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Shutter CLA prices and qualities
My recent convo with http://www.khbphotografix.com/
per my interest in their prices. Here I will reverse the order from bottom to top as follows, all comments are welcome. initial question from me: Subject: shutter CLA quote I have three shutters in need of CLA Wollensak Graphex / ? Compur rapid / 0 Synchro compur-P / 0 All are working, slow speeds and extremely innacurate and should not need any parts. The Graphex stops at slower speeds and can be pushed to closing. please reply with repair prices AND shipping costs. Thank you very much, reply: Alex, Thank you for contacting us. As long as parts are not required, an overhaul can be done on each lens for about $180 - $220CDN (about $135 - $170.00 US) per lens. Because they would have to cross the border, we have to suggest that they be sent uninsured with $0 commercial value declared. It does mean that there is a risk that if the shutters are lost or damaged, they won't be covered, but if any value is declared, customs brokerage fees are automatically applied. We're unable to quote you a fee for shipping without knowing the size and weight of the parcel. We would normally ship by FedEx Ground or Canada Post Small Packet service. Please let us know if there's any other information we can provide. Regards, Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix My reply back: Pass this on to managers please Well gosh, thanks for the reply. But why wouldn't you compete with S.K. Grimes on prices? They state a CLA on a LF shutter is $80.00 to $100.00 US. I think you should lower your cost and say so, and what that cost is on your website. People into LF photography always need a decent deal on a shutter CLA my friends. ALL the time. Most old lenses sold are in innacurate shutters. You could even sell a c$95.00 (US $72.54 not- rounded, $70.00 rounded) CLA service on ebay. I could bet you your business you'd make more C$ than you are now. Such a sale price would not include new parts or the fabrication of them, but it would be more than fair. People would also advo for you in communications groups about such a good deal. The thing about S. K. Grimes (not the man) is the site says $80.00, they will email you back and say $100.00 to you. That is since the man passed away, his younger workers have taken over the business. http://www.skgrimes.com/ No offense intended, sincerely, Alex Reply to me: Alex, No offence taken. We appreciate your interest and candor. The proper way to service those shutters is to completely disassemble the shutter, ultrasonically clean all the parts, then reassemble, properly lubricating as you go. That's the way we do it. Other technicians use a solvent to attempt to dissolve the old grease and lubricants without disassembling. That saves time, thus allowing them to quote a lower price, but we don't believe it is as effective in the long run. With complete disassembly, it's 2 to 2-1/2 hours work. If the technicians at S.K. Grimes are able to do it that way for less money, so be it. If they do the service without complete disassembly, then you're paying less and getting less. If you're satisfied with that, that's fine too. But we won't compromise on doing the work properly. I suppose the analogy might be a car engine with sticky valves. You can pay a relatively inexpensive fee for running a solvent through and flushing the engine, or you can pay to have the head disassembled and cleaned. Which is best? That depends on your budget, how long you intend to drive the car and how much the car is worth to you. Since there are different levels of service, LF people should be sure of what service they're being quoted on so they can make a valid comparison Regards, Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix This was a bit enlightening for me as far as repair techniques being offered! I didn't such diffs existed. Alex |
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Shutter CLA prices and qualities
Don't forget that the labour costs are much higher in Canada because of the
superior workmanship... :-) |
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Shutter CLA prices and qualities
"AArDvarK" wrote in message news:Tp4ac.63936$1I5.14721@fed1read01... My recent convo with http://www.khbphotografix.com/ per my interest in their prices. Here I will reverse the order from bottom to top as follows, all comments are welcome. initial question from me: Subject: shutter CLA quote I have three shutters in need of CLA Wollensak Graphex / ? Compur rapid / 0 Synchro compur-P / 0 All are working, slow speeds and extremely innacurate and should not need any parts. The Graphex stops at slower speeds and can be pushed to closing. please reply with repair prices AND shipping costs. Thank you very much, reply: Alex, Thank you for contacting us. As long as parts are not required, an overhaul can be done on each lens for about $180 - $220CDN (about $135 - $170.00 US) per lens. Because they would have to cross the border, we have to suggest that they be sent uninsured with $0 commercial value declared. It does mean that there is a risk that if the shutters are lost or damaged, they won't be covered, but if any value is declared, customs brokerage fees are automatically applied. We're unable to quote you a fee for shipping without knowing the size and weight of the parcel. We would normally ship by FedEx Ground or Canada Post Small Packet service. Please let us know if there's any other information we can provide. Regards, Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix My reply back: Pass this on to managers please Well gosh, thanks for the reply. But why wouldn't you compete with S.K. Grimes on prices? They state a CLA on a LF shutter is $80.00 to $100.00 US. I think you should lower your cost and say so, and what that cost is on your website. People into LF photography always need a decent deal on a shutter CLA my friends. ALL the time. Most old lenses sold are in innacurate shutters. You could even sell a c$95.00 (US $72.54 not- rounded, $70.00 rounded) CLA service on ebay. I could bet you your business you'd make more C$ than you are now. Such a sale price would not include new parts or the fabrication of them, but it would be more than fair. People would also advo for you in communications groups about such a good deal. The thing about S. K. Grimes (not the man) is the site says $80.00, they will email you back and say $100.00 to you. That is since the man passed away, his younger workers have taken over the business. http://www.skgrimes.com/ No offense intended, sincerely, Alex Reply to me: Alex, No offence taken. We appreciate your interest and candor. The proper way to service those shutters is to completely disassemble the shutter, ultrasonically clean all the parts, then reassemble, properly lubricating as you go. That's the way we do it. Other technicians use a solvent to attempt to dissolve the old grease and lubricants without disassembling. That saves time, thus allowing them to quote a lower price, but we don't believe it is as effective in the long run. With complete disassembly, it's 2 to 2-1/2 hours work. If the technicians at S.K. Grimes are able to do it that way for less money, so be it. If they do the service without complete disassembly, then you're paying less and getting less. If you're satisfied with that, that's fine too. But we won't compromise on doing the work properly. I suppose the analogy might be a car engine with sticky valves. You can pay a relatively inexpensive fee for running a solvent through and flushing the engine, or you can pay to have the head disassembled and cleaned. Which is best? That depends on your budget, how long you intend to drive the car and how much the car is worth to you. Since there are different levels of service, LF people should be sure of what service they're being quoted on so they can make a valid comparison Regards, Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix This was a bit enlightening for me as far as repair techniques being offered! I didn't such diffs existed. Alex The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding is really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not always necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One problem with the often recommended technique of soaking the shutter in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out the dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I ran into this just recently in fixing an old dial set Compur from a c.1937 Rolleiflex. I gave it a casual cleaning and it kept jamming. The problem turned out to be a small fiber of something on one of the shutter blades, which was pushed under the activating ring. Once I bit the bullet and did a real cleaning job on it the problem went away. This shutter, BTW is exactly on speed even at 1/500th. I think it has been serviced at some time since it was built but probably not for decades. Most shutter technicians will charge about $80 US for a CLA but find out what exactly they do for this. The $200 price seems a little high but the time quoted is about right and may be short for shutters like the Kodak, Ilex, and Wollensak, where it may be necessary to adjust springs or even make them. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
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Shutter CLA prices and qualities
Richard Knoppow: The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding is really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not always necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One problem with the often recommended technique of soaking the shutter in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out the dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I ran into this just recently in fixing an old dial set Compur from a c.1937 Rolleiflex. I gave it a casual cleaning and it kept jamming. The problem turned out to be a small fiber of something on one of the shutter blades, which was pushed under the activating ring. Once I bit the bullet and did a real cleaning job on it the problem went away. This shutter, BTW is exactly on speed even at 1/500th. I think it has been serviced at some time since it was built but probably not for decades. Most shutter technicians will charge about $80 US for a CLA but find out what exactly they do for this. The $200 price seems a little high but the time quoted is about right and may be short for shutters like the Kodak, Ilex, and Wollensak, where it may be necessary to adjust springs or even make them. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA Thank you for the reply Mr. Knoppow! Exactly what I was hoping to hear about. I feel that khbphotografix.com has the right idea on how to do things, but I decided it is far too expensive to simply "have done" at my financial level. Now I bought repair guides for the graphex and rapax shutters, and will buy them for compurs and prontors too. I know I am tech-savvy enough to learn it, I have rebuilt two LF cameras and the rotating back of a Busch Pressman D. I would like to find a used ultrasonic cleaning machine for the parts. Do you have one? If so, does it clean parts within a fluid bath, or dry? Thanks again, Alex |
#5
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Shutter CLA prices and qualities
"AArDvarK" wrote in message news:wjldc.350$Va4.16@fed1read01... Richard Knoppow: The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding is really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not always necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One problem with the often recommended technique of soaking the shutter in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out the dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I ran into this just recently in fixing an old dial set Compur from a c.1937 Rolleiflex. I gave it a casual cleaning and it kept jamming. The problem turned out to be a small fiber of something on one of the shutter blades, which was pushed under the activating ring. Once I bit the bullet and did a real cleaning job on it the problem went away. This shutter, BTW is exactly on speed even at 1/500th. I think it has been serviced at some time since it was built but probably not for decades. Most shutter technicians will charge about $80 US for a CLA but find out what exactly they do for this. The $200 price seems a little high but the time quoted is about right and may be short for shutters like the Kodak, Ilex, and Wollensak, where it may be necessary to adjust springs or even make them. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA Thank you for the reply Mr. Knoppow! Exactly what I was hoping to hear about. I feel that khbphotografix.com has the right idea on how to do things, but I decided it is far too expensive to simply "have done" at my financial level. Now I bought repair guides for the graphex and rapax shutters, and will buy them for compurs and prontors too. I know I am tech-savvy enough to learn it, I have rebuilt two LF cameras and the rotating back of a Busch Pressman D. I would like to find a used ultrasonic cleaning machine for the parts. Do you have one? If so, does it clean parts within a fluid bath, or dry? Thanks again, Alex I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner and don't think they are absolutely necessary, especially if you are doing only occasional work. They clean wet, the parts are put into a dish which is part of the cleaner. I suspect a simple vapor degreaser would be even more effective by my elementary experiments have not worked so far. I think you can do with using several rinses of the shutter parts. Use two different solvents. Naptha (lighter fluid) works for some greases and Isopropyl alcohol for others. I would use 99% Isopropyl for the final rinse. Isopropyl alcohol absorbs moisture from the air very rapidly until it reaches about 91% purity. That is too wet for cleaning purposes since it will leave a water residue behind. Some drugstores sell 99% Isopropyl. That works fine but must be used fresh since once you open the bottle it will begin to absorb moisture. A half-filled bottle that's been around a while will probably have turned to 91% alcohol. You can tell by the way it evaporates, the very dry stuff evaporates very rapidly and leaves nothing behind. -- --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
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Shutter CLA prices and qualities
The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding is really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not always necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One problem with the often recommended technique of soaking the shutter in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out the dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I Interestingly SK Grimes just contacted me about a used lens I'd sent them for a shutter fix. They said there was a delay because it was so gunked up inside that a number of parts required complete disassembly and cleaning. So it may well be that this isn't a normal part of their proceedure as opposed to the way khbphotografix does it, which would account for the price differential? tim a |
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