Medium Format Digital.....Practical?

I Googled on Medium Format Digital Cameras in an effort to find the "ne
plus ultra" in digital cameras, not just digital backs..Price no object.
It appears that the Hasselblad H3D-39 may be that camera. "Hassy" has a
reputation for uncompromising quality in medium format FILM cameras
The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!
Although this sounds very impressive, that works out to be a pixel pitch
of ONLY 6.8 microns. Not bad...It's slightly larger than the Canon 30D
(6.5microns) but not as large as the Canon 5D (8.2microns).
I wonder if Hassy has decided that a 6.8 micron pixel pitch is the sweet
spot in sensors and going any higher produces diminishing returns.

Strangely, I have not seen any high quality images from this camera on
the web or from this NG.
Does anyone have this camera or any other digital MF camera.
How do the images compare to those from a top end DSLR?
Bob Williams

The Luminous Landscape has some examples and reviews of MF digital cameras
and digital backs with examples - you should have a look. the hassalblad is
very new (if the one I am thinking about) so may not be many example shots
around yet.

Malcolm

In article , Bob Williams says...

The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!

And that's only for the body. How much do you have to pay for a set of
lenses covering the range 15-150mm (equiv.), capable to support a sensor
resolution of 39MP? I can imagine that not every lens is capable of
that.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E3X0, E4X0 and E5X0 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

Bob Williams wrote:
I Googled on Medium Format Digital Cameras in an effort to find the "ne
plus ultra" in digital cameras, not just digital backs..Price no object.
It appears that the Hasselblad H3D-39 may be that camera. "Hassy" has a
reputation for uncompromising quality in medium format FILM cameras
The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!
Although this sounds very impressive, that works out to be a pixel pitch
of ONLY 6.8 microns. Not bad...It's slightly larger than the Canon 30D
(6.5microns) but not as large as the Canon 5D (8.2microns).
I wonder if Hassy has decided that a 6.8 micron pixel pitch is the sweet
spot in sensors and going any higher produces diminishing returns.

Strangely, I have not seen any high quality images from this camera on
the web or from this NG.
Does anyone have this camera or any other digital MF camera.
How do the images compare to those from a top end DSLR?
Bob Williams

If you go to:
http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h...esolution.aspx
then there's some indication for you of what MF digital can
do. If you search DPReview forums, a contributor there also
put a link to some H3D 39 raw samples that could be
downloaded. He may have removed them as they were rather
large files, and IIRC he was mumbling about keeping them
there only until his bandwidth cap was reached.
Mamiya had full size samples from the ZD (22mp) on their
Japan site, but they've been removed.
My subjective opinion is that the ZD samples look better -
but not much better than even 12mp APS-c or 35mm dslr (5d).
Whether it's worth the hassle of a somewhat clunky slow
frame rate dslr to get just a little more resolution is IMO
a bit dubious. OTOH if you had the lenses and film body,
then a ZD back would be tempting at "only" about the price
of a Canon 1DsIII. I think with volume / technology, the
mass market dslr makers have got some advantage in sensor
technology and optimising performance.
But the H3D samples I've seen are outstanding.

"Alfred Molon" wrote:
In article , Bob Williams says...

The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!

And that's only for the body. How much do you have to pay for a set of
lenses covering the range 15-150mm (equiv.), capable to support a sensor
resolution of 39MP? I can imagine that not every lens is capable of
that.

If you can afford the body, you can afford the lenses. (They're US$3,000 to
4,000 a pop.)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/5...es_Lenses.html

Interesting: they've got a 28mm lens now. That's a 21mm equivalent, which is
quite respectably wide. (17mm equivalent is fun, but I spent several happy
years with my Mamiya 645 + 35/3.5.)

Also, (responding to someone else) the H-series is one of the least clunky
MF cameras. But you don't shoot sports and birds with MF cameras, you shoot
fashion and landscape and architecture and weddings. Subjects where you have
quite a bit of time to set up (or at least plan) the shots. And where print
quality at larger sizes is important.

So, is the H3D practical? At 39MP it'll be well over medium format film
quality and produce 18 x 24 prints you can put your nose on (300 ppi) and 21
x 28 prints that'll leave even snotty MF photographers such as myself with
our jaws on the ground. If you need that and it's worth US$50,000 to you,
it's practical. Otherwise it isn't.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

"David J. Littleboy" wrote in message
...

"Alfred Molon" wrote:
In article , Bob Williams says...

The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!

And that's only for the body. How much do you have to pay for a set of
lenses covering the range 15-150mm (equiv.), capable to support a sensor
resolution of 39MP? I can imagine that not every lens is capable of
that.

If you can afford the body, you can afford the lenses. (They're US$3,000
to 4,000 a pop.)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/5...es_Lenses.html

Interesting: they've got a 28mm lens now. That's a 21mm equivalent, which
is quite respectably wide. (17mm equivalent is fun, but I spent several
happy years with my Mamiya 645 + 35/3.5.)

Also, (responding to someone else) the H-series is one of the least clunky
MF cameras. But you don't shoot sports and birds with MF cameras, you
shoot fashion and landscape and architecture and weddings. Subjects where
you have quite a bit of time to set up (or at least plan) the shots. And
where print quality at larger sizes is important.

So, is the H3D practical? At 39MP it'll be well over medium format film
quality and produce 18 x 24 prints you can put your nose on (300 ppi) and
21 x 28 prints that'll leave even snotty MF photographers such as myself
with our jaws on the ground. If you need that and it's worth US$50,000 to
you, it's practical. Otherwise it isn't.

I think it´s only for commercial advertising photographers that need to make
very large posters that are also sharp at close-up. For anything else it´s
"overkill" and too slow. ISO range of only 50-400 and a maximum shutterspeed
of 1/800 makes it´s just about the slowest DSLR on the market today.
I would think for most pro´s the new Nikon D3 will do much more and for a
fraction of the price ;-)))

Bob Williams wrote:
I Googled on Medium Format Digital Cameras in an effort to find the "ne
plus ultra" in digital cameras, not just digital backs..Price no object.
It appears that the Hasselblad H3D-39 may be that camera. "Hassy" has a
reputation for uncompromising quality in medium format FILM cameras
The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!
Although this sounds very impressive, that works out to be a pixel pitch
of ONLY 6.8 microns. Not bad...It's slightly larger than the Canon 30D
(6.5microns) but not as large as the Canon 5D (8.2microns).
I wonder if Hassy has decided that a 6.8 micron pixel pitch is the sweet
spot in sensors and going any higher produces diminishing returns.

Strangely, I have not seen any high quality images from this camera on
the web or from this NG.
Does anyone have this camera or any other digital MF camera.
How do the images compare to those from a top end DSLR?
Bob Williams

A camera that expensive can't be practical for most of us.

Marvin wrote:

Bob Williams wrote:
I Googled on Medium Format Digital Cameras in an effort to find the "ne
plus ultra" in digital cameras, not just digital backs..Price no object.
It appears that the Hasselblad H3D-39 may be that camera. "Hassy" has a
reputation for uncompromising quality in medium format FILM cameras
The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!
Although this sounds very impressive, that works out to be a pixel pitch
of ONLY 6.8 microns. Not bad...It's slightly larger than the Canon 30D
(6.5microns) but not as large as the Canon 5D (8.2microns).
I wonder if Hassy has decided that a 6.8 micron pixel pitch is the sweet
spot in sensors and going any higher produces diminishing returns.

Strangely, I have not seen any high quality images from this camera on
the web or from this NG.
Does anyone have this camera or any other digital MF camera.
How do the images compare to those from a top end DSLR?
Bob Williams

A camera that expensive can't be practical for most of us.

It's the sort of thing that you know you need for a specific
application. Google tells me that you could rent one with an 80mm for
$450/day.

--
http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html

In article ,
Alfred Molon wrote:

In article , Bob Williams says...

The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is $32K,
a princely sum indeed!!

And that's only for the body. How much do you have to pay for a set of
lenses covering the range 15-150mm (equiv.), capable to support a sensor
resolution of 39MP? I can imagine that not every lens is capable of
that.

What's practical for one person may be impractical for another person. I
have met a few digital photographers who insisted they shoot medium
format, but they have the money to pay for it; I don't. For me, medium
format is totally impractical, for them its practical.

frederick wrote:

Bob Williams wrote:

I Googled on Medium Format Digital Cameras in an effort to find the
"ne plus ultra" in digital cameras, not just digital backs..Price no
object.
It appears that the Hasselblad H3D-39 may be that camera. "Hassy" has
a reputation for uncompromising quality in medium format FILM cameras
The H3D-39's 49x36.7 mm sensor captures 39 MP. Its street price is
$32K, a princely sum indeed!!
Although this sounds very impressive, that works out to be a pixel
pitch of ONLY 6.8 microns. Not bad...It's slightly larger than the
Canon 30D (6.5microns) but not as large as the Canon 5D (8.2microns).
I wonder if Hassy has decided that a 6.8 micron pixel pitch is the
sweet spot in sensors and going any higher produces diminishing returns.

Strangely, I have not seen any high quality images from this camera on
the web or from this NG.
Does anyone have this camera or any other digital MF camera.
How do the images compare to those from a top end DSLR?
Bob Williams


If you go to:
http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h...esolution.aspx

Hmm, really not all that much more detail. I guess if you look at the
difference from a $500 compact to a $5,000 DSLR setup to this for
$50,000 it's about right though.

then there's some indication for you of what MF digital can do. If you
search DPReview forums, a contributor there also put a link to some H3D
39 raw samples that could be downloaded. He may have removed them as
they were rather large files, and IIRC he was mumbling about keeping
them there only until his bandwidth cap was reached.
Mamiya had full size samples from the ZD (22mp) on their Japan site, but
they've been removed.
My subjective opinion is that the ZD samples look better - but not much
better than even 12mp APS-c or 35mm dslr (5d). Whether it's worth the
hassle of a somewhat clunky slow frame rate dslr to get just a little
more resolution is IMO a bit dubious. OTOH if you had the lenses and
film body, then a ZD back would be tempting at "only" about the price of
a Canon 1DsIII. I think with volume / technology, the mass market dslr
makers have got some advantage in sensor technology and optimising
performance.
But the H3D samples I've seen are outstanding.


--
Paul Furman Photography
http://edgehill.net
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com