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Deconstruct a GIF file



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 6th 17, 12:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| bmp is very, very rarely used anymore.

Of course not, on Macs.


nor on windows. bmp is inefficient.

it still exists, but it's not that common anymore.

The OP seems to
be on Windows. A BMP is the most basic
bitmap format. A grid of pixel values. It's
what *all* raster graphics are. JPG, PNG,
GIF, etc all render as bitmaps. Only the
storage varies. A BMP file is only that grid
of pixel values, with a very minimal file header
of something like 22 bytes. The image you work
on in Photoshop is a bitmap. Most of the filters
you can use in Photoshop are essentially math
formulas applied to that bitmap.


but not a bmp file.

So on Windows, the only sensible way to work
with non-RAW is as BMP, or as TIF if one
prefers it compressed.


both are dumb choices.

But in that case a TIF
is only a compressed BMP.


which makes it better just for that alone.

One could work with
PNGs, but there's not much point.


for many purposes, there absolutely is.

If one works
in JPG then each save is lossy.


nope.

repeated opening/editing/saving is what's lossy.

simply saving the *same* image multiple times doesn't lose anything
beyond the first save, which won't be noticeable other than pixel
peepers.

If one works in
GIF then the number of colors has been severely
limited.


which may not be an issue for a screen shot, especially one coming from
a smartphone.

There are different ways to go to 8-bit
color from 24-bit. Getting the best GIF can
sometimes take a few tries.


only for stupid people.

So there's no sense
reduing from BMP until editing is done and one
wants a finished copy as GIF.


there's no sense in using bmp anymore.
  #12  
Old June 6th 17, 12:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 19:18:15 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Chaya Eve" wrote

| I'm not asking about meta data.
| I'm asking about layers.
|

Layers? Are you sure you're not talking about
layers in the graphic editor? Once you save a file
to disk you're merging layers. The end result is
essentially a bitmap. I don't know of any format
that stores layers, except the custom formats
used by things like Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop
that retain info about your editing. But those are
temp formats that other people usually can't open.

TIFF can save layers, but not all software can handle them

If you save to GIF then you're reducing from
24-bit color to 8-bit. (16 million+ colors to 256
colors.) The only reason to use GIF is for simple
images, especially online when a small file size
is important.


--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #13  
Old June 6th 17, 01:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mayayana
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Posts: 1,514
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

"nospam" wrote

.....
I'm not going to respond to any of this. It's just
too many misleading and/or false statements, and
to no purpose.


  #14  
Old June 6th 17, 01:56 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mayayana
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Posts: 1,514
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

"Eric Stevens" wrote

| TIFF can save layers, but not all software can handle them
|

TIF can be a lot of things. I'm guessing that you're
talking about specific software that saves layers for
its own use. That's what I meant by custom formats.
Paint Shop Pro can save layers in PSP format, but
no other program can read that, so it doesn't count.
I don't know of any standard format that has a layers
option in the spec. So I'm guessing that Chaya Eve
is actually talking about layers worked with in an
editor, mistakenly thinking all of those layers end up
prt of the final PNG image.


  #15  
Old June 6th 17, 01:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

I'm not going to respond to any of this. It's just
too many misleading and/or false statements, and
to no purpose.


nothing misleading or false about what i wrote.
  #16  
Old June 6th 17, 02:14 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| TIFF can save layers, but not all software can handle them

TIF can be a lot of things. I'm guessing that you're
talking about specific software that saves layers for
its own use. That's what I meant by custom formats.


tiff is not a custom format.

Paint Shop Pro can save layers in PSP format, but
no other program can read that, so it doesn't count.


lots of apps can read psp files.

I don't know of any standard format that has a layers
option in the spec.


several do, including tiff and photoshop, both publicly documented
formats.

So I'm guessing that Chaya Eve
is actually talking about layers worked with in an
editor, mistakenly thinking all of those layers end up
prt of the final PNG image.


chaya eve is the well known nymshifting troll.
  #17  
Old June 6th 17, 02:35 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

On Mon, 5 Jun 2017 20:56:54 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Eric Stevens" wrote

| TIFF can save layers, but not all software can handle them
|

TIF can be a lot of things. I'm guessing that you're
talking about specific software that saves layers for
its own use.


Not at all. I'm talking about TIFF. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Image_types

"Features and options
------------------------
TIFF is a flexible, adaptable file format for handling images and
data within a single file, by including the header tags (size,
definition, image-data arrangement, applied image compression)
defining the image's geometry. A TIFF file, for example, can be a
container holding JPEG (lossy) and PackBits (lossless) compressed
images. A TIFF file also can include a vector-based clipping path
(outlines, croppings, image frames). The ability to store image
data in a lossless format makes a TIFF file a useful image
archive, because, unlike standard JPEG files, a TIFF file using
lossless compression (or none) may be edited and re-saved without
losing image quality. This is not the case when using the TIFF as
a container holding compressed JPEG. Other TIFF options are layers
and pages."

.... but not all software can handle all the various possible features.

That's what I meant by custom formats.
Paint Shop Pro can save layers in PSP format, but
no other program can read that, so it doesn't count.
I don't know of any standard format that has a layers
option in the spec. So I'm guessing that Chaya Eve
is actually talking about layers worked with in an
editor, mistakenly thinking all of those layers end up
prt of the final PNG image.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #18  
Old June 6th 17, 02:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mayayana
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Posts: 1,514
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

"Eric Stevens" wrote

| TIF can be a lot of things. I'm guessing that you're
| talking about specific software that saves layers for
| its own use.
|
| Not at all. I'm talking about TIFF. See
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Image_types
|

It seems like we're saying the same thing, with different
emphasis. I'm saying it can be many things, but generally
it's a compressed bitmap. Your link doesn't conflict with
that. There wouldn't be much point in using features that
most programs don't read.

I'd use TIF for storage if I needed the space, but generally
I just stick with BMP once I have something I might work on.

I'm surprised by how many photographers and graphics
people like JPG. If anyone came out with a lossless
format, achieving similar compression and royalty-free,
JPG would quickly disappear. File size and lack of royalty
are the only reason it achieved wide usage. Now it's
grossly overused to such an extent that grotesquely
compressed images have become almost synonymous
with webpage graphics, and even with photography.


  #19  
Old June 6th 17, 03:04 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

I'm surprised by how many photographers and graphics
people like JPG.


because it works exceptionally well in nearly all situations.

If anyone came out with a lossless
format, achieving similar compression and royalty-free,
JPG would quickly disappear.


they did, and it didn't.

File size and lack of royalty
are the only reason it achieved wide usage. Now it's
grossly overused to such an extent that grotesquely
compressed images have become almost synonymous
with webpage graphics, and even with photography.


nothing about jpeg requires it to be 'grotesquely compressed'.

a high quality jpeg is visually indistinguishable from the original
unless you pixel peep. simple test: open both in photoshop and
subtract. the differences are *very* minor.
  #20  
Old June 6th 17, 03:09 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Deconstruct a GIF file

On 2017-06-06 01:14:23 +0000, nospam said:


chaya eve is the well known nymshifting troll.


Given the absurdity of the original question that makes perfect sense.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

 




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