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#31
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
Pudentame wrote:
Compare the cost of the Hasselblad H and Mamiya ZD to the cost of their medium format film bodies. Supply and demand. Get the price down into the range where the film bodies were, and demand will pick up. That's true. However, I think it is also true to say that if a product satisfies a need no other product can, it will sell at a surprisingly high price. The Hasselblad H3D-39 uniquely satisfies a need for a 39 MP DSLR. While there will only be a (relatively) small number of people who need 39 MP, the camera will be profitable if those people are prepared to pay a high price. I just wondered how many people were in that position. |
#32
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
"Noons" wrote in message
... On Mar 10, 12:39 pm, "David J. Littleboy" wrote: the area of "FF", and so does have a theoretical advantage. It also turns out that MF lenses are razor sharp on 5D density digital sensors, so 24MP and higher images that are painfully sharp corner to corner are a piece of cake for MF digital. Anything 24MP and over in FF is going to be a stretch for even the best Nikkor or Canon lenses at anything other than f/8 or f/11. and at that density and stop-down, one will likely start to hit diffraction limits anyway... Nobody needs more than 64k of memory - Bill Gates I can never fill up a 5mg hard drive - me 1989. -- Peter |
#33
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
"Pudentame" wrote in message ... Dudley Hanks wrote: "Happy Traveler" wrote in message . .. I have a Spotmatic SPII -- still in good working order. It's a classic, but in spite of the catchy name, it only measures some sort of center-weighted average. Don't believe that the Spotmatic, or even its early 1980's successors (like the ME Super that I also have) ever did any more than that. On the other hand, film is a lot more tolerant of overexposure than digital, so spot measuring for highlights was not as big a deal as it is now... "Dudley Hanks" wrote in message news:IQGAj.69831$FO1.22055@edtnps82... Well, sort of. If my memory isn't too fuzzy, I think that they "said" they were going to make the first SLR with spot metering -- the Spotmatic. Pentax made a pre-production model according to its claims, but when it hit production the spot sensoring turned out to be a couple of sensors that really only read an average of the light in the viewfinder. I'm not sure if they later modified the spotmatic to actually use spot metering, or whether one of the other giants got it into production first. Yes, that is a classic. I read something on the net a while back that Pentax wants to revive the concept / name with a digital version. Have you heard anything about that? Take Good Care of Your Classic, Dudley Well, the K100D and K10D names were specifically meant to recall fond feelings many a photographer has for the K1000. One of the members of the Camera Club that Im president of uses the K10D and the results from it are excellent! McK. |
#34
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:44:22 +0000, Tony Polson
wrote: The Hasselblad H3D-39 uniquely satisfies a need for a 39 MP DSLR. While there will only be a (relatively) small number of people who need 39 MP, the camera will be profitable if those people are prepared to pay a high price. I just wondered how many people were in that position. Walk into non-photographer friend's home, and note the number of large, high-quality photographic prints. Then do the same for a small or medium-sized business. The H3D-39 is designed to create a gallery quality 18x24" print, or a very good quality 27x36". Currently, that size of print is not really in fashion for homes. In a business setting, you'll see the occasional founders' shot or team photograph, but even those are now more likely to appear on a webpage than on a wall. My _guess_ is that quite a few working pros have an occasional need to print at that size, but it's not enough to warrant the investment. Instead, they'll either look to rent an H3D or fall back to a film camera. In the last year, the two 24x30" prints I've made both came out of my 4x5" field camera. Of course, fashions could change next week. But if I was a pro, I wouldn't tie up my capital on that sort of bet. -- Michael Benveniste -- Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email address only to submit mail for evaluation. |
#35
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
Pudentame wrote:
Tony Polson wrote: Pudentame wrote: Compare the cost of the Hasselblad H and Mamiya ZD to the cost of their medium format film bodies. Supply and demand. Get the price down into the range where the film bodies were, and demand will pick up. That's true. However, I think it is also true to say that if a product satisfies a need no other product can, it will sell at a surprisingly high price. The Hasselblad H3D-39 uniquely satisfies a need for a 39 MP DSLR. While there will only be a (relatively) small number of people who need 39 MP, the camera will be profitable if those people are prepared to pay a high price. I just wondered how many people were in that position. I'm thinking *not enough* over the longer term. I think you're probably right. But it would be good to see some figures, to put the discussion in perspective. |
#36
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
"Dudley Hanks" wrote in message
news:nWCAj.74916$w57.63673@edtnps90... Back in the '60s, '70s and even into the '80s Pentax was right up there with Canon and Nikon. But, today, it seems like the company doesn't even get honourable mention in the brand wars. What happened? They did what most of the other camera manufacturers did--they began sucking the build quality out of their bodies and lenses. At least Nikon maintained a high-end line for professionals. Pentax lost it whan they discontinued the LX without first creating a replacement model. When I compare the build quality of my "A" lenses to my SMC Takumars, I just shake my head in disbelief. The Spotmatic-F and the ES-II were the high water marks for Pentax. Once they migrated to the K Mount, things went downhill. I have a P3n and a P30t which I use as my knockaround cameras. They are made in China, they are so light that they feel like they're just made of air, but they take good photos. Trouble is, they feel like toys, relative to my older Pentax gear. Many (most?) of today's photographers don't remember what was out there in the early 70s, and thus do not know what they are missing. I would argue that--for advanced amateurs especially--cameras and lenses need to provide some tactile gratification in addition to just recording images. If they feel like toys, the brand will be perceived as another also-ran. Now, with Pentax mass-producing digital ameras in Vietnam, the problem will only become worse. Cameras are becoming commodities rather than specialized optical tools. Robotic assembly lines stamp them out as though they were cookie cutters. Remember when audiophiles spent thousands on top-notch turntables and cartridges, in order to get that high end sound? Now a cheap CD Walkman can outperform many of those old analog setups--and audiophile sound is available to Everyman, at low prices. I suspect that consumer/advanced amateur gear is headed in the same direction. Cheap, disposable & plastic . .. . |
#37
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
On Mar 11, 12:14*pm, "Jeremy" wrote:
"Dudley Hanks" wrote in message news:nWCAj.74916$w57.63673@edtnps90... Back in the '60s, '70s and even into the '80s Pentax was right up there with Canon and Nikon. *But, today, it seems like the company doesn't even get honourable mention in the brand wars. *What happened? They did what most of the other camera manufacturers did--they began sucking the build quality out of their bodies and lenses. *At least Nikon maintained a high-end line for professionals. *Pentax lost it whan they discontinued the LX without first creating a replacement model. When I compare the build quality of my "A" lenses to my SMC Takumars, I just shake my head in disbelief. *The Spotmatic-F and the ES-II were the high water marks for Pentax. *Once they migrated to the K Mount, things went downhill. *I have a P3n and a P30t which I use as my knockaround cameras.. They are made in China, they are so light that they feel like they're just made of air, but they take good photos. *Trouble is, they feel like toys, relative to my older Pentax gear. Many (most?) of today's photographers don't remember what was out there in the early 70s, and thus do not know what they are missing. I would argue that--for advanced amateurs especially--cameras and lenses need to provide some tactile gratification in addition to just recording images. *If they feel like toys, the brand will be perceived as another also-ran. Now, with Pentax mass-producing digital ameras in Vietnam, the problem will only become worse. *Cameras are becoming commodities rather than specialized optical tools. *Robotic assembly lines stamp them out as though they were cookie cutters. Remember when audiophiles spent thousands on top-notch turntables and cartridges, in order to get that high end sound? *Now a cheap CD Walkman can outperform many of those old analog setups--and audiophile sound is available to Everyman, at low prices. *I suspect that consumer/advanced amateur gear is headed in the same direction. *Cheap, disposable & plastic . . . Did Pentax almost go under last year? If I am not mistaken, Hoya (the makers of filter lens) planned to buy Pentax in 2006/2007. But I heard that the deal did not fall through. Can someone confirm? See the old news in Dec 2006: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai.../cnhoya22..xml I saw an early development for a 6x4.5 format for digital Pentax camera a few years ago (was it in Photokina?), but I don't know if that was going anywhere either. However, when I look around on opinions on the camera websites, people who own/buy a Pentax digital cameras appear to like their camera. Either the popular 2 leading camera makers are too over-rated, or Pentax enthusiasts do not want to tell anybody that they have problems with their cameras. In the old days, I still remember the famous Asahi Pentax Spotmatix SLR, as well as the Pentax 6x7 camera. I hope that the company is making a come back with their K10D, and K20D models. |
#38
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
Michael Benveniste wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:44:22 +0000, Tony Polson wrote: The Hasselblad H3D-39 uniquely satisfies a need for a 39 MP DSLR. While there will only be a (relatively) small number of people who need 39 MP, the camera will be profitable if those people are prepared to pay a high price. I just wondered how many people were in that position. Walk into non-photographer friend's home, and note the number of large, high-quality photographic prints. Then do the same for a small or medium-sized business. The H3D-39 is designed to create a gallery quality 18x24" print, or a very good quality 27x36". Currently, that size of print is not really in fashion for homes. In a business setting, you'll see the occasional founders' shot or team photograph, but even those are now more likely to appear on a webpage than on a wall. My _guess_ is that quite a few working pros have an occasional need to print at that size, but it's not enough to warrant the investment. Instead, they'll either look to rent an H3D or fall back to a film camera. In the last year, the two 24x30" prints I've made both came out of my 4x5" field camera. Of course, fashions could change next week. But if I was a pro, I wouldn't tie up my capital on that sort of bet. An interesting analysis, Michael. However I think the market for such prints is vanishingly small. The H3D appears popular for fashion and advertising photography. 39 MP is probably pretty useful for billboard size prints, and high quality reproduction in fashion magazines and catalogs. I have no idea what proportion of the H3D market these uses represent, however. |
#39
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
Pudentame wrote:
David J. Littleboy wrote: "Pudentame" wrote: I don't know if the market is really there for medium format digital, since all the MF digital I know of on the market are actually crop sensors, none of them actually 6x4.5, 6x6, or 6x7. (Note that the actuall MF frame sizes are 42x56, 56x56, and 56x70mm.) The current "cropped" MF digital sensors are 36x48, which is exactly twice the area of "FF", and so does have a theoretical advantage. It also turns out that MF lenses are razor sharp on 5D density digital sensors, so 24MP and higher images that are painfully sharp corner to corner are a piece of cake for MF digital. Anything 24MP and over in FF is going to be a stretch for even the best Nikkor or Canon lenses at anything other than f/8 or f/11. There's also the cost. Medium Format film was affordable, medium format digital not so much, with digital backs selling upwards of $10K, although, IIRC, the Pentax 645D was planned to come on the market around $4K. Medium format film thrived because even rank amateurs could afford it. I don't know if we'll see medium format digital get there. We will, as to affordability, at least. Marketability is possibly a bigger question. I'd sure like one at less than $3,000, but not a back, and integrated design. -- john mcwilliams |
#40
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Whatever happened to Pentax?
Dudley Hanks wrote:
Back in the '60s, '70s and even into the '80s Pentax was right up there with Canon and Nikon. But, today, it seems like the company doesn't even get honourable mention in the brand wars. What happened? As for myself, the last few times I've gone to buy a camera, I was purchasing a compact that both my wife and I would be using. She likes an optical view-finder while I use the LCD. This more-or-less ruled out Pentax, since I couldn't find a Pentax with an optical finder at any of the local camera shops. I still have an old Pentax P3 film SLR that shoots great shots, and I pull it out every now and then. I can't think of any reason why the quality of Pentax film cameras should not have carried over into the digital world. What about the rest of you? Any ideas on why Pentax has sort of faded into the background? Pondering, Dudley Hello, Dudley: Pentax is alive and well, and providing the most competition to Canon and Nikon, in the current (amateur) DSLR market. Cordially, John Turco |
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