Film life

Hi,
what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?
Will B&W film always be available?

I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers are
doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.

David

In article ,
"Michele Smith" wrote:

Hi,
what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?
Will B&W film always be available?

I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers are
doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.

David



I am confused, I thought you were Michele. This is a beaten to death topic.
Check the archives.

a) Which digital technology?
BW-as long as I can remember the formula of making my own
films and paper.

b) As long as there is money to be made. Stop worrying, buy film
or buy a digital camera, no one cares more than you.

--


website:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank

"Michele Smith" wrote in message
...
Hi,
what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?
Will B&W film always be available?

I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers
are
doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.

David

I can still buy super 8 movie film. I'm not worried about film going
away soon. Kodak predicts that film sales will slowly decline over the next
20 years or so. I expect my grandchildren to be able to buy film (and I
don't have any grandchildren now).

Michele Smith wrote:

Hi,
what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?

In sales, unit volume, or profits? Consider that much of the world still does
not have computers, but could be sold film and cheap cameras. Film is still
very high profit, especially when compared to any digital image technology.

Cheaper digital will be overtaken by mobile phone cameras within three years,
or less. The era of "wireless imaging" is upon us, and "digital photography"
will look obsolete very soon.


Will B&W film always be available?

Quite likely. The technology used for B/W film production is very similar to
technology used by commercial presses for printing. Since printing is a huge
world wide industry, and changes are slow and evolutionary, the technology and
equipment to make B/W photographic films should be easily available within your
lifetime.



I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers are
doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.

Olympus has pulled out of the film SLR market, basically because of lack of
profits do to competition. The current largest volume, and highest profits, are
from one time use (disposable) cameras. Also, about 1 out of 5 households in
the US have their primary camera as a disposable camera.

On the larger camera makers, such as medium format, and large format, these may
become more niche markets. There is little reason why roll films (120 and 220)
cannot be made, though I could imagine that those emulsions that do not sell as
well may be discontinued. It may also be a safe assumption that more companies
will be consolidated within larger firms, such as Hasselblad being acquired by
one of their largest distributors.

I did not even realize that Ricoh made cameras . . . I only thought they made
copiers. Kodak does quite a bit more than just film, though they recently
opened a new B/W film production facility, and in the last year have updated
many E6 (slide, transparency) films. Fuji has also released several newer E6
films within the last year. Considering that E6 sales are barely 10% of what
C41 (negative) films sell, that should give you some indication of each
companies commitments to film.

AGFA and Ilford also continue to make films, and even Polaroid has introduced
new films. Fuji also licenses Polaroid technology for instant films, and now
they are selling them in the US. While Polaroid is probably in the worst
position, the technology and patents they hold could be valuable to another
company . . . quite likely Fuji.



David

I would not be surprised to see APS films disappear, though even 110 film can
still be found at department stores. Kodachrome may also disappear, or become a
very different product, since it is special handling and processing.

Film is very mature technology, and little further development would net much
more profit. If Fuji introduces something new, then likely Kodak will do the
same. With AGFA, it may come less often, though they have made big strides into
the disposable camera market. Notice that recent news announcements mention
"consumer" films, and that "professional" films continue to be developed.

The bottom line is that profits drive products, not innovation. Technology does
not sell itself, and is often not user friendly (like the 12:00 blinking on
most peoples DVD and Video Players). With film, the old Kodak saying of "You
take the pictures, and we do the rest", still has quite a bit of appeal with
the average consumer.

Besides what I stated, there are endless threads of this discussion on some of
the other rec.photo news groups. However, don't take our words for it, just
check out the stock market and industry reports for Kodak and Fuji, and read
what each company is doing.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Alliance Graphique Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

35mm film will be with us for a long time, at least as long as it takes for
the movie industry to move to digital (not soon). 35mm one-time-use cameras
will be outselling 35mm roll film in about five years, maybe eight or ten.
APS film will be withdrawn from the market in a few more years, 110 probably
in a year, 120 and 220 within something like a decade or two, sheet films in
a decade, all of this being guesswork based on the rapidity with which
photographers are abandoning these formats, not a judgement on their
usefulness.

Black and white 35mm film manufacture can piggyback on color manufacture
(uses the same basic raw ingredients, formulations, and equipment) so expect
it to be around a long time, but only in a very few varieties from the major
manufacturers. If the former east-bloc factories can survive they will
continue to offer interesting and useful b/w films, and in more than 35mm,
for at least another decade, if not two. By then there will be no more film
cameras being manufactured except as exotic one-offs, luxury goods, or
nostalgia products. Nevertheless the millions of film cameras in use will
support a dwindling but still worthwhile market.

Special films will continue to be made for industrial and medical
radiography, lithography (including semiconductor masks) and microfilm, for
two or three more decades.

Before 2043 99% of imaging will be done with something other than film,
probably some evolutionary form of signal storage that overcomes the
crudeness of digital sampling.

DF

"Michele Smith" wrote in message
...
Hi,
what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?
Will B&W film always be available?

I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers
are
doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.

David

Minor correction. Kodak did not open a new plant to make black and white
film. They consolidated all of their black and white film production from
more than one plant into one, which is the one originally built to make
tabular films.

DF

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
Michele Smith wrote:

Hi,
what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?

In sales, unit volume, or profits? Consider that much of the world still
does
not have computers, but could be sold film and cheap cameras. Film is
still
very high profit, especially when compared to any digital image
technology.

Cheaper digital will be overtaken by mobile phone cameras within three
years,
or less. The era of "wireless imaging" is upon us, and "digital
photography"
will look obsolete very soon.


Will B&W film always be available?

Quite likely. The technology used for B/W film production is very similar
to
technology used by commercial presses for printing. Since printing is a
huge
world wide industry, and changes are slow and evolutionary, the technology
and
equipment to make B/W photographic films should be easily available within
your
lifetime.



I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers
are
doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.

Olympus has pulled out of the film SLR market, basically because of lack
of
profits do to competition. The current largest volume, and highest
profits, are
from one time use (disposable) cameras. Also, about 1 out of 5 households
in
the US have their primary camera as a disposable camera.

On the larger camera makers, such as medium format, and large format,
these may
become more niche markets. There is little reason why roll films (120 and
220)
cannot be made, though I could imagine that those emulsions that do not
sell as
well may be discontinued. It may also be a safe assumption that more
companies
will be consolidated within larger firms, such as Hasselblad being
acquired by
one of their largest distributors.

I did not even realize that Ricoh made cameras . . . I only thought they
made
copiers. Kodak does quite a bit more than just film, though they recently
opened a new B/W film production facility, and in the last year have
updated
many E6 (slide, transparency) films. Fuji has also released several newer
E6
films within the last year. Considering that E6 sales are barely 10% of
what
C41 (negative) films sell, that should give you some indication of each
companies commitments to film.

AGFA and Ilford also continue to make films, and even Polaroid has
introduced
new films. Fuji also licenses Polaroid technology for instant films, and
now
they are selling them in the US. While Polaroid is probably in the worst
position, the technology and patents they hold could be valuable to
another
company . . . quite likely Fuji.



David

I would not be surprised to see APS films disappear, though even 110 film
can
still be found at department stores. Kodachrome may also disappear, or
become a
very different product, since it is special handling and processing.

Film is very mature technology, and little further development would net
much
more profit. If Fuji introduces something new, then likely Kodak will do
the
same. With AGFA, it may come less often, though they have made big strides
into
the disposable camera market. Notice that recent news announcements
mention
"consumer" films, and that "professional" films continue to be developed.

The bottom line is that profits drive products, not innovation. Technology
does
not sell itself, and is often not user friendly (like the 12:00 blinking
on
most peoples DVD and Video Players). With film, the old Kodak saying of
"You
take the pictures, and we do the rest", still has quite a bit of appeal
with
the average consumer.

Besides what I stated, there are endless threads of this discussion on
some of
the other rec.photo news groups. However, don't take our words for it,
just
check out the stock market and industry reports for Kodak and Fuji, and
read
what each company is doing.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Alliance Graphique Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

The question is not "if"... it is "when"..
I hope it will take a long time, but I'm afraid it is wishfull thinking.

Regards

Victor




"Michele Smith" wrote in message
...
Hi,
what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?
Will B&W film always be available?

I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers
are
doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.

David

David Foy wrote:
: 35mm film will be with us for a long time, at least as long as it takes for
: the movie industry to move to digital (not soon). 35mm one-time-use cameras
: will be outselling 35mm roll film in about five years, maybe eight or ten.
: APS film will be withdrawn from the market in a few more years, 110 probably
: in a year, 120 and 220 within something like a decade or two, sheet films in
: a decade, all of this being guesswork based on the rapidity with which
: photographers are abandoning these formats, not a judgement on their
: usefulness.

I wonder about the coment about the 4x5 film. I was speaking to the sales manager
in the local Calumet and was told that new and used 4x5 cameras are gaining in
popularity and that film sales for 4x5 are increasing.

My hope is that over the last 30 years B&W film has turned into an art niche.
I'm also happy to see that B&W photography is gaining in popularity again.
It's the color films and color photography will be the first to be dropped.
The pros and consumers are moving quickly to digital for those.

: Black and white 35mm film manufacture can piggyback on color manufacture
: (uses the same basic raw ingredients, formulations, and equipment) so expect
: it to be around a long time, but only in a very few varieties from the major
: manufacturers. If the former east-bloc factories can survive they will
: continue to offer interesting and useful b/w films, and in more than 35mm,
: for at least another decade, if not two. By then there will be no more film
: cameras being manufactured except as exotic one-offs, luxury goods, or
: nostalgia products. Nevertheless the millions of film cameras in use will
: support a dwindling but still worthwhile market.

: Special films will continue to be made for industrial and medical
: radiography, lithography (including semiconductor masks) and microfilm, for
: two or three more decades.

: Before 2043 99% of imaging will be done with something other than film,
: probably some evolutionary form of signal storage that overcomes the
: crudeness of digital sampling.

: DF

: "Michele Smith" wrote in message
: ...
: Hi,
: what are the real chances of film being overtaken by digital technology?
: Will B&W film always be available?
:
: I hope it keeps going in all sizes but don't know what the manufacturers
: are
: doing. I hear that some companies such as Kodak and Richo will no longer
: make film camers or in Kodaks case, film.
:
: David
:
:



--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------

In article ,
Frank Pittel wrote:

I wonder about the coment about the 4x5 film. I was speaking to the sales manager
in the local Calumet and was told that new and used 4x5 cameras are gaining in
popularity and that film sales for 4x5 are increasing.

I tend to agree.


My hope is that over the last 30 years B&W film has turned into an art niche.
I'm also happy to see that B&W photography is gaining in popularity again.
It's the color films and color photography will be the first to be dropped.
The pros and consumers are moving quickly to digital for those.

Not all of us moving quickly, I have a wait and see attitude.
As in wait to see where price and quality are going to end up.

--


website:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank

Gregory W. Blank wrote:
: In article ,
: Frank Pittel wrote:
:
: I wonder about the coment about the 4x5 film. I was speaking to the sales manager
: in the local Calumet and was told that new and used 4x5 cameras are gaining in
: popularity and that film sales for 4x5 are increasing.

: I tend to agree.

As a minor refinement on the above, a lot of the renewed interest in 4x5 is from
the amateur market. The most exciting part was when I was there in spring looking
to get a couple of boxes of Tmax in readyloads. Everywhere I tried was out and
nobody knew when they would get more. The same salesperson told me that Kodak
mis-estimated the demand and that it was selling faster then they could make and
ship the film!! He went on to tell me that Calumet had a standing order for as
much film as they could get as often as the could get it and they had a waiting
list of people with orders for it!!

Even now it's in short supply. Last month before a photo outing for a LF group
I'm a member of here in the midwest I went to Calumet and bought a couple of boxes.
Another member was there a day later and they were out. I had bought the last two
boxes they had. It was a week before they got more. At least for now at Calumet
photo 4x5 film of all types are selling welling and in fact their sales are
increasing. Things are looking good for now.

Even when Polaroid was in trouble a couple of years ago and I was worried about the
possible loss of 4x5 polaroids I met a person that at the time worked for Polaroid
and was told that the 4x5 polaroid of all types were a high profit cash cow for
Polaroid and companies (he had an idea which ones but couldn't tell me who) were
interested in buying the division making the 4x5 film.(?)

:
: My hope is that over the last 30 years B&W film has turned into an art niche.
: I'm also happy to see that B&W photography is gaining in popularity again.
: It's the color films and color photography will be the first to be dropped.
: The pros and consumers are moving quickly to digital for those.

: Not all of us moving quickly, I have a wait and see attitude.
: As in wait to see where price and quality are going to end up.

I bought a digital point and shoot last summer and it's served me well. It wasn't
the latest and greatest even then and it's since been discontinued but it does
what I bought it to do and that's still all I want it to do. :-) Of course as
a rank amateur I don't have the time pressure a lot of pros have.

I am considering buying a scanner capable of scanning 4x5 negatives and printer.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------