CANON stomps Nikon .... Again !!!

From: Dallas

But your writing this thread reminds me of my two year experience with
Canon:

D30 - died after 14 months of average use. Had to threaten legal action.

I'd say way-below-average use. Someone from Canon should've flown down and put
the poor thing out of it's misery.

BG-ED3 grip - I went through THREE of those in two years.

You do know it screws onto the BOTTOM of the camera, right?

420EX - two of those suckers.
550EX - two repairs.
28-135mm IS lens was very wiggly when I traded it in.

Yep, gotta love those industry leaders!

Odd. I've had my 28-135 IS and my 550EX for some time now and have never had a
bit of trouble out of either. Guess it depends on who's holding it, huh?

Your gear reminds me of the baseball player who was being yelled at by some
loudmouthed fan.
"Hey Johnson, I've got you in my Fantasy Baseball league and you suck!"
Johnson replied, "That's because I want to be traded!"

It is simple physics - Those with older models are no worse off than
they were last week or last year. The EF-S lenses are a way to make wide
angle available for 1.6 factor sensors without making as many compromises -
especially in pricing.
If you are afeart of getting caught on a sawn off limb there y'all don't
hafta buy any EF-S lenses and you will be doin jes'fine -- but your wides
are gonna cost a bit more. Such is the choices one makes in life.
I'm planning on the 17-85 and I'll sell it with the body if I ever decide
to go to full frame. I've been hoping for a 28-105 IS lens for years and
Canon has finally (in an odd way) produced one for me. Now I want a 70-200
f4 IS and I'll be a happy man - for a while.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"Michael Benveniste" wrote in message
...
On 20 Aug 2004 17:57:50 -0400,
(Stephen H. Westin) wrote:

Of course, the Mk II buyer gets a wider field of view with the 14mm
f:2.8L USM than is possible with any Canon lens on the 20D.

Hmmm. 14x1.3 = 18.2mm. 10x1.6 = 16mm. Am I missing something?

I don't mean this as a slam against the 14mm, which I assume is an
extraordinary lens, but $1700+ is a lot of money for a 91 degree
field of view.

Well, that's the pitfall in buying expensive toys. For those
who need 8 fps, or better autofocus, or more ruggedness, or
probably a bit less noise due to the larger sensor, the Mk II
still makes perfect sense.

As I said, for certain pros, it's a no-brainer. Still, a $3000
difference per body will make a lot more pros look twice. If Canon's
claims for the D20's noise levels are valid, image quality is going to
be an interesting horse race.

Since the EF-S lenses only fit newer models, I don't have to
wonder where this leaves current D30, D60, and 10D owners.
Without a 10-22mm zoom. Which is where they were before the
announcement.

And now without any realistic chance of getting anything wider than an
effective 22mm from Canon. Before, they could have at least hoped
that the EF-S mount 18-55mm was just a one shot.

I understand what you're saying, and this sort of uncertainty is one
reason I haven't bought a DSLR yet. But Canon, Nikon and the rest
depend on us amateurs buying expensive toys for a goodly chunk of
their camera revenue. From my spot on the DSLR sidelines, making
these EF-S lenses incompatible with older bodies is a marketing error
by Canon.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

It is simple physics - Those with older models are no worse off than
they were last week or last year. The EF-S lenses are a way to make wide
angle available for 1.6 factor sensors without making as many compromises -
especially in pricing.
If you are afeart of getting caught on a sawn off limb there y'all don't
hafta buy any EF-S lenses and you will be doin jes'fine -- but your wides
are gonna cost a bit more. Such is the choices one makes in life.
I'm planning on the 17-85 and I'll sell it with the body if I ever decide
to go to full frame. I've been hoping for a 28-105 IS lens for years and
Canon has finally (in an odd way) produced one for me. Now I want a 70-200
f4 IS and I'll be a happy man - for a while.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"Michael Benveniste" wrote in message
...
On 20 Aug 2004 17:57:50 -0400,
(Stephen H. Westin) wrote:

Of course, the Mk II buyer gets a wider field of view with the 14mm
f:2.8L USM than is possible with any Canon lens on the 20D.

Hmmm. 14x1.3 = 18.2mm. 10x1.6 = 16mm. Am I missing something?

I don't mean this as a slam against the 14mm, which I assume is an
extraordinary lens, but $1700+ is a lot of money for a 91 degree
field of view.

Well, that's the pitfall in buying expensive toys. For those
who need 8 fps, or better autofocus, or more ruggedness, or
probably a bit less noise due to the larger sensor, the Mk II
still makes perfect sense.

As I said, for certain pros, it's a no-brainer. Still, a $3000
difference per body will make a lot more pros look twice. If Canon's
claims for the D20's noise levels are valid, image quality is going to
be an interesting horse race.

Since the EF-S lenses only fit newer models, I don't have to
wonder where this leaves current D30, D60, and 10D owners.
Without a 10-22mm zoom. Which is where they were before the
announcement.

And now without any realistic chance of getting anything wider than an
effective 22mm from Canon. Before, they could have at least hoped
that the EF-S mount 18-55mm was just a one shot.

I understand what you're saying, and this sort of uncertainty is one
reason I haven't bought a DSLR yet. But Canon, Nikon and the rest
depend on us amateurs buying expensive toys for a goodly chunk of
their camera revenue. From my spot on the DSLR sidelines, making
these EF-S lenses incompatible with older bodies is a marketing error
by Canon.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:57:21 +0000, Brian C. Baird wrote:

Er, bird & nature photography? Photojournalism? All big Canon digital
markets.

In my experience there seem to be more Nikon users in those fields, but I
could be wrong.

Amazing, absolutely no pro-level gear there. Well, maybe the 550 EX, but
show me ANY flash unit that can withstand sustained abuse.

Ahh...somebody finally sees what I have been trying to tell these
Philistines for the past few days - I had NO pro Canon gear.

Good luck finding a grip for the D70, BTW.

Don't need one. I like it small. If I want to impress anyone with size I
will whip out my F4s!

--
Dallas
www.dallasdahms.com
"Is that a Nikon? Omigod! Can I touch it?"

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:57:21 +0000, Brian C. Baird wrote:

Er, bird & nature photography? Photojournalism? All big Canon digital
markets.

In my experience there seem to be more Nikon users in those fields, but I
could be wrong.

Amazing, absolutely no pro-level gear there. Well, maybe the 550 EX, but
show me ANY flash unit that can withstand sustained abuse.

Ahh...somebody finally sees what I have been trying to tell these
Philistines for the past few days - I had NO pro Canon gear.

Good luck finding a grip for the D70, BTW.

Don't need one. I like it small. If I want to impress anyone with size I
will whip out my F4s!

--
Dallas
www.dallasdahms.com
"Is that a Nikon? Omigod! Can I touch it?"

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:28:10 -0400, Michael Benveniste wrote:

"Stephen H. Westin" wrote:
20D ---- aka "D70 Killer"
Wouldn't that be "D100 Killer"?

Yep. The $1000 mark is a psychological barrier -- plenty of people will
accept 6mp for $1000 rather than 8mp for $1500. But for someone buying
without any gear in either system, I can't imagine anyone choosing a D100
over the 20D.

Given recent history, expect a "me too" offering from Nikon anywhere from
6 months to 2 years from now.

But I wonder where this leaves the 1D Mark II owners? On a
feature-for-feature basis, the Mark II trounced the D2H, and still does.
But a Mark II costs $3000 more than a 20D, and the only way to get the
same wide angle coverage as the new 10-22 is to buy a Sigma lens! For
certain pros, the Mark II is a no-brainer, but I wonder how many
"prosumers" are kicking themselves right now.

Since the EF-S lenses only fit newer models, I don't have to wonder where
this leaves current D30, D60, and 10D owners.

Ahhh...I didn't know that. Is the mighty EOS system beginning to come
apart at its "we've got total system compatibility" seams???

Thank God I got rid of my D60 two days ago! I might have lost even more
equity. I'm wondering how long it will be before we have disposable
digital cameras. Canon seems to be making so many consumer DSLR's, so
often that they might as well claim to be leaders in that field already.

D30, D60, 10D, 300D & now 20D, all in the space of three years. Gotta love
that company's faith in its own customer base.

--
Dallas
www.dallasdahms.com

"Annika1980" wrote in message
...
From: "Matt Clara" nse

Giving Annika/Bret his due, he's nowhere near as irritating as
the Prediot.



Oh, but he was then, and then some!




-Annika ----- often imitated, never duplicated


Or at least triplicated. I remember EOS1VDfan. I wonder if he ever got the
irony of his nic...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"nikonpro" wrote in message
...
On 20 Aug 2004 13:07:10 -0400,
(Stephen H. Westin) wrote:

(Annika1980) writes:

Wow, look at all the great new products announced today by the industry
leader,
Canon.

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/CIWPRList.jsp?a=b

20D ---- aka "D70 Killer"

Wouldn't that be "D100 Killer"?

300D/Digital Rebel/Digital Kiss70 as 10D100.
I'm guessing that the 20D replaces the 10D at a similar price level,
rather
than replacing the 300D at much less than the 10D.

snip

If it's a D100 killer, itsbeen a few years in coming. Canon - get
with the program

The D100 is pretty much a dead issue, on its own, isn't it? The sales of
the Fuji S2/3, D70 and 10D pretty much buried it. From what I've observed,
it wasn't much of a camera, compared to it's peers. Better than the D60,
true, but that's not saying much. (Sorry, Bret.)

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Michael Benveniste" wrote in message
...


But I wonder where this leaves the 1D Mark II owners? On a
feature-for-feature basis, the Mark II trounced the D2H, and
still does. But a Mark II costs $3000 more than a 20D, and
the only way to get the same wide angle coverage as the new
10-22 is to buy a Sigma lens! For certain pros, the Mark II
is a no-brainer, but I wonder how many "prosumers" are
kicking themselves right now.

Since the EF-S lenses only fit newer models, I don't have to
wonder where this leaves current D30, D60, and 10D owners.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.


Well, I don't know about other 1D mkII owners, but my buddy who just bought
one a little over a month ago had a succinct comment today when I called
him, "F*** Canon!" I tried to warn him, but, no, he just had to buy that 1D
mkII...
As far as this current D30 and 10D owner, we just ordered 2 20Ds, one with
the 17-85 IS.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Michael Benveniste" wrote in message
...


But I wonder where this leaves the 1D Mark II owners? On a
feature-for-feature basis, the Mark II trounced the D2H, and
still does. But a Mark II costs $3000 more than a 20D, and
the only way to get the same wide angle coverage as the new
10-22 is to buy a Sigma lens! For certain pros, the Mark II
is a no-brainer, but I wonder how many "prosumers" are
kicking themselves right now.

Since the EF-S lenses only fit newer models, I don't have to
wonder where this leaves current D30, D60, and 10D owners.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.


Well, I don't know about other 1D mkII owners, but my buddy who just bought
one a little over a month ago had a succinct comment today when I called
him, "F*** Canon!" I tried to warn him, but, no, he just had to buy that 1D
mkII...
As far as this current D30 and 10D owner, we just ordered 2 20Ds, one with
the 17-85 IS.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com