Newby Question on Chemicals' shelf life...

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:03:51 -0700, Jed
wrote:

In article ,
"Dickless Cheney" wrote:
"Jed Savage" wrote in message

Oh... one more thing... and why can't I buy indicator stop-bath
online?

Who cares? Use vinegar, or Kosher salt.

Kosher salt? You're joking right?

I've heard of using vinegar... also citric acid from a grocery store.
Seems pointless though as stop bath is so cheap. The only reason I
would use anything "home-made" would be to get rid of odor.


nov1904 from Lloyd Erlick,

'Kosher salt' is a term invented by people like my
grandmother, whose English was limited but who knew
what they meant. Meat has to be put through a certain
procedure before being consumed, in order to be
considered Kosher (literally, 'clean', fit for human
consumption). Part of the procedure is rubbing the meat
with what my ancestors came to call Kosher salt. The
term was not meant to denote salt that is Kosher, but
salt that is used to render meat Kosher. Kosherizing
salt, as I used to joke with my mother. It was (and is)
sold in grocery stores and supermarkets in small
containers, often marked (you guessed it) Kosher salt.

Darkroom workers might be more familiar with the actual
scientific name for Kosher salt, which is citric acid.
I don't think my grandmother's vocabulary included
either 'citric' or 'acid'.

I wouldn't buy citric acid in this form for two
reasons: first, it is vastly overpriced in small
containers (I bought some for C$3.00 a kilogram, so
it's cheap, but I had to buy 25 kg to get that price),
and second, some brands of something as amorphously
termed as 'Kosher salt' might indeed turn out to be
salt (sodium chloride) that is considered Kosher.

Getting rid of odor in my darkroom has been a very
important activity for me.

At first I deleted acetic acid stop bath, because
citric acid makes an absolutely odorless solution. That
alone justifies its place in the darkroom, as far as
I'm concerned. I still like vinegar on my French fries,
but it's been many years since I liked that odor in my
darkroom. Over the long term I found several odors that
became abhorrent. Acetic acid is one, but sulfur
dioxide is by far my most detested (I'm sure sulfur
dioxide is the gas most people call 'fumes' in the
darkroom). Sulfur dioxide is generated by combining
sulfite and acid; I used to dribble both into my sink
practically under my nose, which sulfur dioxide bites.
So no more acid of any kind, no more smell.

Anything in the darkroom that I don't like is nothing
but an impediment to getting in there and doing my
work. Smell is a fatiguing factor, in my opinion.

In addition, if we want traditional darkroom activity
to survive, the next generation should get a good
impression when they visit someone's darkroom. If I
show some kids my darkroom when they come by with their
mothers for a portrait, I don't want Mom's nose getting
bitten by 'fumes'. Those kids probably wouldn't become
darkroomies.

regards,
--le


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In article ,
Lloyd Usenet-Erlick Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com wrote:

'Kosher salt' is a term invented by people like my
grandmother, whose English was limited but who knew
what they meant. Meat has to be put through a certain
procedure before being consumed, in order to be
considered Kosher (literally, 'clean', fit for human
consumption). Part of the procedure is rubbing the meat
with what my ancestors came to call Kosher salt. The
term was not meant to denote salt that is Kosher, but
salt that is used to render meat Kosher. Kosherizing
salt, as I used to joke with my mother. It was (and is)
sold in grocery stores and supermarkets in small
containers, often marked (you guessed it) Kosher salt.

Wait something isn't Kosher about all this:-)

In the Giant the sell big boxes of Kosher Salt (I know its
Kosher because it has Jewish star on it :-D

Anyway:

Its big crystals and is
sea salt that's been blessed by a Rabi.
So techanically its Kosher Salt as well?
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:09:11 -0500, Lloyd Usenet-Erlick Lloyd at
@the-wire. dot com wrote:


Darkroom workers might be more familiar with the actual
scientific name for Kosher salt, which is citric acid.
I don't think my grandmother's vocabulary included
either 'citric' or 'acid'.

This is news to me - will have to check out the kosher section in our
local store. In addition to darkroom work, I cook and bake quite a
bit - I buy Mortons kosher salt, which is indeed NaCl, with minimal
additives, and coursely ground. I also use an ingredient 'Sour Salt'
in some recipies which I believe is citric acid.

I believe that meat can be Koshered with either.

Mark

In article ,
Mark in Maine wrote:

I believe that meat can be Koshered with either.
Mark

Things used to be considered kosher if a rabbi blessed
them, now I seem IIRC that the manufacturers only have to
have a have a document stating that a rabbi somewhere endorses or
blesses the product. That is in order to call the item "kosher".

So theoritically if your brother is a Rabbi and he blesses your
camera you could have Kosher Kodachromes :-D
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:32:43 GMT, Gregory W Blank

...

Its big crystals and is
sea salt that's been blessed by a Rabi.
So techanically its Kosher Salt as well?


nov1904 from Lloyd Erlick,

I'd say that was table salt (sodium chloride or
whatever is in sea salt) that has been deemed Kosher
(blessed). This is why I wouldn't buy any such stuff
for the darkroom. The words Kosher salt don't really
have a consistent meaning if you want to apply
scientific darkroom principles rigourously in the
English language, or something equally wordy...

regards
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________


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On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:23:31 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

In article ,
Mark in Maine wrote:

I believe that meat can be Koshered with either.
Mark

Things used to be considered kosher if a rabbi blessed
them, now I seem IIRC that the manufacturers only have to
have a have a document stating that a rabbi somewhere endorses or
blesses the product. That is in order to call the item "kosher".

So theoritically if your brother is a Rabbi and he blesses your
camera you could have Kosher Kodachromes :-D


nov1904 from Lloyd Erlick,

Yes, I've read the same thing. I think it's because the
food industry has grown so much while the numbers of
rabbis are not so much greater than in the past. Of
course, those papers cost a fee, so no doubt there is
the good ol' profit motive.

The newsgroup tor.general (Toronto General) has an
interesting group of trolls and racists. Jew-bashing is
a favorite sport on this group (don't worry, lots of
others get fully equal bashing time) and this
subscription to blessings by Rabbi paid for by food
manufacturers is being called a Jew Tax. You see, Jews
are collecting a tax on all food everyone eats,
everywhere...

It's fascinating where the darkroom leads one, because
I first learned about this business in the course of
finding suppliers of raw chemicals for my darkroom.
Many common darkroom chemicals are also food, and as
such are listed in a thing called the Food and Chemical
Codex (FCC), which is put together by a number of
religions working together. I've purchased a few things
in twenty five kilo bags that were marked Kosher, and
Halal too if I recall correctly. I guess there's
Reagent grade, Technical grade, Photo grade, and ...
Kosher grade??

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________


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On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:04:37 GMT, Mark in Maine
wrote:

.... I buy Mortons kosher salt, which is indeed NaCl,
with minimal
additives, and coursely ground. I also use an ingredient 'Sour Salt'
in some recipies which I believe is citric acid.

I believe that meat can be Koshered with either.

Mark


nov1904 from Lloyd Erlick,

Yes, and I think that is where the confusion comes in.
My folks also used the term sour salts, and it seemed
synonymous with Kosher salt. There must be plenty of
later-generation Jews who have lost what little
specificity the words ever had. (My folks never
measured ingredients, never wrote down any recipes, and
never worked from a written recipe. And never knew the
correct words for the ingredients either. Does this
start to resemble a reason for a weirdo like me to take
to the darkroom??)

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________


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In article ,
Lloyd Usenet-Erlick Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com wrote:

The newsgroup tor.general (Toronto General) has an
interesting group of trolls and racists. Jew-bashing is
a favorite sport on this group (don't worry, lots of
others get fully equal bashing time) and this
subscription to blessings by Rabbi paid for by food
manufacturers is being called a Jew Tax. You see, Jews
are collecting a tax on all food everyone eats,
everywhere...

As I hope you know ,..I am very tolerant and really have no
race related issues, nor do I encourage them to form.
Its just some of the idiots I have trouble, with regardless
of denomination.

I guess there's
Reagent grade, Technical grade, Photo grade, and ...
Kosher grade??

Boy, I am I glad that not the case here,...that
would really put me in a pickle.

LOL.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Lloyd Usenet-Erlick Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com wrote:

subscription to blessings by Rabbi paid for by food
manufacturers is being called a Jew Tax. You see, Jews
are collecting a tax on all food everyone eats,
everywhere...


I don't think any blessing happens. It's more an inspector comes by and
makes sure everything is made to a certain standard. Around the holidays
you'll see the labels on many things that normally aren't labelled kosher.




Nick

If you use kosher salt as a stop bath, does that make the gelatin
in the paper kosher?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com