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Starting camera - Part III



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 21st 04, 05:59 PM
Scott M. Knowles
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Default Starting camera - Part III

I want to thank those who have helped with the decision about a 4x5
camera system. I plan a visit to the Seattle stores soon (Ye ole'
hands on). I have some more questions after spending the weekend
reading.

First, I've narrowed the choices to a basic entry level field camera,
such as the Toyo CF, or a basic entry level view camera, such as the
Horseman LE (these are for examples but ones I intend to initially
look at). I can understand the recommendations about buying a used
camera, but I wonder if there's any advantages to buying a new one,
besides being the first user. I can see where you get the warranty,
service and support (company and store), and a complete working system
walking out the door.

My interests are for doing hiking nature/landscape photography (mostly
day hikes and eventually 2-3 day trips) and city/townscape and
documentary photography. I'm not concerned too much about weight
since I use a big backpack, but the view camera would have to fit into
that and under ~10 lbs (camera only). I also know I will eventually
probably have both a field and view camera (yes, I intend to stay at
it, it's my post-retirement work), but I'm interested in people's view
of the initial camera (second probably 2-3 years later), either the
field or view.

Second, after reading Jim Stone's "Users Guide to View Cameras", for
the most part he recommends staying with "modern" and later lenses.
I've initally (re)decided to go with a 90mm and 150mm f5.6 (used)
lenses, and a 210/240/270mm (used) lens f5.6/8 lens later. But after
reading the specifications for the choices, there still leaves a
variety of brand and model lenses. Jim pretty much suggests that the
lenses, although different in design, will do the job, and it's
personal choice of brand and model. Is that the case or did I misread
this?

Third, exposure. The books suggest I set the exposure for both the
film and the development (time and developer). Since I'll be using a
local lab for the development (eventually relearning film
development), should I focus on the film exposure and use "standard"
lab development? The book also suggest using the second in the film
holder as a duplicate or the bracket shot. How much does one bracket
a shot?

I'm still working on the final checklist of things I need, and will
have more questions.

--Scott--
  #2  
Old June 21st 04, 06:27 PM
Peter De Smidt
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Default Starting camera - Part III

Scott M. Knowles wrote:


First, I've narrowed the choices to a basic entry level field camera,
such as the Toyo CF, or a basic entry level view camera, such as the
Horseman LE (these are for examples but ones I intend to initially
look at). I can understand the recommendations about buying a used
camera, but I wonder if there's any advantages to buying a new one,
besides being the first user. I can see where you get the warranty,
service and support (company and store), and a complete working system
walking out the door.


I highly recommend the Shen Hao field camera at www.badgergraphics.com .
It is capable, sturdy and the price is right. In addition, the people
at Badger Graphics are great.


Second, after reading Jim Stone's "Users Guide to View Cameras", for
the most part he recommends staying with "modern" and later lenses.
I've initally (re)decided to go with a 90mm and 150mm f5.6 (used)
lenses, and a 210/240/270mm (used) lens f5.6/8 lens later. But after
reading the specifications for the choices, there still leaves a
variety of brand and model lenses. Jim pretty much suggests that the
lenses, although different in design, will do the job, and it's
personal choice of brand and model. Is that the case or did I misread
this?


Old lenses can be very good. The problem, usually, is the shutter.
Even professionally cleaned, they usually aren't as accurate a modern
Copal, Compur, Prontor... So to the cost of an older lens you need to
add the expense of a good CLA (Clean, Lube, Adjust). Additionally,
filter sizes, if the lens even has filter threads, are usually of an
uncommon size.

If you're set on a 90 and a 150, I'd get a modern (1970's or later) 150,
as these can be had for a very good price. Check out the prices at
www.mpex.com before shopping anywhere else. I've had very good luck with
them, and their prices are good. Any of the big names should be good.
Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon, Fuji...


Third, exposure. The books suggest I set the exposure for both the
film and the development (time and developer). Since I'll be using a
local lab for the development (eventually relearning film
development), should I focus on the film exposure and use "standard"
lab development? The book also suggest using the second in the film
holder as a duplicate or the bracket shot. How much does one bracket
a shot?


Well, it really depends on the conditions that you'll be shooting under
and the effect that you want. Still, getting everything honed in for a
"average" negative is a pretty good way to start.

-Peter
  #4  
Old June 22nd 04, 01:10 AM
Raphael Bustin
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Posts: n/a
Default Starting camera - Part III

On 21 Jun 2004 09:59:53 -0700, (Scott M. Knowles)
wrote:

I want to thank those who have helped with the decision about a 4x5
camera system. I plan a visit to the Seattle stores soon (Ye ole'
hands on). I have some more questions after spending the weekend
reading.

First, I've narrowed the choices to a basic entry level field camera,
such as the Toyo CF, or a basic entry level view camera, such as the
Horseman LE (these are for examples but ones I intend to initially
look at). I can understand the recommendations about buying a used
camera, but I wonder if there's any advantages to buying a new one,
besides being the first user. I can see where you get the warranty,
service and support (company and store), and a complete working system
walking out the door.


My interests are for doing hiking nature/landscape photography (mostly
day hikes and eventually 2-3 day trips) and city/townscape and
documentary photography. I'm not concerned too much about weight
since I use a big backpack, but the view camera would have to fit into
that and under ~10 lbs (camera only). I also know I will eventually
probably have both a field and view camera (yes, I intend to stay at
it, it's my post-retirement work), but I'm interested in people's view
of the initial camera (second probably 2-3 years later), either the
field or view.


I'll second the suggestion of the Shen-Hao,
and kind words for the folks at Badger.
Having fun with mine.

You could certainly find lighter field
cameras than the Shen-Hao, but most
likely at several times the price. My
LF kit weighs 14 lbs on my back; the
Shen-Hao is 5 lbs of that.

The Shen-Hao HZ45 does not have shift,
but has all all other movements.

Second, after reading Jim Stone's "Users Guide to View Cameras", for
the most part he recommends staying with "modern" and later lenses.
I've initally (re)decided to go with a 90mm and 150mm f5.6 (used)
lenses, and a 210/240/270mm (used) lens f5.6/8 lens later. But after
reading the specifications for the choices, there still leaves a
variety of brand and model lenses. Jim pretty much suggests that the
lenses, although different in design, will do the job, and it's
personal choice of brand and model. Is that the case or did I misread
this?


I'll second Kerry Thalman's recommendation of
the Nikon SW 90/f8. It's a beauty. For the 150 mm,
check eBay - these are plentiful and cheap,
mint specimens of fine lenses for $200, easy.

Third, exposure. The books suggest I set the exposure for both the
film and the development (time and developer). Since I'll be using a
local lab for the development (eventually relearning film
development), should I focus on the film exposure and use "standard"
lab development? The book also suggest using the second in the film
holder as a duplicate or the bracket shot. How much does one bracket
a shot?



I shoot Portra and I don't bracket. With
chromes, bracketing would make more
sense I think.


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com

  #5  
Old June 22nd 04, 08:18 PM
Bruce
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Posts: n/a
Default Starting camera - Part III


I highly recommend the Shen Hao field camera at www.badgergraphics.com .
It is capable, sturdy and the price is right. In addition, the people at

Badger Graphics are great.

-Peter


I find myself in the same position as Scott Knowles and had pretty much decided
upon the Shen-Hao as a package deal from Badger Graphics which includes the
Nikon 150. Then I see Badgers Brand 4X5 for a couple hundred dollars less and
this package includes a Rodenstock 150. Without any experience with 4X5 I
wonder about the two lenses -- how would they be different?

One benefit I have found with either lens is with the purchase of a small
step-up ring I can use my 9 (55mm) B+W filters & polarizer that I use with 35mm
cameras.

I see nothing wrong in buying a camera based upon lens criteria but trying to
understand a lens's characteristics without using it is subjective and
argumentative and requires a leap of faith.

So, if any of you were to choose between the Nikon W f-5.6 @ $530 and the
Rodenstock APO-Sironar-N 150mm/5.6 @ $575, in terms of corner to corner
sharpness, contrast and resolution would you opt for one over the other?

The pictures that I have made that I like the best are made with with a Zeiss
Planar design. This represents the ultimate lens for me.
_________________
Ready, Fire, AIM.
Bruce
Brooklyn, N.Y.

  #6  
Old June 23rd 04, 11:48 PM
Ted Harris
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Default Starting camera - Part III

I use several longer Nikkors but do not like them as much as the Rodenstocks,
Schneiders and Fujis in the middle lengths (135-150-180-210). I have done
side-by-side comparisons of the 150 and 210 Apo Symmar, Nikkor and Rodenstock
Apo Sironar N. In the case of both focal lenghts there was virtualy no
difference in resolution between the three manufacturers, same for sharpness.
As for contrast, the Schneider and Rodenstock were just a bit more contrasty
than the Nikkor. These were emperical tests of real scenes not line per mm
tests, etc.


Ted Harris
Resource Strategy
Henniker, New Hampshire
 




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