single bath sodium sulfide toner?

Hello All,

I have been reading lots of posts about sepia toners, and I wonder why
it is not possible to simply immerse a print in solution of sodium
sulfide to get sepia tone? This should convert the silver to silver
sulfide, surely?

All formulae so far seem to suggest that the print should be bleached
and "redeveloped" in a "brown toner" which essentially gives sulfide.

I have been using thiourea toner bleach and redevelop), and got
yellow/brown colour, but want to avoid using Thiourea. I hope sodium
sulfide is a lesser evil.

Thanks,
Sreenath

"Lloyd" Lloyd AT the-wire DOT com wrote

Is the toxicity of thiourera really a problem?

MSDS indicates:

Thiourea is a carcinogen in rats. Most things are
carcinogens in rats given a high enough dose.
Nobody has tried chili peppers yet, but I'll bet...

LD50 (1/2 the rats die) is ~100mg/kg or 10gm for a
220 lb. man.

Reacts (sometimes violently) with fatty acids.
So does soap. Should lower your cholesterol.

No safe level has been established.

It occurs naturally. Like, man, it's organic --
so like, it's got to be good for you. Heavy, yeah.
Hasn't damaged my brain, like ... yeah, like, like ...
where were we, man?

--------

If I was worried I would use a smelly sulfide toner.

I am not worried; but then a whiff of rotten egg doesn't
upset me - brings back memories of the school cafeteria.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Lloyd wrote:
On 27 Jul 2004 22:53:51 -0700,
(sreenath) wrote:

Just my thoughts, since hydrogen sulfide gas is an
unpleasantness...

Hydrogen sulfide is much more than an unpleasantness -- it's more toxic
than hydrogen cyanide, and in concentrations well below the toxic level
will burn out the receptors in your nose so you can't smell it at all,
meaning you'll quit smelling it before it gets strong enough to kill you.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:43:05 GMT, Donald Qualls
wrote:

Lloyd wrote:
On 27 Jul 2004 22:53:51 -0700,
(sreenath) wrote:

Just my thoughts, since hydrogen sulfide gas is an
unpleasantness...

Hydrogen sulfide is much more than an unpleasantness -- it's more toxic
than hydrogen cyanide, and in concentrations well below the toxic level
will burn out the receptors in your nose so you can't smell it at all,
meaning you'll quit smelling it before it gets strong enough to kill you.


jul3004 from Lloyd Erlick,

Yes, the fact it numbs out the smell sensors has led to
deaths in mine accidents.

But hydrogen sulfide gas starts to be a nuisance long before
it gets to danger levels. You don't need to use sodium
sulfide -- just fill up on some nice baked beans, canned if
possible, and head into the darkroom, close that door...

Anyway, darkroom smell abatement program in effect around
here. No hydrogen sulfide, sulfur dioxide, acetic acid, etc
etc...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:43:05 GMT, Donald Qualls
wrote:

Lloyd wrote:
On 27 Jul 2004 22:53:51 -0700,
(sreenath) wrote:

Just my thoughts, since hydrogen sulfide gas is an
unpleasantness...

Hydrogen sulfide is much more than an unpleasantness -- it's more toxic
than hydrogen cyanide, and in concentrations well below the toxic level
will burn out the receptors in your nose so you can't smell it at all,
meaning you'll quit smelling it before it gets strong enough to kill you.


jul3004 from Lloyd Erlick,

Yes, the fact it numbs out the smell sensors has led to
deaths in mine accidents.

But hydrogen sulfide gas starts to be a nuisance long before
it gets to danger levels. You don't need to use sodium
sulfide -- just fill up on some nice baked beans, canned if
possible, and head into the darkroom, close that door...

Anyway, darkroom smell abatement program in effect around
here. No hydrogen sulfide, sulfur dioxide, acetic acid, etc
etc...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________

Lloyd wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:43:05 GMT, Donald Qualls
wrote:

Hydrogen sulfide is much more than an unpleasantness -- it's more toxic
than hydrogen cyanide, and in concentrations well below the toxic level
will burn out the receptors in your nose so you can't smell it at all,
meaning you'll quit smelling it before it gets strong enough to kill you.



jul3004 from Lloyd Erlick,

Yes, the fact it numbs out the smell sensors has led to
deaths in mine accidents.

It's also one of the more common causes of death on small-company
fishing boats. Lose refrigeration, fish in the hold start to spoil,
captain sends a man in to shovel it out. Man doesn't come back, doesn't
answer, captain sends in another man. The record is, I believe, six men
dead from hydrogen sulfide, one after another, last one was the captain.

But hydrogen sulfide gas starts to be a nuisance long before
it gets to danger levels. You don't need to use sodium
sulfide -- just fill up on some nice baked beans, canned if
possible, and head into the darkroom, close that door...

There's a lot more than hydrogen sulfide in *that* nuisance gas...

Anyway, darkroom smell abatement program in effect around
here. No hydrogen sulfide, sulfur dioxide, acetic acid, etc
etc...

I rather like the smell of stop bath and fixer, but that's probably
because it reminds me of some of my best times in and prior to high school.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
"Lloyd" Lloyd AT the-wire DOT com wrote


Is the toxicity of thiourera really a problem?


MSDS indicates:

Thiourea is a carcinogen in rats. Most things are
carcinogens in rats given a high enough dose.
Nobody has tried chili peppers yet, but I'll bet...

LD50 (1/2 the rats die) is ~100mg/kg or 10gm for a
220 lb. man.

Reacts (sometimes violently) with fatty acids.
So does soap. Should lower your cholesterol.

No safe level has been established.

It occurs naturally. Like, man, it's organic --
so like, it's got to be good for you. Heavy, yeah.
Hasn't damaged my brain, like ... yeah, like, like ...
where were we, man?


A recent discovery shows that the presence of scientits causes cancer in rats.

LD50 (1/2 the rats die) is ~0.7 scientist/kg

Bert ;-)

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 02:23:21 GMT, Donald Qualls
wrote:
....

I rather like the smell of stop bath and fixer, but that's probably
because it reminds me of some of my best times in and prior to high school.
....

jul3104 from Lloyd Erlick,

I find the scent of non-acid fixer does the same for me.
Just plain sodium thiosulfate dissolved in water smells very
pleasant to me. And you can't smell it unless you go and
sniff it. No filling the air with odor. (Iknow, acetic acid
smells like french fries - if you're Canadian - and I even
eat fries. But not all day long. The smell has worn on me.)

regards,
--le

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 02:23:21 GMT, Donald Qualls
wrote:
....

I rather like the smell of stop bath and fixer, but that's probably
because it reminds me of some of my best times in and prior to high school.
....

jul3104 from Lloyd Erlick,

I find the scent of non-acid fixer does the same for me.
Just plain sodium thiosulfate dissolved in water smells very
pleasant to me. And you can't smell it unless you go and
sniff it. No filling the air with odor. (Iknow, acetic acid
smells like french fries - if you're Canadian - and I even
eat fries. But not all day long. The smell has worn on me.)

regards,
--le

(sreenath) wrote

Hello All,

I have been reading lots of posts about sepia toners, and I wonder why
it is not possible to simply immerse a print in solution of sodium
sulfide to get sepia tone? This should convert the silver to silver
sulfide, surely?


I think it is possible. As has been mentioned some alkali addition
may speed up the process. The IPI, Image Permanance Institute, reports
excellent results on microfilm at a dilution of 1:9,999.
I've used S. Sulfide in solution for the sulfur for silver test. I
did not notice any oder. For starters prepare a 1:99 solution.
Immerse a print with now and then agitation. Observe the
results over the next few minutes to few hours.
For archival results, a minute amount of conversion will do. That
according to the IPI. Dan