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Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 25th 04, 07:36 PM
PATRICK GAINER
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Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?



Dan Quinn wrote:

I've been using FX-1 for Pan F+ but think it will yield too much
grain with HP5, Tri X, and Delta 3200.

I'm considering FX-13 which is a FX-1 type but is loaded with sulfite.
That is something of a contradiction. D76, D23, and others, which are
easy Homebrews, may be good choices. I'd like to steer clear of any
phenidone included developers. Dan


Surprised you haven't tried www.unblinkineye.com on ascorbate developers.
No sulfite. Use metol or phenidone, ascorbic or erythorbis (isoascorbic)
acid. The rest you can get at the hardware or grocery store.

  #2  
Old July 25th 04, 11:14 PM
Richard Knoppow
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Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?


"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
I've been using FX-1 for Pan F+ but think it will yield

too much
grain with HP5, Tri X, and Delta 3200.

I'm considering FX-13 which is a FX-1 type but is loaded

with sulfite.
That is something of a contradiction. D76, D23, and

others, which are
easy Homebrews, may be good choices. I'd like to steer

clear of any
phenidone included developers.

Dan

Why do you want to avoid Phenidone?
Why avoid sulfite?
How much speed do you want from the film?

D-76 yields close to the maximum speed for many films but
is not the best choice for pushing a film like Delta 3200.
It gives a good balance of speed vs: grain. If you mix your
own D-76 use the buffered formula with 8 grams of Borax and
8 grams of Boric acid per liter and reduce the sulfite to 80
grams per liter. This will give you slightly better
performance than the original formula.
Also, if you use it diluted 1:1 you might want to mix it
using half the amount of all ingredients except the sulfite.
That will result in slightly finer grain and possibly
slightly higher speed than just diluting it. Sulfite doesn't
work the way most people think it does.
All of the films named above will be grainy compared to
Pan F+ regardless of the developer.
For the very maximum speed out of Delta 3200 or Kodak
T-Max P3200 use T-Max RS. Of course its not home brew and
does have Phenidone in it despite its non-appearance in the
MSDS.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA






  #3  
Old July 25th 04, 11:14 PM
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?


"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
I've been using FX-1 for Pan F+ but think it will yield

too much
grain with HP5, Tri X, and Delta 3200.

I'm considering FX-13 which is a FX-1 type but is loaded

with sulfite.
That is something of a contradiction. D76, D23, and

others, which are
easy Homebrews, may be good choices. I'd like to steer

clear of any
phenidone included developers.

Dan

Why do you want to avoid Phenidone?
Why avoid sulfite?
How much speed do you want from the film?

D-76 yields close to the maximum speed for many films but
is not the best choice for pushing a film like Delta 3200.
It gives a good balance of speed vs: grain. If you mix your
own D-76 use the buffered formula with 8 grams of Borax and
8 grams of Boric acid per liter and reduce the sulfite to 80
grams per liter. This will give you slightly better
performance than the original formula.
Also, if you use it diluted 1:1 you might want to mix it
using half the amount of all ingredients except the sulfite.
That will result in slightly finer grain and possibly
slightly higher speed than just diluting it. Sulfite doesn't
work the way most people think it does.
All of the films named above will be grainy compared to
Pan F+ regardless of the developer.
For the very maximum speed out of Delta 3200 or Kodak
T-Max P3200 use T-Max RS. Of course its not home brew and
does have Phenidone in it despite its non-appearance in the
MSDS.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA






  #4  
Old July 26th 04, 03:34 AM
Michael Scarpitti
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Posts: n/a
Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?

"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message ...
"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
I've been using FX-1 for Pan F+ but think it will yield

too much
grain with HP5, Tri X, and Delta 3200.

I'm considering FX-13 which is a FX-1 type but is loaded

with sulfite.
That is something of a contradiction. D76, D23, and

others, which are
easy Homebrews, may be good choices. I'd like to steer

clear of any
phenidone included developers.

Dan

Why do you want to avoid Phenidone?
Why avoid sulfite?
How much speed do you want from the film?

D-76 yields close to the maximum speed for many films but
is not the best choice for pushing a film like Delta 3200.
It gives a good balance of speed vs: grain. If you mix your
own D-76 use the buffered formula with 8 grams of Borax and
8 grams of Boric acid per liter and reduce the sulfite to 80
grams per liter. This will give you slightly better
performance than the original formula.
Also, if you use it diluted 1:1 you might want to mix it
using half the amount of all ingredients except the sulfite.
That will result in slightly finer grain and possibly
slightly higher speed than just diluting it. Sulfite doesn't
work the way most people think it does.
All of the films named above will be grainy compared to
Pan F+ regardless of the developer.
For the very maximum speed out of Delta 3200 or Kodak
T-Max P3200 use T-Max RS. Of course its not home brew and
does have Phenidone in it despite its non-appearance in the
MSDS.




I'd suggest ID-68 for what it's worth.
  #5  
Old July 27th 04, 12:23 AM
Dan Quinn
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Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?

"Richard Knoppow" wrote

Why do you want to avoid Phenidone?


The phenidone I have on hand is a few years old. If it were
fresh I'd likely still not use it because of consistency and usefull
life expectancy concerns.


Why avoid sulfite?


Save for it's preservation property I've no use for it
at this time. A less than 1% addition of it will keep a one-shot
developer clear long enough. Also sulfite is an alkali and
affects ph.
Mr. Gainer suggested Ascorbic acid. It will preserve but do
so too well. If I'm correct, Vit. C will regenerate metol. That's
OK if local depletion is not wished. Sulfite on the other hand
will preserve but not regenerate. Mr. Gainer can correct me if
I'm wrong.


How much speed do you want from the film?


A low ph developer such as D25, a metol-sulfite/bisulfite mix,
gives low speed. I think metol needs a higher ph to deliver full
speed. It's a matter of grain versus speed. ISO 800 will do.
If the grain is more than I care for a lower speed film
will have to do. Dan
  #6  
Old July 27th 04, 12:36 AM
Jorge Omar
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Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?

Michael

I've seen the unnamed formula you've posted refered as Kendal Microphen.
There's still another one, posted in photo.net by Tomasz Klimkiewicz with
components that are closer to the MSDS:

Sodium sulfite - 100 g
Hydroquinone - 5 g
Phenidone - 0.2 g
Borax - 6.8 g
Boric acid - 2.7 g
Sodium metabisulphite - 0.65 g
Potassium bromide - 1.0 g
Water to make - 1000 ml

Jorge

(Michael Scarpitti) wrote in
om:

There is an unnamed phenidone formula that is a little different from
ID-68 that is supposed to be close to Microphen:

Sod. Sulphite Anhy. 100g
Hydro. 5g
Borax 3g
Boric Acid 3.5
Pot. Bromide 1
Phenidone 0.2
Add cold water to make - 1000 mL

Here's ID-68:
Sodium Sulfite (desiccated) -85.0 grams
Hydroquinone - 5.0 grams
Borax 7.0 - grams
Boric Acid - 2.0 grams
Potassium Bromide - 1.0 grams
Phenidone - 0.13 grams
Add cold water to make - 1000 mL



Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA



  #9  
Old July 27th 04, 11:44 PM
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?


"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
"Richard Knoppow" wrote

Why do you want to avoid Phenidone?


The phenidone I have on hand is a few years old. If

it were
fresh I'd likely still not use it because of consistency

and usefull
life expectancy concerns.


Why avoid sulfite?


Save for it's preservation property I've no use for

it
at this time. A less than 1% addition of it will keep a

one-shot
developer clear long enough. Also sulfite is an alkali and
affects ph.
Mr. Gainer suggested Ascorbic acid. It will preserve

but do
so too well. If I'm correct, Vit. C will regenerate metol.

That's
OK if local depletion is not wished. Sulfite on the other

hand
will preserve but not regenerate. Mr. Gainer can correct

me if
I'm wrong.


How much speed do you want from the film?


A low ph developer such as D25, a

metol-sulfite/bisulfite mix,
gives low speed. I think metol needs a higher ph to

deliver full
speed. It's a matter of grain versus speed. ISO 800 will

do.
If the grain is more than I care for a lower speed film
will have to do.

Dan

The speed loss in D-25 is due to mostly to the solvent
action of the sulfite. When this solvent action is moderate,
as in D-76 or D-23, it exposes more development centers in
the silver halide crystals increasing speed. When the action
is greater, as in D-25 and Microdol-X, it etches away some
of the development specs reducing the speed. In effect, it
destroys some of the latent image. This is the price for the
extra-fine-grain property of these developers. When they are
diluted the ratio of development time to dilution is not
linear so the effective solvent action is reduced. At 1:3
D-25, Microdol-X, Perctptol, and similar developers deliver
full film speed but lose their extra-fine-grain property.
There is a mutually regenerative effect between Metol or
Phenidone and Hyroquinone. This is a different effect than
the effect of Sulfite which is to prevent the production of
the reaction products. Ascorbic acid will not take the place
of sulfite although there are organic compounds which will.
These are used in liquid concentrate developers. The effects
of Sulfite are many in developers. The effects are well
covered in highly technical books on photographic chemistry.
I think they are understandable even if one does not have an
advanced understanding of chemistry. All of these are old
and must be found in libraries. The classic is _Theory of
the Photographic Process, C.E.K. Meese.
I think Ryuji Suzuki has some stuff about ascorbic acid
developers on his web site: http://www.silvergrain.org


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA



  #10  
Old July 27th 04, 11:44 PM
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Which Homebrew for High Speed Film?


"Dan Quinn" wrote in message
om...
"Richard Knoppow" wrote

Why do you want to avoid Phenidone?


The phenidone I have on hand is a few years old. If

it were
fresh I'd likely still not use it because of consistency

and usefull
life expectancy concerns.


Why avoid sulfite?


Save for it's preservation property I've no use for

it
at this time. A less than 1% addition of it will keep a

one-shot
developer clear long enough. Also sulfite is an alkali and
affects ph.
Mr. Gainer suggested Ascorbic acid. It will preserve

but do
so too well. If I'm correct, Vit. C will regenerate metol.

That's
OK if local depletion is not wished. Sulfite on the other

hand
will preserve but not regenerate. Mr. Gainer can correct

me if
I'm wrong.


How much speed do you want from the film?


A low ph developer such as D25, a

metol-sulfite/bisulfite mix,
gives low speed. I think metol needs a higher ph to

deliver full
speed. It's a matter of grain versus speed. ISO 800 will

do.
If the grain is more than I care for a lower speed film
will have to do.

Dan

The speed loss in D-25 is due to mostly to the solvent
action of the sulfite. When this solvent action is moderate,
as in D-76 or D-23, it exposes more development centers in
the silver halide crystals increasing speed. When the action
is greater, as in D-25 and Microdol-X, it etches away some
of the development specs reducing the speed. In effect, it
destroys some of the latent image. This is the price for the
extra-fine-grain property of these developers. When they are
diluted the ratio of development time to dilution is not
linear so the effective solvent action is reduced. At 1:3
D-25, Microdol-X, Perctptol, and similar developers deliver
full film speed but lose their extra-fine-grain property.
There is a mutually regenerative effect between Metol or
Phenidone and Hyroquinone. This is a different effect than
the effect of Sulfite which is to prevent the production of
the reaction products. Ascorbic acid will not take the place
of sulfite although there are organic compounds which will.
These are used in liquid concentrate developers. The effects
of Sulfite are many in developers. The effects are well
covered in highly technical books on photographic chemistry.
I think they are understandable even if one does not have an
advanced understanding of chemistry. All of these are old
and must be found in libraries. The classic is _Theory of
the Photographic Process, C.E.K. Meese.
I think Ryuji Suzuki has some stuff about ascorbic acid
developers on his web site: http://www.silvergrain.org


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA



 




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