richard, everyone,
I have access to some old planes, a real 1917 Curtiss Jenny,
a 1924 Dehavilland
Dh-4 Mailplane that will be painted as one of the ones Lindbergh flew for
Robertson while in St Louis as well as some others (Local aviation museum.)

The models will be wearing period clothing. I want them, the pictures,
to look
like Barnstormer/mail plane pilot pictures from the time.


I think most of those circa 1920 pilot pictures were taken with
Graflex SLRs with colour blind plates or film.