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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
I just bought a new digi camera and a second battery pack. The literature says the batteries are good for "300 cycles", FWIW. Should I run the battery in the camera flat before I switch to the second one or should I do a top-off charge on every pack when it's been used for more than a few shots? The camera gets used daily for a few shots but I do an outing that runs a fully charged pack to zero only every coouple months. I like to carry two packs because (a) I distrust rechargables having the charge I think they should have and (b) on occasion I get sucked into something on very short notice that needs a full battery, if not more. I'm not going to get anal on this. A new battery pack is only about 30 bucks. Thanks. -- Al Dykes News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising. - Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
#2
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... Al Dykes writes: I don't really understand why manufacturers love rechargeables so much. What's wrong with two AA batteries? AA Alkalines don't have the deep cycle that cameras and other tech toys require, but at $1 each x 4 (my camera uses) x 300 uses = $1,200 at is pretty expensive versus rechargables, mind you my last name isn't DuraCell |
#3
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
On 18/07/2008 23:07 Dev/Null wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... Al Dykes writes: I don't really understand why manufacturers love rechargeables so much. What's wrong with two AA batteries? AA Alkalines don't have the deep cycle that cameras and other tech toys require, but at $1 each x 4 (my camera uses) x 300 uses = $1,200 at is pretty expensive versus rechargables, mind you my last name isn't DuraCell Alkaline cells have relatively high internal electrical resistance and can't efficiently deliver energy at the high currents demanded by digital cameras. That's why they get very warm in digital cameras. Rechargeable batteries don't have that limitation. Also Li-Ion batteries store more energy for their physical volume than alkalines. |
#4
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:55:29 +1000, Bob Parker wrote:
Alkaline cells have relatively high internal electrical resistance and can't efficiently deliver energy at the high currents demanded by digital cameras. That's why they get very warm in digital cameras. Rechargeable batteries don't have that limitation. The relatively high resistance is only a problem with cameras that have very high current demands. That was generally the case more than 4 years ago when a set of alkalines might have lasted for only a couple of dozen shots. In today's cameras, hundreds of shots using full power flashes and with the LCD display on (the CIPA procedure) to well over 1,000 shots using few flashes per set of alkaline AA batteries isn't uncommon. Also Li-Ion batteries store more energy for their physical volume than alkalines. That may have been true several years ago, but in that time my NiMH AA cells have had an increase in capacity from about 1,000mAh to today's 2,700mAh. FWIW, I was quite surprised a week or two ago when I found that instead of using relatively large proprietary rechargeable batteries, many of today's portable phones from Panasonic and other companies are now being supplied with only two AAA NiMH cells, and getting very good talk and standby time from them. It's still true though that for the same physical volume, Li-Ion batteries weigh much less than alkaline or NiMH cells. |
#5
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
Mxsmanic wrote:
I don't really understand why manufacturers love rechargeables so much. What's wrong with two AA batteries? As far as Li-Ion there are a lot of reasons: 1. Much lower self-discharge rate (except for newer Hybrio and eneloop NiMH cells, which trade low self-discharge for lower capacity) 2. More charge/discharge cycles 3. Usage pattern and charge regimen is better suited to digital cameras (and other devices where the usual pattern is partial discharge/full charge) 4. Self-Discharge rate is constant during the life of the battery (NiMH batteries steadily increase in self-discharge over the life of the battery) 5. Greater energy density by weight 6. Greater energy density by volume (AA batteries are not practical for sub-compact and ultra-compact cameras because of size, and AAA batteries are not practical because of capacity) 7. Greater number of shots per WH 8. Faster shot to shot times, especially when using flash 9. More convenient to swap and charge than AA cells (no fumbling with multiple cells, and keeping track of which battery is in which set) 10. Far better cold weather performance 11. Far better performance at high temperatures 12. Devices using Li-Ion batteries are more reliable than devices using AA batteries (unlikely to have a battery door flip open and have the batteries scatter all over) 13. Li-Ion batteries can be left in devices that are not used for long periods of time 14. Li-Ion batteries have protection circuitry built into the pack and do not rely on the charger for this protection 15. Accurate charge level gauge is included in most Li-Ion powered cameras, but is not possible in NiMH powered cameras (low-battery indicator only) 16. Li-Ion batteries do not suffer from polarity reversal 17. Li-Ion batteries do not suffer from the "dud" cell problem 18. No need to "Battery Match" cells of similar capacity 19. Rechargeable battery and charger come with the camera, versus buying a charger and batteries for an AA powered camera 20. Smaller and lighter chargers Steve "http://batterydata.com/" Earth's Independent and Authoritative Source for Digital Camera Battery Information |
#6
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:34:26 -0700, SMS
wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: I don't really understand why manufacturers love rechargeables so much. What's wrong with two AA batteries? As far as Li-Ion there are a lot of reasons: 1. Much lower self-discharge rate (except for newer Hybrio and eneloop NiMH cells, which trade low self-discharge for lower capacity) So a Li-Ion battery has a lower self discharge rate than an AA alkaline? I don't think so. |
#7
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
In article , SMS
wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: I don't really understand why manufacturers love rechargeables so much. What's wrong with two AA batteries? As far as Li-Ion there are a lot of reasons: here we go again... 2. More charge/discharge cycles lion degrades whether you use it or not. after a year or two, it doesn't matter whether you used 300 cycles or 3 cycles, the lion battery will have lower capacity. 3. Usage pattern and charge regimen is better suited to digital cameras (and other devices where the usual pattern is partial discharge/full charge) depends on one's usage patterns. some people shoot daily, others shoot sporadically every month or two. 5. Greater energy density by weight more expensive too. 7. Greater number of shots per WH not necessarily 8. Faster shot to shot times, especially when using flash which flash uses lion? 9. More convenient to swap and charge than AA cells (no fumbling with multiple cells, and keeping track of which battery is in which set) that's why they make battery carriers. 12. Devices using Li-Ion batteries are more reliable than devices using AA batteries (unlikely to have a battery door flip open and have the batteries scatter all over) nonsense. whether the battery door is flimsy or not has *nothing* to do with the battery technology. 13. Li-Ion batteries can be left in devices that are not used for long periods of time so can nimh, particularly eneloops. heck i've left alkaline in some devices for a long time. 14. Li-Ion batteries have protection circuitry built into the pack and do not rely on the charger for this protection as long as there's protection circuitry, what difference does it make? also, lion batts can explode, while nimh will just overheat, or worst case, melt. 15. Accurate charge level gauge is included in most Li-Ion powered cameras, but is not possible in NiMH powered cameras (low-battery indicator only) it can be reasonably accurate. 16. Li-Ion batteries do not suffer from polarity reversal 17. Li-Ion batteries do not suffer from the "dud" cell problem oh yes they do. 18. No need to "Battery Match" cells of similar capacity that's because lion batteries are always in a pack, never single cells. that has nothing to do with it being lion. 19. Rechargeable battery and charger come with the camera, versus buying a charger and batteries for an AA powered camera nimh chargers come with various products too, although generally very basic ones. 20. Smaller and lighter chargers depends on the charger. |
#8
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
snip
I don't really understand why manufacturers love rechargeables so much. What's wrong with two AA batteries? As far as Li-Ion there are a lot of reasons: here we go again... He's just proven his bias for Li-Ion once again. He was so eager to post the attributes of Li-Ion that he forgot to notice that he was responding to a comparison of AA alkaline's. With AA alkaline's in mind most of his attributes do not apply or are wrong 2. More charge/discharge cycles Snip |
#9
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
Al Dykes wrote:
I just bought a new digi camera and a second battery pack. The literature says the batteries are good for "300 cycles", FWIW. Should I run the battery in the camera flat before I switch to the second one or should I do a top-off charge on every pack when it's been used for more than a few shots? The camera gets used daily for a few shots but I do an outing that runs a fully charged pack to zero only every coouple months. I like to carry two packs because (a) I distrust rechargables having the charge I think they should have and (b) on occasion I get sucked into something on very short notice that needs a full battery, if not more. I'm not going to get anal on this. A new battery pack is only about 30 bucks. Thanks. OK. A few facts. Lithium Ion rechargeables have a basic life of 3 years in normal use. Charge cycles don't make a lot of difference as most devices that use them insist you recharge when the power drops to about 20%, so you can recharge daily, if you want to. If you will multiply the number of shots you get when you run the battery down to the point where it indicates it needs recharging, by the number of 'cycles' (300), I suspect that will exceed the number of pictures you will likely do with that camera. Given that you have two batteries, I don't think you really need to worry about this issue, but you should be aware that BOTH the batteries, regardless of use, will probably lose more than 50% of their charge capacity over 3 years. |
#10
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LiON battery recharging - what strategy should I use?
Dev/Null wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... Al Dykes writes: I don't really understand why manufacturers love rechargeables so much. What's wrong with two AA batteries? AA Alkalines don't have the deep cycle that cameras and other tech toys require, but at $1 each x 4 (my camera uses) x 300 uses = $1,200 at is pretty expensive versus rechargables, mind you my last name isn't DuraCell If you are paying $1 each for alkaline batteries, you really need to watch the ads. I usually draw the line at $.39, and that is for DuraCell, or similar. |
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