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Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 20th 07, 11:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Dave[_14_]
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Posts: 17
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

Hey there,

I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).

I had posted a comparative (Sigma vs Canon) Wide Angle lens question a
couple of weeks ago - to which I received a bunch of great replies -
so I guess this is somewhat related.

Thanks a lot, dave
  #2  
Old November 20th 07, 11:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
frederick
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Posts: 1,525
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

Dave wrote:
Hey there,

I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).

I had posted a comparative (Sigma vs Canon) Wide Angle lens question a
couple of weeks ago - to which I received a bunch of great replies -
so I guess this is somewhat related.

Thanks a lot, dave

It won't be any different for DOF at same focal length and
aperture. For good DOF control with extra wide lenses,
switch AF off and focus manually.
  #3  
Old November 21st 07, 12:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
acl
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Posts: 1,389
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

On Nov 21, 1:52 am, frederick wrote:
Dave wrote:
Hey there,


I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).


I had posted a comparative (Sigma vs Canon) Wide Angle lens question a
couple of weeks ago - to which I received a bunch of great replies -
so I guess this is somewhat related.


Thanks a lot, dave



It won't be any different for DOF at same focal length and
aperture. For good DOF control with extra wide lenses,
switch AF off and focus manually.


Yes, it should be the same for the same focal length, f/stop and focus
distance, But what, exactly, is the OP's problem? Not enough DOF? Too
much? Wrong range in focus? I am not sure I understood.
  #4  
Old November 21st 07, 01:16 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J. Littleboy
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Posts: 2,618
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question


"Dave" wrote:

I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).


DOF does not vary significantly with the lens quality (within reason). Your
Canon lens is fine.

If you want the maximum DOF in landscape work, turn off AF (set the lens to
MF), set the focus distance on the lens to 1 meter, use f/16, and use the
wide end of the range (16mm and wider). You should find that your images are
sharp from quite close to infinity. You might prefer f/11 for sharpness, at
which point you may want to stick to focal lengths closer to 10mm.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


  #5  
Old November 21st 07, 03:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Dave[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

On Nov 20, 3:08 pm, acl wrote:
On Nov 21, 1:52 am, frederick wrote:





Dave wrote:
Hey there,


I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).


I had posted a comparative (Sigma vs Canon) Wide Angle lens question a
couple of weeks ago - to which I received a bunch of great replies -
so I guess this is somewhat related.


Thanks a lot, dave


It won't be any different for DOF at same focal length and
aperture. For good DOF control with extra wide lenses,
switch AF off and focus manually.


Yes, it should be the same for the same focal length, f/stop and focus
distance, But what, exactly, is the OP's problem? Not enough DOF? Too
much? Wrong range in focus? I am not sure I understood.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Perhaps i should not had left it as implied but not enough DOF of
course. I was shooting over the entire range 10mm - 22mm, but saw the
worst DOF at 10mm. I was manually focusing too far away possibly, so
I'll try David J's suggestion. thanks David J. and frederick!

Oh i'm up in the seattle area and lighting is pretty low these days -
so I may have to use my monopod or tripod to go above f10 i guess.

dave
  #6  
Old November 21st 07, 03:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
frederick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,525
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

Dave wrote:
On Nov 20, 3:08 pm, acl wrote:
On Nov 21, 1:52 am, frederick wrote:





Dave wrote:
Hey there,
I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).
I had posted a comparative (Sigma vs Canon) Wide Angle lens question a
couple of weeks ago - to which I received a bunch of great replies -
so I guess this is somewhat related.
Thanks a lot, dave
It won't be any different for DOF at same focal length and
aperture. For good DOF control with extra wide lenses,
switch AF off and focus manually.

Yes, it should be the same for the same focal length, f/stop and focus
distance, But what, exactly, is the OP's problem? Not enough DOF? Too
much? Wrong range in focus? I am not sure I understood.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Perhaps i should not had left it as implied but not enough DOF of
course. I was shooting over the entire range 10mm - 22mm, but saw the
worst DOF at 10mm. I was manually focusing too far away possibly, so
I'll try David J's suggestion. thanks David J. and frederick!

Oh i'm up in the seattle area and lighting is pretty low these days -
so I may have to use my monopod or tripod to go above f10 i guess.

dave


You should/could be able to hand hold at 1/16th second or
less at 10mm or so.
That varies from person to person, shot to shot. If you're
anticipating shooting at around that shutter speed, then
yes, a tripod is a good idea.
  #7  
Old November 21st 07, 04:59 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Paul Furman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,367
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

David J. Littleboy wrote:
"Dave" wrote:
I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).


DOF does not vary significantly with the lens quality (within reason). Your
Canon lens is fine.

If you want the maximum DOF in landscape work, turn off AF (set the lens to
MF), set the focus distance on the lens to 1 meter,


One meter is a bit close unless he has foreground even closer than that.
I haven't really used hyperfocal tables but it might be worth glancing
at some to get a feel for it (multiply by 1.6x for crop factor). The
basic idea is to focus a somewhat closer than the middle of the area you
want in focus because except for macro, there tends to be a deeper focus
behind the point of focus than in front.

Ah, OK David L., sorry, 10mm at f/16 focused at 1m does indeed look fine
at infinity up to 0.24m
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...calculator.htm
For a 19 inch print at f/8, 2 meters does the trick!

use f/16, and use the
wide end of the range (16mm and wider). You should find that your images are
sharp from quite close to infinity. You might prefer f/11 for sharpness, at
which point you may want to stick to focal lengths closer to 10mm.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


  #8  
Old November 21st 07, 10:16 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Toby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

You should google up "hyperfocal distance" and study the concept.


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hey there,

I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).

I had posted a comparative (Sigma vs Canon) Wide Angle lens question a
couple of weeks ago - to which I received a bunch of great replies -
so I guess this is somewhat related.

Thanks a lot, dave



  #9  
Old November 21st 07, 10:36 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Paul E
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Posts: 2
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

"Paul Furman" wrote in message ...
David J. Littleboy wrote:
"Dave" wrote:
I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).


DOF does not vary significantly with the lens quality (within reason). Your Canon lens is fine.

If you want the maximum DOF in landscape work, turn off AF (set the lens to MF), set the focus distance on the lens to 1 meter,


One meter is a bit close unless he has foreground even closer than that. I haven't really used hyperfocal tables but it might be
worth glancing at some to get a feel for it (multiply by 1.6x for crop factor). The basic idea is to focus a somewhat closer than
the middle of the area you want in focus because except for macro, there tends to be a deeper focus behind the point of focus than
in front.

Ah, OK David L., sorry, 10mm at f/16 focused at 1m does indeed look fine at infinity up to 0.24m
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...calculator.htm
For a 19 inch print at f/8, 2 meters does the trick!

use f/16, and use the wide end of the range (16mm and wider). You should find that your images are sharp from quite close to
infinity. You might prefer f/11 for sharpness, at which point you may want to stick to focal lengths closer to 10mm.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan


On a Canon EOS DSLR, f16 is way too small: anything below about f10 is liable to degrade the image through diffraction.

Maybe that's part of the OP's problem - trying to get too much DoF.

As for the focusing distance, a 12mm lens @ f9.5 focused at 4.5ft will have everything just about as sharp as possible from 2ft to
the horizon for prints up to 12*8in @ 300ppi.

Paul Edstein

  #10  
Old November 21st 07, 12:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Tony Polson
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Posts: 1,194
Default Tokina Super Wide Angle 12-24mm f/4 - DOF Question

Dave wrote:

Hey there,

I was hoping to get testimonials about the Tokina lens' Depth Of Field
abilities. I recently bought the Canon Super Wide 10-22 f/3.5 - 4.5
and I'm displeased with it's DOF abilities. I've tried shooting both
with AF and MF, with varying small apertures, ISO's, ... and I'm just
not getting what I need from this lens. It's a shame as the lens if
performing quite well otherwise (barrel distortions, CAs, MTF
Res, ...).

I had posted a comparative (Sigma vs Canon) Wide Angle lens question a
couple of weeks ago - to which I received a bunch of great replies -
so I guess this is somewhat related.

Thanks a lot, dave




From your posting, I suspect you don't actually know the meaning of
the term "depth of field".

You have presented no evidence of anything that would indicate what
the problem is, but I suspect that it isn't a "depth of field"
problem.

 




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