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How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 29th 08, 03:51 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Aaron Kuperman
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Posts: 2
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

How many megapixels does a digital camera need to produce an 8" by
10" print equivalent in quality to what one would get from a 35 mm camera
(or for that matter a larger format) shooting a top of the run film, such
as a major brand 100-125 ASA color (or black and white) film.

The bottom line, if I replace a film camera with a digital, and want the
same quality enlargements, am I talking about the current models now
available (costing perhaps $500 to a bit over $1000), typically with
roughly 10 MP, or am I talking about something not designed for other than
professional use such as the $8000 Canon with 21 mp, or perhpas something
yet to be invented.
  #2  
Old May 29th 08, 04:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
[email protected]
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Posts: 222
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

Aaron Kuperman wrote:
How many megapixels does a digital camera need to produce an 8" by
10" print equivalent in quality to what one would get from a 35 mm camera
(or for that matter a larger format) shooting a top of the run film, such
as a major brand 100-125 ASA color (or black and white) film.

The bottom line, if I replace a film camera with a digital, and want the
same quality enlargements, am I talking about the current models now
available (costing perhaps $500 to a bit over $1000), typically with
roughly 10 MP, or am I talking about something not designed for other than
professional use such as the $8000 Canon with 21 mp, or perhpas something
yet to be invented.


A first rate Canon or Nikon SLR with 8 MP and a first rate lens both manufacturers
make equally good lenses) will easily outdo any 35 mm camera with ASA 125
color film. With more than 8 MP you will need better and better lenses (read:
zooms need not apply except at absolute best f/number) to get actually better.

Doug McDonald
  #3  
Old May 29th 08, 05:17 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
ray
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Posts: 2,278
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

On Thu, 29 May 2008 14:51:29 +0000, Aaron Kuperman wrote:

How many megapixels does a digital camera need to produce an 8" by 10"
print equivalent in quality to what one would get from a 35 mm camera
(or for that matter a larger format) shooting a top of the run film,
such as a major brand 100-125 ASA color (or black and white) film.


If your criteria is printing an 8x10 - about 2mp suffices, IMHO. If you're
actually querying about matching 35mm you'll get a bunch of answers, most
of which will probably range from around 8mp to 20mp.


The bottom line, if I replace a film camera with a digital, and want the
same quality enlargements, am I talking about the current models now
available (costing perhaps $500 to a bit over $1000), typically with
roughly 10 MP, or am I talking about something not designed for other
than professional use such as the $8000 Canon with 21 mp, or perhpas
something yet to be invented.


  #4  
Old May 29th 08, 09:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
G Paleologopoulos
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Posts: 136
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

"Joseph Meehan" wrote
...

You are trying to compare apples and orange. The answers you are going
to get will mostly be all good and accurate answers, they will still be
opinions. Mostly good opinions.

Quick and dirty, I would put it about about 8-10 MP.

"Aaron Kuperman" wrote in message
...
How many megapixels does a digital camera need to produce an 8" by
10" print equivalent in quality to what one would get from a 35 mm camera




Since when have megapixels been equated to quality???
My undertanding was that dynamic range, color accuracy, absence of noise,
etc...etc... are measures of quality.
Megapixies are somewhat related to resolution and acutance, but that's about
it.

  #6  
Old May 30th 08, 12:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mark Thomas
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Posts: 835
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

G Paleologopoulos wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote
...

You are trying to compare apples and orange. The answers you are
going to get will mostly be all good and accurate answers, they will
still be opinions. Mostly good opinions.

Quick and dirty, I would put it about about 8-10 MP.

"Aaron Kuperman" wrote in message
...
How many megapixels does a digital camera need to produce an 8" by
10" print equivalent in quality to what one would get from a 35 mm
camera




Since when have megapixels been equated to quality???


Since marketing guru's needed just one number to throw at people...

So why not add your view, then?

My undertanding was that dynamic range

Good (ie large) digital sensors have a dynamic range that is comparable
to the best print film (about 9-10 stops) but the 'heel and toe'
behaviour is different, so it is difficult to directly compare and some
folk still maintain that print film has the edge. (However, ask those
folk to *show* how they get more than 9 stops out of a negative, and
things go quiet).

The better large sensors and full-frames, imo, definitely offer better
usable dynamic range. And digital processing techniques like HDR allow
much more convenient manipulation of dynamic range, depending on your
subject matter.

The fact that the OP didn't mention what he shot or what films he used,
tends to suggest that this might not be a very serious enquiry.

color accuracy

Digitals are more accurate and repeatable, but you will hear those who
refer to the plastic look.. Which is more about low noise and lack of
grain, I think, or perhaps that they have only seen web-sized images.

However, if you like the very distinctive look (aka 'inaccuracy' (O of
some films, eg Velvia, Reala, Kodachrome, NPS/NPH, etc, you may find it
hard to emulate those...


absence of noise

Noise in digitals looks quite different to grain in film. Most small
sensor cameras have significant issues at anything over 200 ISO
equivalent (just like film..) but larger sensors (ie those in DSLRs) run
rings around high-speed film.

As to the original question, here's my opinion, assuming a reasonable
sized sensor...

Normal 100-200 print film - 6-8 Mp
Pro quality 100-160 print film - 8-12 Mp
Slide film* (Velvia, Kchrome) - 12-24 Mp

* - plus a good lens, tripod and lots of light.. (O:
  #7  
Old May 30th 08, 12:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Malcolm Smith[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

There is a highly technical web site by a guy whose name is Norman Koren (I
think correct spelling) re this question - If I remember correctly his
conclusion is around 8Mp to equal 35 mm film. You should be able to google
this article but it is heavy going. the reason the Mp is so low is digital
sharpening (which seems to challenge many of those those on thiese groups).

Of course other posters have pointed out that this is not the only
consideration. A very important factor is the size of the sensor with
DSLR's much larger than most point and shoot cameras and therefore DSLR's
will have markedly less noise.

Anyway look up Norman Koren
Malcolm


  #8  
Old May 30th 08, 01:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Malcolm Smith[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

Try this link

http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF7.html


Malcolm


  #9  
Old May 30th 08, 06:17 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David J Taylor[_5_]
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Posts: 923
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

Malcolm Smith wrote:
Try this link

http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF7.html


Malcolm


Thanks for that pointer - useful information but a little stale.

Cheers,
David


  #10  
Old May 30th 08, 06:54 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Malcolm Smith[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default How many megapixcels equivalent to 35 mm in quality

I would be intereested in you pointing me to something less stale!
Presumably to be stale you must have seen soemthing more recent to make
Nornam Koran article stale.

Malcolm


 




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