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#11
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
On May 21, 10:25 pm, ray wrote:
On Mon, 21 May 2007 12:56:58 -0700, C J Campbell wrote: On 2007-05-20 22:47:10 -0700, said: This question perhaps relates to my other question about long term camera tests. If someone gives you money to buy a camera, say for $800, and you are just an average camera user (not a pro), no action shots, just want to get good quality, sharp pictures, what would you do? - buy a regular $200 cameras, and use it for a year (or two) and then keep buying a new one after 3000-5000 shots. You can get up to 4 brand new cameras @ $200 a piece. - or buy a more expensive camera to meet the budget, and hope and pray that it will last for years to come and many thousand pictures. Cameras go obsolete after 18 months. Yeah - so? That does not mean they stop working. If they still fullfill your needs, what's the problem? snip Quite. I have a Canon Powershot A70, 3.2 megapixels, and I still use it. Apart from a low pixel count, it's a great camera - good lens (possibly the most important component), great viewfinder, easy to use and the results are good. A more up-to-date camera isn't necesarily better, as I found out when I brought a Fuji S5600. |
#12
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
Message-ID: Gsu4i.2124$ky6.2081@trnddc02 from Wayne contained the
following: It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still should do everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still quite happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3 or 4 megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print 8x10 inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you need more, you should buy more. I've enlarged 6.1 megapixels very successfully to 20 x 16.(Nikon D70) In fact, the resolution of the lens becomes apparent before pixels are noticeable so if you need more pixels, you also need better lenses -- Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email) It's only Usenet, no one dies. My opinions, not the committee's, mine. Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/ |
#13
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
"Geoff Berrow" wrote in message ... Message-ID: Gsu4i.2124$ky6.2081@trnddc02 from Wayne contained the following: It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still should do everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still quite happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3 or 4 megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print 8x10 inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you need more, you should buy more. I've enlarged 6.1 megapixels very successfully to 20 x 16.(Nikon D70) In fact, the resolution of the lens becomes apparent before pixels are noticeable so if you need more pixels, you also need better lenses -- ....and it has to be said that the 18-70mm zoom provided as standard with the D70 is one of the best lenses on the market. Says an awful lot about digital quality. -- Woody (a very satisfied D70s owner) harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com |
#14
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
"Cats" wrote in message oups.com... On May 21, 10:25 pm, ray wrote: On Mon, 21 May 2007 12:56:58 -0700, C J Campbell wrote: On 2007-05-20 22:47:10 -0700, said: This question perhaps relates to my other question about long term camera tests. If someone gives you money to buy a camera, say for $800, and you are just an average camera user (not a pro), no action shots, just want to get good quality, sharp pictures, what would you do? - buy a regular $200 cameras, and use it for a year (or two) and then keep buying a new one after 3000-5000 shots. You can get up to 4 brand new cameras @ $200 a piece. - or buy a more expensive camera to meet the budget, and hope and pray that it will last for years to come and many thousand pictures. Cameras go obsolete after 18 months. Yeah - so? That does not mean they stop working. If they still fullfill your needs, what's the problem? snip Quite. I have a Canon Powershot A70, 3.2 megapixels, and I still use it. Apart from a low pixel count, it's a great camera - good lens (possibly the most important component), great viewfinder, easy to use and the results are good. A more up-to-date camera isn't necesarily better, as I found out when I brought a Fuji S5600. 3Mp on a compact at full frame is perfectly good for enlargement to A4 (297x210mm for our friends over the pond,) 5Mp in a compact is as much as most people need as above that sensor noise (mainly thermal) starts to become an issue. The larger pixels and cell on a DSLR mean that a 2Mp DSLR like the early Nikons will usually knock spots off any picture taken on a compact under about 5Mp. Get a 6Mp DSLR and you're laughing. You know, whenever I see something about the race for pixels it always brings back to mind that famous and similarly related statement years ago by Uncle Bill Gates:- "640K of memory is enough for anyone." Says it all really.................... -- Woody harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com |
#15
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
"harrogate3" wrote in message ... You know, whenever I see something about the race for pixels it always brings back to mind that famous and similarly related statement years ago by Uncle Bill Gates:- "640K of memory is enough for anyone." Says it all really.................... It was true at the time. Inefficient languages had yet to be developed. The same can't be said for digital cameras where there is an existing technology that does the job. However many DSLRs and a few P&S cameras will do images as good as most 35mm film cameras these days. I treat them like computers myself.. just buy last years model when they are selling them cheap. The new ones tend not to have many real improvements. The current fashion for IS is making all the older ones very cheap at the moment and we have done without IS for the last 100 years. |
#16
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
On May 21, 6:37 pm, Wayne wrote:
Plenty of inexpensive P&S cameras with manual overrides and zooms are available that take great pictures. If you are a average/casual user it doesn't make sense to spend the extra money to purchase a DSLR today only to become the not so latest and greatest tomorrow. That is unless you want to impress your neighbors. I don't believe this is true at all. It may not be true for all, but it is obviously true for most. We don't choose between a low end and a high end camera for any of the reasons that have been stated. It is certainly not because the low end "picture lacks sharpness and contrast, has poor color, and is generally disappointing." Obviously false, the $200 point&shoots are pretty amazing. Perhaps not so versatile in A mode, but capable. If all we will ever use is the Auto A mode, then it is versatile enough for us. It is not because of life expectency before it wears out. Shouldnt be a problem, especially not for a less serious photographer using it less. It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still should do everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still quite happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3 or 4 megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print 8x10 inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you need more, you should buy more. The reason to choose higher price is to get more features and options, presumably because we expect to use them. It is of course wasted if you wont use them, at least now and then. Interchangeable lens is the biggest option, which requires a DSLR. Many see this as essential, but most others dont even know what it is. Most have no concept of photography except "this button turns it on, and this button is the shutter". And it works for them. But if you want and need features, then you buy features. Even in DSLR, there is low end and high end. Differences are still about features. What will the camera do? More experienced photographers will use more of those options, and less experienced photographers will not. The camera features will not do it for you. Those people that instead always leave it in A Auto mode dont need much in features. I have to take issue with this, the advantage of a higher end DSLR is not mainly about features but performance, works in lower light, faster auto-focus, faster shot to shot time, better looking photos etc. In fact it seems to be the small point and shoot cameras that are loaded with features. If all someone wants is a small point and shoot that is fine, but if someone is thinking about a DSLR they should be aware that there is much more to a DSLR then just more features. Scott |
#17
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
On Tue, 22 May 2007 10:25:59 GMT, harrogate3 wrote:
3Mp on a compact at full frame is perfectly good for enlargement to A4 (297x210mm for our friends over the pond,) 5Mp in a compact is as much as most people need as above that sensor noise (mainly thermal) starts to become an issue. Your friends across the pond (not all) may be more familiar with A4 than metric measurements. They realize that A4 is just slightly taller and narrower than the standard paper size used for eons in typewriters and printers, i.e., 8½" x 11", which is just a bit larger than the common 8"x10" photo paper size. As to the rest, I completely agree. With a bunch of cameras that have sensors ranging from 3mp to 8mp, all are capable of providing sufficient resolution for the great majority of my photos, and the one I use is usually determined by convenience, often the 4mp Fuji P&S. The 3mp Canon Powershot is just too limited in features (nothing but full Auto mode, and poor battery life). The larger pixels and cell on a DSLR mean that a 2Mp DSLR like the early Nikons will usually knock spots off any picture taken on a compact under about 5Mp. Get a 6Mp DSLR and you're laughing. g (6mp D50!) |
#18
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
On May 21, 6:37 pm, Wayne wrote:
Plenty of inexpensive P&S cameras with manual overrides and zooms are available that take great pictures. If you are a average/casual user it doesn't make sense to spend the extra money to purchase a DSLR today only to become the not so latest and greatest tomorrow. That is unless you want to impress your neighbors. I don't believe this is true at all. It may not be true for all, but it is obviously true for most. We don't choose between a low end and a high end camera for any of the reasons that have been stated. It is certainly not because the low end "picture lacks sharpness and contrast, has poor color, and is generally disappointing." Obviously false, the $200 point&shoots are pretty amazing. Perhaps not so versatile in A mode, but capable. If all we will ever use is the Auto A mode, then it is versatile enough for us. It is not because of life expectency before it wears out. Shouldnt be a problem, especially not for a less serious photographer using it less. It is not because it may become obsolete, any will, but it still should do everything in ten years that it does now. We all know people still quite happy with 1 or 2 megapixels because they never print anything. 3 or 4 megapixels will print 4x6 inches, and 6 or 8 megapixels will print 8x10 inches. Few of us have any use for more megapixels. But if you need more, you should buy more. The reason to choose higher price is to get more features and options, presumably because we expect to use them. It is of course wasted if you wont use them, at least now and then. Interchangeable lens is the biggest option, which requires a DSLR. Many see this as essential, but most others dont even know what it is. Most have no concept of photography except "this button turns it on, and this button is the shutter". And it works for them. But if you want and need features, then you buy features. Even in DSLR, there is low end and high end. Differences are still about features. What will the camera do? More experienced photographers will use more of those options, and less experienced photographers will not. The camera features will not do it for you. Those people that instead always leave it in A Auto mode dont need much in features. I have to take issue with this, the advantage of a higher end DSLR is not mainly about features but performance, works in lower light, faster auto-focus, faster shot to shot time, better looking photos etc. In fact it seems to be the small point and shoot cameras that are loaded with features. If all someone wants is a small point and shoot that is fine, but if someone is thinking about a DSLR they should be aware that there is much more to a DSLR then just more features. Scott |
#19
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
Scott W wrote:
On May 21, 6:37 pm, Wayne wrote: Plenty of inexpensive P&S cameras with manual overrides and zooms are available that take great pictures. If you are a average/casual user it doesn't make sense to spend the extra money to purchase a DSLR today only to become the not so latest and greatest tomorrow. That is unless you want to impress your neighbors. I don't believe this is true at all. Nobody seems to have responded with the reason many of us don't buy DSLRs: we buy what we can afford. I would love to have a DSLR with a collection of lenses and accessories, but I get along with my S3 IS. When medical expenses go down, gasoline goes down etc I will get a DSLR. But in the meantime I enjoy what I have. Allen |
#20
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Buying digital cameras - basic vs high end camera
"dennis@home" wrote in message ... "harrogate3" wrote in message ... You know, whenever I see something about the race for pixels it always brings back to mind that famous and similarly related statement years ago by Uncle Bill Gates:- "640K of memory is enough for anyone." Says it all really.................... It was true at the time. Inefficient languages had yet to be developed. The same can't be said for digital cameras where there is an existing technology that does the job. However many DSLRs and a few P&S cameras will do images as good as most 35mm film cameras these days. I treat them like computers myself.. just buy last years model when they are selling them cheap. The new ones tend not to have many real improvements. The current fashion for IS is making all the older ones very cheap at the moment and we have done without IS for the last 100 years. Ah but the difference is automation. In our film camera days - especially SLRs - we all knew the reciprocity rule: never use a long lens at less that the equivalent in focal length, i,e, a 200mm lens had to be used at 1/200th second or faster to avoid shake. The modern digicam is made for Mr/Ms/Mrs average who not only know nothing about shutter speed and aperture, few know more than switching the beast on and off and pressing the shutter button. To them IS is a surety of a good picture every time irrespective of lighting conditions - what is more it also saves the manufacturer's name making the user more likely to buy the same make again. The trouble is nine times out of ten the camera knows better than the user in terms of exposure and (usually) focus - it frightens me to think of the number of shots I have lost when I have overridden the machine! -- Woody harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com |
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